Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MystErikEry 07-23-05, 07:16 PM	I'm not really used to 3.0, but I'm going to be in a 3.0 campaign soon. I am considering going for rogue/sorcerer/arcane trickster, and would really like to take advantage of sneak attack. Cone of Cold Ray of Frost (1d3, ranged touch attack, one target) is nice for a 0-level spell, since that's 1d3 + Xd6 damage for just a ranged touch attack. My personal favorite in 3.5 is Scorching Ray (although I guess that's everyone's favorite spell). It can do 4d6 + Xd6 damage up to four times. Consider that at Level 19, I have 7d6 sneak attack, and you're getting 11d6 four times (or 44d6) for a second-level spell. That's just a ranged touch attack. And I have excellent Dex. However, it seems Scorching Ray didn't exist until 3.5, so I'm wondering what other spells are good to go with a sneak attacker. Eneveration seems decent (1d4 negative levels + Xd6 negative energy damage), but it seems like there aren't any ranged touch attack spells that fire more than one ray (which would really help the sneak attack damage stack up). I might be better off just throwing daggers! Does anyone have any ideas? ^_^ Hopefully these are all things my DM would have access to, if outside of 3.0 core (although if Scorching Ray exists in something like Tome & Blood, that would likely do, considering that's where Arcane Trickster is from!)...
CryoSilver 07-23-05, 07:26 PM	The lesser orb spells first appeared in Tome and Blood, if I'm not mistaken and make nice choices.
DungeonMaster 07-23-05, 09:05 PM	Flame arrow is very nearly the equivalent of scorching ray (with the exception of how energy resistance is handled in both editions). Telekinesis, melf's acid arrow and touch spells like shocking grasp are good options as well.
Osedox 07-23-05, 09:32 PM	Ray of Frost is the 0 level spell Cone of cold is a 5th level You would only apply the sneak attack damage to one ray for Scorching ray unless it is different in 3.0
DungeonMaster 07-23-05, 09:37 PM	Cone of cold wouldn't get sneak attack damage. You need an attack roll. On the other hand Otiluke's freezing sphere ray version might be what you were thinking of.
MystErikEry 07-23-05, 09:40 PM	Sorry; I got the names mixed up. Ray of Frost is what I meant, which does have an attack roll (it's.. a ray), and not Cone of Cold (which is Level 9, anyway, and hardly useful for Sneak Attack :P ).
Vallah 07-23-05, 09:43 PM	cone of cold is 5th level, Polar ray is 8th, and ray of frost is a cantrip. I have had days like this too ;)
MystErikEry 07-23-05, 09:46 PM	Oh, right, Polar Ray is the 9th one. Still :P You would only apply the sneak attack damage to one ray for Scorching ray unless it is different in 3.0 Really? Where does it say that? I was under the impression that, as long as every attack you made in a round still qualified for Sneak Attack damage, you'd get Sneak Attack damage. For example, if you were Invisible (not the superior version), and made a Full Attack action, only the first attack would apply Sneak Attack damage (since, after that, the remaining attacks no longer qualify - your opponent is no longer denied their Dex bonus to AC). However, I'm pretty sure that if you were permanently (or at least throughout an attack) invisible, all of your attacks would apply Sneak Attack damage. This should hold true for spells, as well, unless there's something that says otherwise... :/ I haven't noticed such. At the very least, you should be able to apply the sneak attack damage to other targets (if you target different creatures with different bolts)... Also, Flame Arrow is Level 3, and has a Reflex save for half (although, I suppose this save wouldn't halve the Sneak Attack daamge, would it?)... Oh, I see now. It counts as a volley: "With spell effects that allow you to make multiple attack rolls, such as the energy orb spells or the Split Ray feat from Tome and Blood, you must treat the effect like a volley -- only the first attack can be a sneak attack." (ie similar to Manyshot). However, what about when it can hit multiple enemies? Does the first attack against each enemy get Sneak Attack damage (if applicable) or only one of them?
Osedox 07-23-05, 10:00 PM	I am using the Complete Arcane which is a 3.5 book and it has a description on page #86 that explicitly states that when using a spell to make a sneak attack that affects multiple targets (it uses Scorching Ray as an example), sneak attack damage only applies to one target. However I havent played 3rd edition since 3.5 came out so I am not sure if this still applys because so many things got nerfed in the switch. Also are you sure Scorching ray is a 3rd edition spell I thought it was new to 3.5?
MystErikEry 07-23-05, 10:04 PM	Oh, okay. It only applies to one, then. Scorching Ray is a 3.5 spell - that's why I'm sad about it not being in 3.0 ;) It's too bad I can't get 88d6 damage from Scorching Ray, though ;) Still, 18d6 is nice...
Osedox 07-23-05, 10:10 PM	Sorry I didn't mean to ruin it for you but your Character Idea is my favorite also I find that Enervation is one of the best spells and Lesser Orb of Cold(3.5) is also good, and also Ray of Frost is good because it is only a Cantrip but with +5d6 sneak attack damage it is the best Cantrip i have ever heard of! sorry again
MystErikEry 07-23-05, 10:20 PM	Oh, no. Nothing is ruined. ^_^ I'm considering creating my character with thematic cold-damage spells. Ray of Frost would be one, and I'm considering making some new Level 1 or 2 spells that require Touch or Ranged Touch attacks, such as a Freezing Ray (1d6 per two caster levels, up to 5d6) or something like that. Actually, how does this sound: Freezing Ray Evocation [Cold] Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 action Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft./2 levels) Effect: Ray Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A ray of powerful freezing air projects from your hand. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack with the ray to deal damage to a target. The ray deals 1d6 points of cold damage, plus 1d6 for every two caster levels after first to a maximum of 5d6 damage at Level 11.
Osedox 07-23-05, 10:35 PM	Yea sounds great it is just like a Evocation version of the Lesser Orb spells
gninja 07-26-05, 04:25 PM	Vampiric Touch. Best sneak attack spell.
tarkin 07-26-05, 04:35 PM	First of all, The Precision Damage rule applied in both 3.0 and in 3.5 That means that no matter how many attacks a Scorching Ray or Orb spells give you, you just get the Sneak Attack Damage once. (I.E. If you sneak attack for 5d6 and use Scorchign Ray for 3 attacks, you get 4d6 x3 + 5d6, not4d6 + 5d6 x 3) Second of all, Sneak attack can ONLY do damage, it can not do anything else. It can't do ability damage, it can't do Level Damage, and no, it can't heal you via Vampiric Touch. When you use Enervation and Sneak Attack, you do 1d4 of level damage plus an additional 5d6 of hitpoint damage, not level damage. It ignores what the spell says and just adds some extra hitpoint damage for being in a vunerable place. Similarly, that means that when you use Vampiric Touch, it also ignores what the spell says and just adds some extra hitpoint damage, without healing you. This is a Sage Advice ruling, as well as being the only reasonable, balanced interpretation. (Also, logically, the fact that you apllied the damage to a vunerable space and therefore it was more effective could not heal you more, as healing ALWAYS goes to the most effective place.) You may of course House Rule to your hearts's content, but don't be surprised if official WoTC judges (Living City/Gen Con) laugh at you for trying Vampiric Touch with Sneak Attack, or other such nonsense. And certainly don't be surprised of your DM refuses to let you do it. I obviously would not.
gninja 07-26-05, 05:12 PM	I wasn't attempting to imply that the sneak attack damage would heal you, though I should know to be very precise in forum posts by now. But anything that heals you a decent amount -and- hurts them a lot, is a great thing in my book.