Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shaga 12-30-03, 07:24 PM	Is there any way (feat or prestige class) i can cast summon I in less than a round so my monster can play faster????:confused:
Seeker95 12-30-03, 07:30 PM	Pssst! Check out quicken spell in the Metamagic Feats.
Jaerom Darkwind 12-30-03, 10:30 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 Pssst! Check out quicken spell in the Metamagic Feats. You can't quicken spells with casting times of more than 1 standard action.
Bloodtide_the_Red 12-31-03, 02:09 AM	I don't think there is anything that can speed up the one round casting time of the summon spells. You can summon up the monster before you need it and (after communicating with it) have it follow you. Extend spell works nicely here..... BT
Seeker95 12-31-03, 09:47 AM	Originally posted by Jaerom Darkwind You can't quicken spells with casting times of more than 1 standard action. Doesn't it say you can't quicken spells that take more than a round to cast. (I have my books at home and I am at work. I'll double check when I return home.)
Everach 12-31-03, 09:52 AM	According to Sage Advise, summoned monsters appear when you start casting the spell. You're busy finishing the spell until your next turn, however. To answer your initial question, use a contingency spell.
Rancorpit 12-31-03, 10:06 AM	You might want to check these for a start: Arcane Summoner (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79547) Summoner (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123864) Summoner Specialist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109455) Summoner (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48684)
Atrehen 12-31-03, 01:22 PM	Summon nature's ally is very powerful. Especially at mid levels are the critters you summon almost tougher than a single person of your own party. Dire wolf at lvl 5. Most players will have a tough time soloing such a beast at level 5, not mentioning the 1d3 Griffons. Even 1 griffon is a good match for a level 5 ;) Casting time of 1 standard action would imho imbalance it. I just cast it on the defensive. With max ranks in concentration you have like a 80% to succeed.
Evil's Pawn 12-31-03, 04:05 PM	According to the text for Quicken spell: "A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full-round action cannot be quickened." To me that sounds like you could quicken a summon spell.
Seeker95 12-31-03, 05:13 PM	Originally posted by Evil's Pawn According to the text for Quicken spell: "A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full-round action cannot be quickened." To me that sounds like you could quicken a summon spell. Correct. Further, on page 174 of the 3.5 PHB, (Under CASTING TIME) it notes that a spell that takes one round to cast is a full-round action.
Jaerom Darkwind 12-31-03, 05:13 PM	Originally posted by Evil's Pawn According to the text for Quicken spell: "A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full-round action cannot be quickened." To me that sounds like you could quicken a summon spell. Actually, summon monster x has a casting time of 1 round, not 1 full-round action. An example of 1 full-round action is a Whirlwind Attack. It starts and finishes on your initiative. A spell with a casting time with 1-round takes a lot longer, and starts on your action in one round, continues casting during all of the actions that follow, finally finishing on your action the next round. Which is why the original poster wants to cast it faster-- to avoid all of the attacks that could screw up the casting process.
Seeker95 12-31-03, 05:19 PM	Originally posted by Jaerom Darkwind Actually, summon monster x has a casting time of 1 round, not 1 full-round action. our post went up the same time as mine. On page 174 of the 3.5 PHB, (Under CASTING TIME) it says that a spell that takes one round to cast is a full-round action.
Bloodtide_the_Red 01-01-04, 03:11 AM	No, you can't. A casting time of one round requires you to take a full round action. So does a casting time of one minute. But in both cases, the casting of the spell extends beyond that full round action. Summon Monster's casting time is "longer than one full round action".(because it extends into the next round). Incidentally, in 3E, you could Quicken a Summon spell, since Quicken could be used on any spell whose casting time was not longer than one full round. The language of the feat changed in 3.5. And in case you're not convinced, I'll quote from the Main 3.5 FAQ, p8: Any full-round action takes place entirely during the acting character’s turn. That is, the action begins and ends during the acting character’s turn in the initiative order. Though taking a full-round action leaves you no time to move (except, possibly, a 5-foot step) it does not continue into the next round in the same way a spell with a casting time of 1 round does. A full-round action is quicker than a 1-round casting time. Though I did find two ways. In the froggoten realms their are the feats Inscribe Rune and Attune Gem. They both allow you to put a spell in something and trigger them with just a touch. BT
Snow Savant 01-01-04, 03:25 AM	Bloodtide is correct. You cannot quicken a Summon Monster spell. In fact, if it was legal, doing so would be a rather sub-optimal tactic in and of itself. Besides Attune Gem and Inscribe Rune, a level of Candle Caster will allow you to make Candles with Summon Monster spells activated in 1 standard action. For what that is worth to you. The smartest way to get Summon Monster spells out as fast as possible is to combo them with smart usage of divination spells. If you can use divination spells like Clairvoyance, Detect Thoughts, Scry, & Prying Eyes, you can get a heads up on enemy creature types in locations you are about to enter. Summon those monsters 1 round prior to entering those locations (and summon the types that best deal with the foes at hand), so you can go in fully buffed (with appropriate spells) and with extra minions on hand. Be sure to summon monsters with good auxiliary spellcasting capability (healing, buffs, etc.) as well. You'll get double utility out of them this way. XO, Snow :)
shaga 01-03-04, 08:28 AM	thanks all for your help. :)