Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 03-30-07, 12:58 AM	Is there any way for a Beguiler to learn Shivering touch without multiclassing? if not, what spells that do ability damage without a saving throw is there available that a beguiler can learn?
1hitparry 03-30-07, 01:01 AM	Unless I'm thinking of the wrong spell, Shivering Touch is stupid good. In which case, you might want to think of other spells instead. It's cool to have a powerful character, but a character that kills gods with a sneeze is not fun.
FrostHammer 03-30-07, 01:15 AM	Lowering someone's dex to 1 is good, but it won't kill a God...
CantripN 03-30-07, 03:38 AM	Lowering someone's dex to 1 is good, but it won't kill a God... Ah, but you see, it does DEX DAMAGE, not penalty...
runestar 03-30-07, 07:55 AM	Which is why it is so feared by dragons without access to the spell immunity spell...:P
Merestil Haye 03-30-07, 09:03 AM	Beguilers automatically know any spell on their standard class list that they are of a level to cast. These are primarily Illusion or Enchantment spells, although there appear to be a fair number of divinations, which is good. The only in-class way for a Beguiler to learn additional spells is their Advanced Learning class feature. You have five shots at this. If Shivering Touch is one of the two schools you can choose a spell from, and of a level you can choose, you can do this. (It probably is not either of your available spell schools). In PHB2 they present Eclectic Learning, an alternative class feature for the Warmage who wishes to do something other than blow stuff up every now and again. Perhaps your DM would be amenable to allowing that alternative for the Beguiler too. In which case, you could take the spell, but probably not until midlevels. (You would need to be able to cast 4th level spells, and that is what it would be for you. I might be amenable to these arguments, but then I would houserule that Shivering Touch imposes a penalty rather than deals damage so the spell isn't as good as recent threads might suggest.
Saxis 03-30-07, 12:33 PM	They get Touch of Idiocy, which is a great animal killer. Things with only 1-3 Intelligence usually end up standing there drooling after you cast this. It's just ability penalty though, not damage. Don't know of a way to add Shivering Touch though, unless there's a way to get it through Arcane Disciple or something?
Fabius Maximus 03-30-07, 12:44 PM	The only in-class way for a Beguiler to learn additional spells is their Advanced Learning class feature. You have five shots at this. If Shivering Touch is one of the two schools you can choose a spell from, and of a level you can choose, you can do this. (It probably is not either of your available spell schools). Shivering Touch should be from the necromancy school, so no luck there.
FrostHammer 03-30-07, 01:59 PM	So Shivering Touch *can* reduce a target's dex to 0? holy moly. Are there any spells like that that a beguiler can learn? I'm primarily looking for ways to lower enemy Will saves. Ming Fog allows a will save, which kind of defeats the purpose.
jaelis 03-30-07, 03:50 PM	They get Touch of Idiocy, which is a great animal killer. Things with only 1-3 Intelligence usually end up standing there drooling after you cast this. Why? It can't reduce the score below 1, so a creature with Int 1 wouldn't be affected at all. And a creature with Int 3 probably wouldn't play much differently.
DarkRhystar 03-31-07, 12:40 AM	Why? It can't reduce the score below 1, so a creature with Int 1 wouldn't be affected at all. And a creature with Int 3 probably wouldn't play much differently. Ray of Stupidity, on the other hand, will do the trick. It's enchantment so it's available to the Beguiler via Advanced Learning.
Lotus Crane 03-31-07, 03:38 AM	Beguilers have Use Magic Device as a class skill. Just buy a wand of shivering touch.