Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nova Fujit 04-01-06, 10:12 PM	After looking over the ability I noticed something... it has no mention of weither it is affected by spell resistance... thoughts?
Seeker of Undeath 04-01-06, 10:15 PM	You didn't notice that it's labled (Su) for supernatural ability. Look up supernatural ability in your PHB or Monster Manual.
Nova Fujit 04-01-06, 10:19 PM	Thank you much that answered my question.
ClementWillowbreaker 04-01-06, 10:54 PM	Wow, I never really noticed it was Supernatural...maybe it doesn't suck entirely...
Votan 04-02-06, 01:07 AM	Wow, I never really noticed it was Supernatural...maybe it doesn't suck entirely... I find it very useful for a sorcerer. The damage is low but it goes through nearly everything and most other classes can do damage. With 5 levels of archmage the sorcerer can do decent damage with a high level spell and it kind of makes it possible to focus spell choices at high levels on other spells as this covers damage well.
The_WhiteRabbit 04-02-06, 01:11 AM	I believe it's possible to come up with an arcane trickster build that gets quite a bit of sneak attack with it. I haven't really worked it out with 3.5, but I'm sure it can still be done.
runestar 04-02-06, 03:18 AM	Actually, I find it more economical to sac low lv slots(cantrips, especially) to it, since IMO, the damage output of spells utilising higher lv slots are far superior, like prismatic spray, horrid wilting or meteor swarm.
The Simbul 04-02-06, 04:17 AM	I find it very useful for a sorcerer. The damage is low but it goes through nearly everything and most other classes can do damage. With 5 levels of archmage the sorcerer can do decent damage with a high level spell and it kind of makes it possible to focus spell choices at high levels on other spells as this covers damage well.Its actually very good for a Wizard as well. When a Cleric or Druid makes a bad choice in preparing spells or doesnt have anything left to deal with a specific threat or encounter, they can almost always convert it into something useful via spontaneous conversion into cure/inflict/summon nature's ally spells. When a Wizard makes a bad choice in preparing spells or doesnt have anything left to deal with a specific threat or encounter, then they are in serious trouble. Arcane Fire alleviates this issue, allowing you to dump less useful or utilitarian spells into something that will be more viable in combat. Its also quite nice for killing Golems, at least the non-epic ones.
Votan 04-02-06, 12:38 PM	Its actually very good for a Wizard as well. When a Cleric or Druid makes a bad choice in preparing spells or doesnt have anything left to deal with a specific threat or encounter, they can almost always convert it into something useful via spontaneous conversion into cure/inflict/summon nature's ally spells. When a Wizard makes a bad choice in preparing spells or doesnt have anything left to deal with a specific threat or encounter, then they are in serious trouble. Arcane Fire alleviates this issue, allowing you to dump less useful or utilitarian spells into something that will be more viable in combat. Its also quite nice for killing Golems, at least the non-epic ones. Point taken. In the Forgotten Realms, during the return of the Archwizards (which I later realzied was 2E), I kept wondering why the primary villians (who were immune to magic spells but not silver fire) were not slaughtered by Elf Archmagi using arcane fire. :) Anyway, the pain with a wizard is losing a ninth level slot -- as slots drive both power and felxibility for a wizard. With a sorcerer, it seems like a no brainer that, if you qualify for the class, this is something to pick up. With a wizard, I'd actually think about it (but probably do it as well) . . .
Osedox 04-02-06, 04:59 PM	Wow, I never really noticed it was Supernatural...maybe it doesn't suck entirely... i believe you are mistaken it does suck. as far as a spell burning supernatural attack Draconic Breath is way better, 1) it is a feat so you can get it without becoming an archturd, 2) it does 2d6/spell level sacrificed so lets see a 20sor w/ DB sacrificing a 9th level slot does 18d6 to everything in a 30ftcone/60ftline(and if they get enervating breath 2d4 negative levels to everything too, or breath weapon admixture do 36d6 two-type energy), a 15sor/5acm w/ arcanefire does 14d6 to one guy who is really far away, 3) the other archmage abilities are more useful, 4) **pointless rant**, 5) *unintelligable muttering* However, i'll be the last person to completely condem something just becasue it is underpowered. I play based on flavor and prefer things that way, it just hurts to have to sacrifice several feats, not to mention spell slots for a substandard attack. Perhaps if it did 2d6/level or 1d12 it would be more plausible, because at those levels you are wasting your time if you are doing less than 20ishd6 a round for a direct damage attack.
Votan 04-02-06, 05:55 PM	i believe you are mistaken it does suck. as far as a spell burning supernatural attack Draconic Breath is way better, 1) it is a feat so you can get it without becoming an archturd, 2) it does 2d6/spell level sacrificed so lets see a 20sor w/ DB sacrificing a 9th level slot does 18d6 to everything in a 30ftcone/60ftline(and if they get enervating breath 2d4 negative levels to everything too, or breath weapon admixture do 36d6 two-type energy), a 15sor/5acm w/ arcanefire does 14d6 to one guy who is really far away, 3) the other archmage abilities are more useful, 4) **pointless rant**, 5) *unintelligable muttering* However, i'll be the last person to completely condem something just becasue it is underpowered. I play based on flavor and prefer things that way, it just hurts to have to sacrifice several feats, not to mention spell slots for a substandard attack. Perhaps if it did 2d6/level or 1d12 it would be more plausible, because at those levels you are wasting your time if you are doing less than 20ishd6 a round for a direct damage attack. It's not amazing in terms of damage -- what it does give is felxibiltiy and reliability. Begin with the amazing range (400 ft + 40 ft/level) and note that it is a rangwed touch attack. The untyped damage (no DR, no energy resistence). It does less damage than dranonic breath but this feat has a type, a much short range and a saving throw (reflex so evasion works). It's not that Draconic breath is bad (it sure as heck is not) but that arcane fire does things differently. Also, if you are going into archmage you are almsot certainly picking up other extra abilities (the spell like ability can be used along with spell swap in 3.5 for extra eefectvie spells known), arcane reach is fun as is mastery of shaping . . . It's a cost and a different way to do things. Draconic breaht does it with 2 feats (one of which I tend to want to be Red Dragon heritigage because of the skill) and you will have a hard tiem reaching Draconic legacy (the real prize) and still affording feats to enhance the breath werapon. All of that being said, I'd never argue that it was a bad way to go -- just that the archmage option doesn't suck for the sorcerer who was going that way anyway.