Arcane Preparation + Heighten Spell + Sublime Chord = all spells 0-3? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Preparation + Heighten Spell + Sublime Chord = all spells 0-3? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
risner
11-06-07, 11:08 AM Say you have Sublime Chord with a limited spell list from your only other arcane class in spell levels 0-3 and you take Sand Shaper (or some other "gimme lots of spells known") and apply that to Sublime Chord. You obviously can't cast levels 0 to 3 since SC has no slots. You could take Extra Slot for each (4 feats), but that is expensive.

Could you do this:
Arcane Preparation
Heighten Spell

Prepare the 0 to 3 level spells in levels 4 to 9 as heightened spells?

It appears legal to me, any way to shoot it down? What am I missing?
LSMFT
11-06-07, 11:18 AM Well, if I understand your question, it depends on how you see the SC's casting:

Are the 0-3 spells and the 4-9 spells all part of the same "spell-casting progression."

Are the "bard spells" and "SC spells" two distinct progressions, like a bard/wizard's would be, or a single continuous one?

It sure looks to me like they are meant to be one progression. That you should be able to Heighten a bard-Charm Person to a Sublime Cord's 5th-level slot if you wanted.

But technically, I don't think you can get around the fact that they are two separate classes and the spellcasting of one is distinct from the spellcasting of the other.
PhaedrusXY
11-06-07, 11:59 AM You don't even need Heighten spell. You can prepare lower level spells in higher level slots by default, without a feat. Without Heighten Spell, the DC would still be for the actual spell level, not the slot you prepared it in, though.
risner
11-06-07, 03:00 PM You don't even need Heighten spell. You can prepare lower level spells in higher level slots by default, without a feat. Without Heighten Spell, the DC would still be for the actual spell level, not the slot you prepared it in, though.

So, you think it is legal to have a spells know for a level you can't cast (Sublime Chord has no spells/day of 2nd level spells) and memorize it in a valid slot, say 5th level slot?

I am ignoring for now the complicated question of whether all Bard spells (say like Charm Person) can be casted from a 5th level SC slot.
PhaedrusXY
11-06-07, 05:18 PM Yes, I do. I think Sublime Chord is meant to be a continuation of your bard casting, anyway. I don't think it is spelled out like that in the class, though.

Either way, adding Heighten Spell isn't going to make this any more legal or illegal than it was to start with. You can prepare spells in higher level slots without it. Whether you know the spells to do this with is an entirely separate issue.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
risner 11-06-07, 11:08 AM	Say you have Sublime Chord with a limited spell list from your only other arcane class in spell levels 0-3 and you take Sand Shaper (or some other "gimme lots of spells known") and apply that to Sublime Chord. You obviously can't cast levels 0 to 3 since SC has no slots. You could take Extra Slot for each (4 feats), but that is expensive. Could you do this: Arcane Preparation Heighten Spell Prepare the 0 to 3 level spells in levels 4 to 9 as heightened spells? It appears legal to me, any way to shoot it down? What am I missing?
LSMFT 11-06-07, 11:18 AM	Well, if I understand your question, it depends on how you see the SC's casting: Are the 0-3 spells and the 4-9 spells all part of the same "spell-casting progression." Are the "bard spells" and "SC spells" two distinct progressions, like a bard/wizard's would be, or a single continuous one? It sure looks to me like they are meant to be one progression. That you should be able to Heighten a bard-Charm Person to a Sublime Cord's 5th-level slot if you wanted. But technically, I don't think you can get around the fact that they are two separate classes and the spellcasting of one is distinct from the spellcasting of the other.
PhaedrusXY 11-06-07, 11:59 AM	You don't even need Heighten spell. You can prepare lower level spells in higher level slots by default, without a feat. Without Heighten Spell, the DC would still be for the actual spell level, not the slot you prepared it in, though.
risner 11-06-07, 03:00 PM	You don't even need Heighten spell. You can prepare lower level spells in higher level slots by default, without a feat. Without Heighten Spell, the DC would still be for the actual spell level, not the slot you prepared it in, though. So, you think it is legal to have a spells know for a level you can't cast (Sublime Chord has no spells/day of 2nd level spells) and memorize it in a valid slot, say 5th level slot? I am ignoring for now the complicated question of whether all Bard spells (say like Charm Person) can be casted from a 5th level SC slot.
PhaedrusXY 11-06-07, 05:18 PM	Yes, I do. I think Sublime Chord is meant to be a continuation of your bard casting, anyway. I don't think it is spelled out like that in the class, though. Either way, adding Heighten Spell isn't going to make this any more legal or illegal than it was to start with. You can prepare spells in higher level slots without it. Whether you know the spells to do this with is an entirely separate issue.