Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DreadWizardDM 12-09-05, 03:57 PM	We have a sorcerer who is always using arcane sight or greater arcane sight in our group. He thusfar has been using the spell to see invisible or hidden foes. Also he uses his greater arcane sight to determine tons of information about these foes. Is there a way to stop this? I had to design a portion of a dungeon where NO divination magic worked just to slow them down. 1. Can either arcane sight or greater arcane sight allow you to see the magical aura of an invisible creature or a hidden creature? "Theres an invisibility effect on him so I see his or his items magical auras". 2. It does not seem to indicate that line of site is an issue, I have thought about concealment but nadda... only thing I can think of is total cover to block the arcane sight. From the SRD Arcane Sight Divination Level: Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 min./level (D) This spell makes your eyes glow blue and allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet of you. The effect is similar to that of a detect magic spell, but arcane sight does not require concentration and discerns aura location and power more quickly. You know the location and power of all magical auras within your sight. An aura’s power depends on a spell’s functioning level or an item’s caster level, as noted in the description of the detect magic spell. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + one-half caster level for a nonspell effect.) If you concentrate on a specific creature within 120 feet of you as a standard action, you can determine whether it has any spellcasting or spell-like abilities, whether these are arcane or divine (spell-like abilities register as arcane), and the strength of the most powerful spell or spell-like ability the creature currently has available for use. Arcane sight can be made permanent with a permanency spell. Arcane Sight, Greater Divination Level: Sor/Wiz 7 This spell functions like arcane sight, except that you automatically know which spells or magical effects are active upon any individual or object you see. Greater arcane sight doesn’t let you identify magic items. Unlike arcane sight, this spell cannot be made permanent with a permanency spell.
farfairer 12-09-05, 04:08 PM	Unfortunatly he is right. He can see the invisible people. But he can't actually see the invisible people, just their auras. And the auras of all their magical gear. So while he knows what spells are active on them, and what magic items they are carying, he doestn't know who or what the person is. Any spell that prevents divination (mind blank for instance) would prevent him from seeing the person's aura with arcane sight. Nystul's Magic Aura (althought not usable on a person) will prevent him from detecting the aura of any item it is cast on. Only identify gets past this spell, and it still requires a will save. Hope this helps.
justaworm 12-09-05, 04:22 PM	At first, I was going to say that because both descriptions use phrases such as "within your sight" and "upon any individual or object you see", you need to be able to actually see the target in question. However, one sentence in Arcane Sight, "If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight...", makes me think on the side of the player. There wouldn't be an "if" condition there unless it could work on objects you couldn't directly see. I would still say, however, that with Greater Arcane Sight, you do need to be able to actually see the target in question since it doesn't say otherwise. Also, See Invisibility is 2nd level and this is 3rd, so it isn't exactly overpowered. Plus, it just lets you see (or know about) the auras so concealment or cover isn't necessarily negated. I would say that the person still receives a cover or concealment bonus, although probably lessened slightly. Some spells to counter this ability include silence, dispel magic, and non-detection.
Incognito2me 12-09-05, 04:35 PM	120ft... Unless you've suddenly decided to stuff your campaign full of invisible rogues, this isn't that big a deal. If an enemy is within 120ft, chances are they see you too and are heading your way. Imagine a snorting, charging warrior. It doesn't help that you can see his aura, as he's about to smush you!
Jherid 12-09-05, 06:29 PM	I would still say, however, that with Greater Arcane Sight, you do need to be able to actually see the target in question since it doesn't say otherwise. This spell functions like arcane sight :rolleye2:
Vithar 12-09-05, 07:08 PM	Start using Arcane Sight against them. My players found out real quick that it isn't all that great when they try to use invisibility or to hide and they find out that people can still see them because their eyes glow. Also it allows them to detect magical auras in the area. That does not allow them to pinpoint their target. Good for AoE spells bot not so great for targetted or ranged touch spells.
smrtgmp 12-09-05, 07:46 PM	Nondetection is your friend. Another good trick is to use Nystul's Magical Aura to disguise auras. You can make magical items appear non-magical, so that they wont glow under the various detect spells.
Wyrd Bearer 12-09-05, 07:58 PM	Wouldn't you then detect the aura of Nystul's, as in you'd pick up a weak illusion[glamour] aura? Or is it sort of implied in its description that Nystul's has no aura when it changes an object to have or hide its own aura? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I'm just curious.
farfairer 12-09-05, 08:11 PM	The only way to detect Nystul's Magic Aura is by making a Will save while identifying the item.
bpatel02 12-09-05, 08:25 PM	Isn't this just as big a problem with detect magic, I mean less range, but you can see active spells on people.
CryoSilver 12-09-05, 08:33 PM	But you need to concentrate on it.
Nom 12-09-05, 10:38 PM	"Duration: 1 min/lvl". That's the big limiter on this spell. It's not like mage armour (lasts all day). It's not like resist energy (lasts at least an hour). It lasts anywhere from 5 minutes to a quarter of an hour. A party showing any degree of caution is not going to travel very far in 5-10 minutes. Also, it only detects magical auras. There are plenty of things that hide really well without needing any Su or Sp abilities. And there are plenty of nasty traps that are completely non-magical. Let him get overconfident, then have a bunch of kobold rogues ambush him from the shadows while he's off scanning for magic auras.
savant_warlord13 12-09-05, 10:50 PM	antimagic fields and beholders
Sarge 12-10-05, 12:13 AM	Arcane sight is not nearly as powerful as most think. The important wording here is 'line of sight', though many people are misinterpreting it. Keep in mind that in D&D, a line area is specifically defined. It has only a 5' width, and thus can only scan a very small area at a time. Most people seem to treat it as a spread or emanation effect, but it is in fact simply a line and lines don't cover a great deal of the battlefield. It's like a lightning bolt. If your DM doesn't let you fry the entire enemy army with a lightning bolt, then he shouldn't allow you to scan the entire battlefield with arcane sight either. At the start of your turn you get to choose which way you want your line of sight to face. And that's it. In fact, most of the time you're likely to miss invisible creatures unless you get very lucky. I hope this helps and happy gaming.
Czahkiswashi 12-10-05, 12:30 AM	Sarge, you're wrong. a Line is different from "line of sight". "line of sight simply refers to being able to see the object/creature, and has nothing to do with the lightning bolt style "lines"
DND encyclopedia667 12-10-05, 12:39 AM	Line of sight extends in all directions, are you saying that you only see in a small 5ft wide, 5ft high corridor? to determine if you have line of sight to something you draw an imaginary line from your space to the target's space, if the line is clear yoou have line of sight to that object or creature. There is nothing that says that you can only have line of sight to one object or creature at a time. The difference with lightning bolt is that it effects a line, not line of sight.
Sarge 12-10-05, 01:49 AM	to determine if you have line of sight to something you draw an imaginary line from your space to the target's space, if the line is clear yoou have line of sight to that object or creature. You're thinking of line of effect which is completely different and not part of spell area. We are talking about determining the area a spell affects, and for arcane sight, it's a line. You'll notice that detect magic is clearly a cone shaped area. One of the drawbacks to arcane sight, which requires no concentration, is that it affects only a single line per round.
Sarlax 12-10-05, 02:18 AM	You're thinking of line of effect which is completely different and not part of spell area. We are talking about determining the area a spell affects, and for arcane sight, it's a line. You'll notice that detect magic is clearly a cone shaped area. One of the drawbacks to arcane sight, which requires no concentration, is that it affects only a single line per round. This is incorrect. First, check the spell: "This spell ... allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet of you." Next, check the glossary (310): "Two creatures can see each other if they have line of sight to each other. To determine line of sight, draw an imaginary line between your space and the target's space. If any such line is clear (not blocked), then you have line of sight to the creature (and it has line of sight to you)." You don't have a single line of sight. You have line of sight to everything you can see. Arcane Sight doesn't have an "area it affects;" it affects the caster by granting him a temporary power. If there are a dozen magic swords lying at his feet, he knows instantly about all of them, assuming he makes the requisite Spellcraft checks. That being said,, there is a problem. Here's the rest of the Line of Sight information. "If you can't see the target (for instance, if you're blind or the target is invisible), you can't have line of sight to it even if you could draw an unblocked line between your space and the target's." This means Arcane Sight grants the caster no knowledge of the auras of invisible creatures or objects. He can't see them, so he has no line of sight to them, so he can't see them with this spell.
Germytech 12-10-05, 02:23 AM	A big thing to remember is that, although one might be able to see the "illusion aura," whoever is invisible still gains total concealment and the 50% miss chance. Arcane sight is also a Personal spell, meaning that another character with a higher attack bonus will be unable to take advantage of it. You can pinpoint the location of the invisible creature, but that's not as helpful as one might think.
Zitchas 12-10-05, 02:51 AM	A couple of people here have noted a very important point, and probably the most important one for you to remember here: This spell does NOT allow the user to see invisible people. It doesn't even allow the user to see the invisible people's magical gear. It does allow you to see a)the magical auras of the invisibility, b) the auras of any other spells active on the person, and c) the auras of any magical items they have. Effectively, assuming a highish level oponent, using Arcane Sight allows a user to pinpoint the foe's location, negating the need for wasting time with listen/spot checks and waving weapons through possibly empty spaces to find them. It doesn't negate the total concealment, though. It also doesn't allow you to determine if they're male or female, or even if they're of a race for which that is a valid descriptive term. (speculation:you should probably be able to tell what size they are, though, since an aura will vary depending on the size of the object it's cast on, although it won't change in intensity) It should be noted that it does NOT reveal what spells are active, only the auras and intensities. IF the user is within line-of-sight they (the user) may attempt spellcraft checks to ID the aura's school, but not spell. In the case of the invisible target with magic gear, one could determine that there's a weak illusion aura, a medium abjuration aura, and a couple medium evocation auras. With a bit of concentration, the user could find out that they can cast arcane spells, and that their most powerfull accessible spell is a 7th level (but not which spell it is). From this, I'd personally make the following guesses: Firstly, the weak illusion is probably an invisibility spell, probably a ring of illusion (bought or acquired from some low level type, thus weak aura), some sort of a protective device (more powerfull, acquired later on), and a couple things with offensive potential. Wands, maybe, or rods, or maybe some spell effet provided by someone else (but probably not by the target, due to the aura strength) As one could see, it's possible to infer a lot from such info. But it's all guesswork. Informed guesses, but still guesses. He could quite easily be hidden someother way, and it's a mirror image spell waiting to suprise us when he acts, for example. Now, Greater Arcane Sight, that will ID all the spells and spell effects and whatnot active, which takes a fair bit of the guesswork out of it. My advice would be as such: Be smart. If there's reasonable grounds for your PC's foes to have observed them somehow (fairly likely if they're progressing up the chain of opponents in search of the head mastermind), they probably know your PC's more common tricks, especially if they're using them all the time. Almost any high level arcane caster should be able to recognize heavy Arcane Sight use. The rogue spy might not have a clue what the glowing eyes means, but he can probably guess it's something to help the wizard see better. And the archmage he reports to probably knows. If your opponents know they use AS all the time, they'll probably have something ready. Depending on how much time and ressources they have available (and their inclination) it could range from casting Nystul's Aura on their scout's gear to making sure that the guards who are going to ambush them leave all their magical items behind and use plain old stealth to suprise them. Or it could be as upscale as having ALL of the mastermind (and his bodyguard)'s gear cloaked in Non-detection (and Obscure Object could help here too) effects, while putting lots of Nystul's aura (working the other way) on, say, his second in command and HIS bodyguard's gear so it looks like his lacky is the super high and has lots of expensive magic one (and thus the big threat) Final word: Don't penalize them for using a spell how it's meant to be used. If they don't mind the slower gamepace for having to recast (and burn valuable spell slots) AS frequently, so be it. But on the same token, don't play their opponents dumb either. If they watch them use AS every step of the way, they're going to make plans for it. (unless they ARE, in fact, dumb)
DreadWizardDM 12-10-05, 04:23 AM	The big problem I am having with it is that it essentially gives away hidden foes locations. Also invisible foes locations. Not every foe is going to have nystuls or nondetection. This spell also kinda ticks me off because it makes any illusion TOTALLY WORTHLESS. I used to love putting fake walls and illusion covered pits in dungeons but with greater arcane sight it has become pointless. I suppose its my fault really, the party fought a great wyrm white dragon on a snow covered mountain in a tough battle. I gave the dragon greater arcane sight as one of his sorcerer spells known and was totally taking advantage of it against the party. Yes I DM intelligent monsters with cunning and guile. The guy who plays the groups sorcerer found out what spell I had been using to put the screws to them and eventually swapped out one of his known spells for greater arcane sight. So now the Sorc basically walks around with it on almost always. The players I DM are very clever so I need to be EXTRA clever when dealing with them haha. Considering the sorcerer is level 20 now he can pretty much keep it up most of the day. I think I will rule as follows: 1. Versus invisibility: You can see an opponent is invisible and has that spell on him, however he still has total concealment. Not much use against delayed blast fireball but still helpful. 2. Versus Hidden foes: I think some form of a spot check is still in order but I would imagine that it is far easier to see a glowing pile of magic than is normal. So I will say a +10 on the spot check to see someone hidden, if the spot fails than he (the sorc) does not bother turning his gaze in the direction of the hidden enemy. Maybe even a +15 spot? 3. Versus illusions: Illusions are now useless :weep: ...which really irritates me because I love using illusions. Greater arc sight would even allow the caster to see which is the real person out of a group of mirror images. Some spells such as Weird would probably still work on him though I am guessing.
cwslyclgh 12-10-05, 04:35 AM	wow Sarge, haven't seen you around in a while... glad to see you back.
Nom 12-10-05, 05:27 AM	Remember, 1 min/lvl. This is not a spell you can just leave up. And you can always block it by blocking LoS. For instance, try a tower shield.
Trance Kuja 12-10-05, 10:05 AM	Although I'm not sure about Greater AS, normal AS can permanancied. This should be cheap to aquire for a lvl 20 sorc. Sure he won't know what spells are in effect, but he can guess like a previous poster suggested.
mushraeddur 12-10-05, 04:51 PM	You're thinking of line of effect which is completely different and not part of spell area. We are talking about determining the area a spell affects, and for arcane sight, it's a line. You'll notice that detect magic is clearly a cone shaped area. One of the drawbacks to arcane sight, which requires no concentration, is that it affects only a single line per round. I have a hard time believing you can only look at single line per round. It doesn't take a round to scan over a room...how could it take a round for just a 5ft wide line? This just doesn't make sense to me.
mushraeddur 12-10-05, 05:05 PM	Although I'm not sure about Greater AS, normal AS can permanancied. This should be cheap to aquire for a lvl 20 sorc. Sure he won't know what spells are in effect, but he can guess like a previous poster suggested. I've wondered about a PC doing this. How does it affect their normal sight? Do you see everything normally, except magical items have auras around them? Are the auras mild enough not to drive the sorcerer/mage crazy from seeing them permanantly? Just curious...don't mean to highjack the thread.
MarkB 12-10-05, 07:33 PM	As far as picking up auras beyond line-of-sight, since the spell works similarly to Detect Magic, I'd say it is blocked by similar things. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it. So you can detect the auras of invisible creatures and their gear, but not determine the aura's school (because you don't have line of sight on the creature itself), and auras behind sufficient cover will be undetectable. And as mentioned, duration really is the limiter here. If a 10th-level Sorcerer with 18 CHA dedicates all his 3rd-level castings to Arcane Sight, foregoing any other spellcasting at that level, he could use it for a total of 70 minutes per day, in 10-minute sections. That's a very small portion of an adventurer's working day.
Feor 12-10-05, 09:21 PM	My solution to this: "The whole room glows an almost blinding white. You can almost see patches which may be distinct objects but they're lost in the radiance that is the background aura of the room." Maybe let him do a concentration check to spot each individual aura. (i.e. 1 check per aura) and make him do a Fort save each time or be blinded/dazzled. :) And what superemly powerful aura could possibly cause such a strong glow, that will undoubtedly have the party scrambling for cover in terrible fear of a magic trap? Why, a simple epic level Hallow or Unhallow :P
angellis_ater 12-10-05, 09:34 PM	Or just simply don't use Illusions and Invisible foes for a while! Let them use their AS and detect that that big Balor that just appeared infront of them seems awfully magical. Use Psionics and the "Psionics are different" rules if you feel your game has gotten out of your hands. Or the always lovable "Greater Dispel Magic" and "Antimagic Field" to stomp on the spellslingers.
Gnarl 12-11-05, 08:09 AM	That being said,, there is a problem. Here's the rest of the Line of Sight information. "If you can't see the target (for instance, if you're blind or the target is invisible), you can't have line of sight to it even if you could draw an unblocked line between your space and the target's." It's strange, nobody quoted this guys. Everybody seems to agree that you can see invisible guys with arcane eye, but doesn't he prove it's wrong? I hope your realize that some of you are assuming that a single 1rst level spell (detect magic) can negate most illusion spells from level 0 to epic. Doesn't anyone find this kind of strange? Last thing, why does magic aura work against this spell and illusions don't? Would it be that unreasonable to assume that if you are using detect magic or similar magics on illusions, you are at best interacting with the illusion and entitled a saving throw?
Wolf72 12-11-05, 08:48 AM	um ... the sorceror's eyes are glowing blue!!!!! ... If I'm an invisible bad guy or a bad guy planning on using invisibility I just might come up with a new tactic ... at the very least I know where to target my first attacks. there is also the fact that only the sorceror can see the magic auras ... saying "It's over there!" isn't a very good target indicator for the ranged combatants.
MarkB 12-11-05, 10:26 AM	It's strange, nobody quoted this guys. Everybody seems to agree that you can see invisible guys with arcane eye, but doesn't he prove it's wrong? No. Check the spell description at the start of the thread - you only need line of sight in order to identify the auras with Spellcraft, not to detect their presence. I hope your realize that some of you are assuming that a single 1rst level spell (detect magic) can negate most illusion spells from level 0 to epic. Doesn't anyone find this kind of strange? Maybe so, but it's hardly unprecedented. Invisibility Purge and See Invisibility work just as well on high-level effects granting invisibility as they do on low-level effects. Last thing, why does magic aura work against this spell and illusions don't? Would it be that unreasonable to assume that if you are using detect magic or similar magics on illusions, you are at best interacting with the illusion and entitled a saving throw? Illusions are generally designed to fool ordinary senses, not magical ones. If the illusory effect is high-level, or the sorcerer rolls badly, he may not be able to make the Spellcraft roll to find out that it's illusion magic, in which case he simply sees that there's a magic aura there. With many illusions - an illusory door, for instance, or an illusion of a powerful creature - there could be any number of reasons for it to have a magical aura: The door may be magically trapped, the creature may have magical buffing spells cast on it, etc.
farfairer 12-11-05, 11:00 AM	I hope your realize that some of you are assuming that a single 1rst level spell (detect magic) can negate most illusion spells from level 0 to epic. Doesn't anyone find this kind of strange? Detect magic can point out the existance of an illusion in the area you are looking, but the spell requires concentrtion, and (in order to find the actual illusion) most likely 3 rounds of continuous use. Last thing, why does magic aura work against this spell and illusions don't? Would it be that unreasonable to assume that if you are using detect magic or similar magics on illusions, you are at best interacting with the illusion and entitled a saving throw? The spell specificly says that it fools detection spells for an item:Magic Aura Illusion (Glamer) Level: Brd 1, Magic 1, Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S, F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: One touched object weighing up to 5 lb./level Duration: One day/level (D) Saving Throw: None; see text Spell Resistance: No You alter an item’s aura so that it registers to detect spells (and spells with similar capabilities) as though it were nonmagical, or a magic item of a kind you specify, or the subject of a spell you specify. If the object bearing magic aura has identify cast on it or is similarly examined, the examiner recognizes that the aura is false and detects the object’s actual qualities if he succeeds on a Will save. Otherwise, he believes the aura and no amount of testing reveals what the true magic is. If the targeted item’s own aura is exceptionally powerful (if it is an artifact, for instance), magic aura doesn’t work. Note: A magic weapon, shield, or suit of armor must be a masterwork item, so a sword of average make, for example, looks suspicious if it has a magical aura. All emphasis added by me.
solbergb 12-11-05, 12:15 PM	The reason arcane sight can detect the invisibility aura is it works "like detect magic" - which can detect an invisibility aura. You need line of sight (a wall or 5' of fog cloud will block it, unlike detect magic) but you don't need to see the thing the invis is hiding...you only need to have nothing blocking LOS between you and the magical aura. As others have stated, it is terrific for pinpointing an enemy, or revealing hidden rogue locations using nonmagical hiding (if they have a potion of CLW or a magic rapier or whatever) but it does not let you target them with a "targeted" spell nor does it eliminate the 50% miss chance for concealment. It does, however, let you target that glitterdust (or evards or whatever) with accuracy and lets you call out to teammates where the bad guys are. And ruins ambushes within 120'. A disguise spell is recommended to conceal or transform those glowing blue eyes, and a hat of disguise is recommended for social encounters if you have made the spell permanent. Dust of Disappearance will defeat the spell (as it defeats magical detection), and invisible stalkers are likewise immune because they don't use magic, it is natural. Likewise any non-equipment, non-spell using enemy with good stealth skills (think, advanced animals...) can still spring an ambush. It does weaken figment type illusions. That is one of the things the spell is FOR. See Invisible, btw, is generally more powerful vs invisibility magic and effects because it has no range limits. It also lasts a lot longer and can see etherial threats. It's a lower level spell. Don't nerf Arcane Sight just because it does what it is supposed to. It is a 3rd level, minute/level spell, or it is a 1500xp plus 5th level spell investment. Yes the spell will ruin some encounters. So will a fighter with especially high armor class or a scout with good spot/listen. Big deal. Let the players have their fun when it works, let them spend the resources when it doesn't work and let the enemies of the AS user figure it out eventually and plan for it.
DreadWizardDM 12-11-05, 02:20 PM	One fianl note on the glowing blue eyes. You can make your eyes glow orange, red, yellow, or any other color you want depending on your choice of flavor. The caster can choose to dress up his spells anyways he chooses with little mundane things such as this. :D
ubernex 12-11-05, 02:43 PM	One fianl note on the glowing blue eyes. You can make your eyes glow orange, red, yellow, or any other color you want depending on your choice of flavor. The caster can choose to dress up his spells anyways he chooses with little mundane things such as this. :D Ah yes, but here is the rub, the eyes always glow. So say you have a nice Perm AS. Great. Until you walk into town, or have to meet with some diplomat or something of that sort. Maybe the eye's just freak them out. Maybe they demand that all obvious magics be turned off. Lots of ways that a character who's eyes always glow an odd color can mess up things for the party. Think about it...
Incognito2me 12-11-05, 05:36 PM	Prestidigitation, anyone? :P Prestidigitation Universal Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 10 ft. Target, Effect, or Area: See text Duration: 1 hour Saving Throw: See text Spell Resistance: No Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour. Emphasis mine. As a DM i'd probably allow a casters eyes to be hidden by Prestidigitation.
MarkB 12-11-05, 06:13 PM	Emphasis mine. As a DM i'd probably allow a casters eyes to be hidden by Prestidigitation. Nothing in the spell description says Prestidigitation can create one-way glass, so even if you interpret its ability to colour objects as an ability to put an opaque lightproof coating over a light-emitting object (unlikely at best), if it did so it would, by its lightproof nature, also blind the subject.
Gauze Fireforge 12-12-05, 03:20 AM	We have a sorcerer who is always using arcane sight or greater arcane sight in our group. He thusfar has been using the spell to see invisible or hidden foes. Also he uses his greater arcane sight to determine tons of information about these foes. Is there a way to stop this? I had to design a portion of a dungeon where NO divination magic worked just to slow them down. 1. Can either arcane sight or greater arcane sight allow you to see the magical aura of an invisible creature or a hidden creature? "Theres an invisibility effect on him so I see his or his items magical auras". 2. It does not seem to indicate that line of site is an issue, I have thought about concealment but nadda... only thing I can think of is total cover to block the arcane sight. From the SRD My friend, you dont get mad, you get even, here is how. BOVD p101 Psychic poision Essentially anyone who casts a divination or mind effecting spell within the area or upon an object is then faced with the draw back of being posioned by a psychic posion. There are some really joy ones in the BOVD. I am sure he will think about twice casting it to enter a dungeon with his 1 min/lvl duration of arcane sight. You could probably create a grater version of the spell so that any creature who has a divination or mind effecting spell or power on their person who uses it within the defined area or object, succumbs to psychici poison of your choice!
Gnarl 12-12-05, 03:33 AM	You alter an item’s aura so that it registers to detect spells (and spells with similar capabilities) as though it were nonmagical, or a magic item of a kind you specify, or the subject of a spell you specify. Yes, so the spell conceals an item's aura, but nowhere does it mention that the spells alters it's own aura. So all items would have a feint illusion aura. And some seem to assume that the spell conceals it's own aura. Why wouldn't be the same with other illusions? Illusions are generally designed to fool ordinary senses, not magical ones. I'm sorry to be such an ass, but could you quote the part of the rules I'm missing where this is explained?
Cyphen 12-12-05, 05:10 AM	I hope your realize that some of you are assuming that a single 1rst level spell (detect magic) can negate most illusion spells from level 0 to epic. Doesn't anyone find this kind of strange? Look at the top of page 219 of the Players Handbook. There's something about if an aura is cast by a really powerful dude, it hurts you or something (it's late now...) so this 0 level spell is only as strong as you are. And can't you turn something that you've Permanent-ed on an off?
Vaelan 12-12-05, 05:30 AM	Yes, so the spell conceals an item's aura, but nowhere does it mention that the spells alters it's own aura. First of all, you should be able to tell that you're wrong because your interpretation would render the spell absolutely worthless. That tends to be a pretty strong indication that you've made a mistake. Second, only creatures and items have auras. As such, the magic aura spell is either completely undetectable by detect magic and similar spells, since it is not an item or creature and thus has no aura, or it adds its school and power to the item or creature's aura, which is hidden by the effect of the spell anyway. Magic aura fools detect magic, arcane sight, and greater arcane sight perfectly. As for the original problem, they don't get to see the school of the aura. Throw in a few nasty magical traps and they'll think twice about blindly stabbing every magical aura they find. I'm rather fond of the forcecage + Summon Monster 7 trap found in the DMG. A few unseen servants set to simply wander about the room could also muddle the results of the spell.