Arcane VS. Divine. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane VS. Divine. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
klode_me
08-24-05, 11:41 AM this maybe has been asked before, but what do folks mean is the most powerful/useful, and maybe some good classes/prcs which grand it.
Leach
08-24-05, 12:05 PM Umm...what?

If I understand what you're asking, then here's a simple clarification:

Arcane magic is magic that comes from you knowing all the right words and gestures to get the magic to work. It's generally flashy and powerful. Bards, Wizards, and Sorcerers cast arcane magic.

Divine magic comes from some outside source, such as a god or nature itself. It's usually not as flashy as arcane magic, but can still be very powerful and incredibly useful (ie, heal). Clerics, Druids, Rangers, and Paladins cast divine magic.

So there are your classes. Most prestige classes that give spellcasting just give something like "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class" or something like that. The Mystic Theurge (from the SRD) is the quintessential PrC for getting both arcane and divine.
Salabasha
08-24-05, 12:25 PM Also some versions of True Nec
Lord shadow35
08-24-05, 06:37 PM I would have to say the best arcane prestige class is Initiate of the seven fold veil.

The most powerful divine prestige class is Church inquisitor.
smrtgmp
08-24-05, 06:52 PM I would have to vote Dweomerkeeper (otherwise known as the Cheater of Mystra) as the most powerful divine PrC. Free wishes without resorting to any loopholes (gate, ring/scroll of wishes, thought bottle, etc)? Yes please.
Vanigo
08-25-05, 03:42 PM I would have to vote Dweomerkeeper (otherwise known as the Cheater of Mystra) as the most powerful divine PrC. Free wishes without resorting to any loopholes (gate, ring/scroll of wishes, thought bottle, etc)? Yes please.
It's also the most powerful arcane PrC, even though you have to take a level of cleric to qualify. Heck, it's the most powerful PrC period. By a factor of about three million.
klode_me
08-25-05, 03:46 PM where is this Dweomerkeeper from?
Vanigo
08-25-05, 04:23 PM Complete Divine web enhancement. Don't be surprised if your DM won't allow it; most won't. It's the most broken thing WotC has ever published.
tarkin
08-25-05, 05:20 PM You are ignoring the Sage's advice concerning supernatural abilities.

If you follow his rules, then you still pay the XP cost for Wish and Miracles.

Any exceptional, supernatural, or spell like ability that duplicates a spell that has an XP cost still costs creatures and PCs' the XP, unless the ability specifically says it does not cost you XP.

This killed the various abuses involved with playing a genie, or Gating one in.

So that would be:

Strict Game: Web enhancments? What web enhancements. Strict game would probably not allow this at all.

Loose Game: Ignore the munchkins, Dweomer Keeper can NOT cast Miracle/Wish without paying the XP.

Power Game/Anything Goes game: Screw that Sage, he ain't my DM. I get Wish/Miracle at no XP cost and there aint nothing you can do about it.
smrtgmp
08-25-05, 07:20 PM The only problem with that ruling is that it contradicts what the rules have to say on the matter.

IMO you'd be better off not allowing the PrC to begin with.
Lord shadow35
08-25-05, 07:40 PM Guy's le's just ignore what the rules say and listen to the sage. Are you out of your mind? LOL. Even the SRD say's that creatures can use there spell-like ability's with out the xp cost.
Willie the Duck
08-25-05, 10:02 PM Guy's le's just ignore what the rules say and listen to the sage. Are you out of your mind? LOL. Even the SRD say's that creatures can use there spell-like ability's with out the xp cost.

You're suggesting allowing infinite wish loopholes, and have the unbelievable gall to ask if others are out of their mind? Seriously, the Sage may not be popular, but it as equally imperfect and contradictory to the other official rules arbiters (of which, none has a clear supremacy). This is one of those rare rulings no sane person has any business complaining about.
was_fired
08-26-05, 12:55 AM The problem isn't that we disagree with the sage that this is how it should works. What we disagree with is his authority to rule it. This involves a major house rule or Errata. It should be in the errata just like the shapechange fix (50HD gotta love drunk designers), but it isn't.
smrtgmp
08-26-05, 05:21 AM What he said.
Lord shadow35
08-26-05, 11:14 AM I agree with was fired. I am just saying this is the rules that were laid down. This, if it is that big of a deal house rule it. But don't say that it can't be done by the rules because it can. Now if an errata came out for it i would shut my mouth. But even think about this this person keeps burning those wishes in forgotten realms Ethier the mage hounds would get them or the shades will. I am not pionting out how it should be run, i am pointing out what the rulels say.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
klode_me 08-24-05, 11:41 AM	this maybe has been asked before, but what do folks mean is the most powerful/useful, and maybe some good classes/prcs which grand it.
Leach 08-24-05, 12:05 PM	Umm...what? If I understand what you're asking, then here's a simple clarification: Arcane magic is magic that comes from you knowing all the right words and gestures to get the magic to work. It's generally flashy and powerful. Bards, Wizards, and Sorcerers cast arcane magic. Divine magic comes from some outside source, such as a god or nature itself. It's usually not as flashy as arcane magic, but can still be very powerful and incredibly useful (ie, heal). Clerics, Druids, Rangers, and Paladins cast divine magic. So there are your classes. Most prestige classes that give spellcasting just give something like "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class" or something like that. The Mystic Theurge (from the SRD) is the quintessential PrC for getting both arcane and divine.
Salabasha 08-24-05, 12:25 PM	Also some versions of True Nec
Lord shadow35 08-24-05, 06:37 PM	I would have to say the best arcane prestige class is Initiate of the seven fold veil. The most powerful divine prestige class is Church inquisitor.
smrtgmp 08-24-05, 06:52 PM	I would have to vote Dweomerkeeper (otherwise known as the Cheater of Mystra) as the most powerful divine PrC. Free wishes without resorting to any loopholes (gate, ring/scroll of wishes, thought bottle, etc)? Yes please.
Vanigo 08-25-05, 03:42 PM	I would have to vote Dweomerkeeper (otherwise known as the Cheater of Mystra) as the most powerful divine PrC. Free wishes without resorting to any loopholes (gate, ring/scroll of wishes, thought bottle, etc)? Yes please. It's also the most powerful arcane PrC, even though you have to take a level of cleric to qualify. Heck, it's the most powerful PrC period. By a factor of about three million.
klode_me 08-25-05, 03:46 PM	where is this Dweomerkeeper from?
Vanigo 08-25-05, 04:23 PM	Complete Divine web enhancement. Don't be surprised if your DM won't allow it; most won't. It's the most broken thing WotC has ever published.
tarkin 08-25-05, 05:20 PM	You are ignoring the Sage's advice concerning supernatural abilities. If you follow his rules, then you still pay the XP cost for Wish and Miracles. Any exceptional, supernatural, or spell like ability that duplicates a spell that has an XP cost still costs creatures and PCs' the XP, unless the ability specifically says it does not cost you XP. This killed the various abuses involved with playing a genie, or Gating one in. So that would be: Strict Game: Web enhancments? What web enhancements. Strict game would probably not allow this at all. Loose Game: Ignore the munchkins, Dweomer Keeper can NOT cast Miracle/Wish without paying the XP. Power Game/Anything Goes game: Screw that Sage, he ain't my DM. I get Wish/Miracle at no XP cost and there aint nothing you can do about it.
smrtgmp 08-25-05, 07:20 PM	The only problem with that ruling is that it contradicts what the rules have to say on the matter. IMO you'd be better off not allowing the PrC to begin with.
Lord shadow35 08-25-05, 07:40 PM	Guy's le's just ignore what the rules say and listen to the sage. Are you out of your mind? LOL. Even the SRD say's that creatures can use there spell-like ability's with out the xp cost.
Willie the Duck 08-25-05, 10:02 PM	Guy's le's just ignore what the rules say and listen to the sage. Are you out of your mind? LOL. Even the SRD say's that creatures can use there spell-like ability's with out the xp cost. You're suggesting allowing infinite wish loopholes, and have the unbelievable gall to ask if others are out of their mind? Seriously, the Sage may not be popular, but it as equally imperfect and contradictory to the other official rules arbiters (of which, none has a clear supremacy). This is one of those rare rulings no sane person has any business complaining about.
was_fired 08-26-05, 12:55 AM	The problem isn't that we disagree with the sage that this is how it should works. What we disagree with is his authority to rule it. This involves a major house rule or Errata. It should be in the errata just like the shapechange fix (50HD gotta love drunk designers), but it isn't.
smrtgmp 08-26-05, 05:21 AM	What he said.
Lord shadow35 08-26-05, 11:14 AM	I agree with was fired. I am just saying this is the rules that were laid down. This, if it is that big of a deal house rule it. But don't say that it can't be done by the rules because it can. Now if an errata came out for it i would shut my mouth. But even think about this this person keeps burning those wishes in forgotten realms Ethier the mage hounds would get them or the shades will. I am not pionting out how it should be run, i am pointing out what the rulels say.