Arcanist's Transformation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcanist's Transformation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pennarin
04-26-05, 04:54 PM Anyone remember this from a few weeks back?

Arcanist’s Transformation
Transmutation
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)

You become a far more potent arcane spellcaster whilst becoming more confident and skilled with arcane knowledge.
You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to your spellcasting ability score, a +5 competence bonus on Will saves, a +5 insight bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks, and use of the Arcane Mastery feat. Your caster level equals your character level.
This spell does not affect your spells per day or spells known. It increases your caster level in arcane spellcasting classes only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.
Material Component: Either a potion of fox’s cunning or a potion of eagle’s splendor (depending on your spellcasting ability score), which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects).

I'd like to know what you think would be the equivalent of the loss of all spellcasting abilities in Tenser's transformation, but this time in reverse, making it a partial or total loss of fighting abilities.

I'm not searching for a total loss of fighting abilities since I believe that is an unrealistic effect in the context of D&D. Some partial loss - like a -10 to atk - could work. What is everyone's ideas on the subject?

(Tenser's transformation is 6th level and represent the baseline powerlevel for the "transformational" spells, nightstalker's transformation is 5th and less powerful, and arcanist's transformation is 7th level and more powerful because it voids the loss of fighting abilities. Maybe it can be made 6th level if there is some loss of fighting abilities.)
tarkin
04-26-05, 05:20 PM You definitely need to put in a loss of combat abilities.

I suggest simply setting your BAB to 1.

Yes it will adversely your Touch attack spells - so what? That would be a fair penalty to pay.

remember,your spellcasting stat has a huge boost, so you should be going with save spells anyway.
Kaboth
04-26-05, 05:42 PM Well I would say +6 is a bit much and automatically goes to the relevent score as this is an automatic boost to Save DC's of +3. Not to mention this conflicts directly with a Sorcerer as they do not have to memorize for the day, so a CHA boost would boost their spells known even though you say it cant. Not to mention this spell would be more usable by a wizard as that would give a +3 bonus to all their Intell skills including Spellcraft which would effectively boost them a +8 on that score.

But to balance a boost in magic, I would say you get a -4 to str dex and con and a -4 to AC.
TheDarkestOfAngels
04-26-05, 06:14 PM I'd say that, rather than simply loose what little way in combat options that they have (if they cast that spell, the caster is likely not going to resort to that dagger, quarterstaff, or skills, or whatever.)
I'd say the "tensor's transformation-like" penalty would be that the caster MUST cast his spells and not choose to do anything else with a number of specified exceptions.
Such exceptions could include that, if you have a move action, you can use it to move, but a spell must be cast in every round.
If you have no useful spells to cast (either because you ran out, or the set you still have prepared are of absolutely no value - such as knock during a combat situation with no locked doors anywhere)
if you choose to counterspell (but you must still cast at least one spell each round)
or if you willingly choose to end the effects of the spell.

that's what I would do. that way, this spell really turns you into a casting machine, but with the added danger of exhausting your supply of available spells per day. (basically a spell that makes "going nova" for a mage more useful.)
WindOwl
04-26-05, 06:25 PM I declare that to be a great idea. :D
smrtgmp
04-26-05, 06:31 PM I'd say the "tensor's transformation-like" penalty would be that the caster MUST cast his spells and not choose to do anything else with a number of specified exceptions.I like this suggestion.

I also dont think the above spell is worth a 7th level slot. IMO it would be fine at 6th. Afterall, most of the benefits would probably go to waste on someone capable of casting the spell.

By the time you are able to cast 7th level spells, its pretty much guaranteed that you will have an item that grants at least a +4 enhancement bonus to your prime casting stat, and you might even have a +6 by then.

While the bonus on will saves is nice, its not as handy as the bonus to fort saves that tenser's provides, as any caster of that level will already have a helacious will save. Generally speaking, my wizards only fail will saves on a 1, so the +5 wont really do me any good.

While the +5 on concentration checks is nice, I dont think it makes the spell worth a 7th level slot.

Same goes for the Arcane Mastery feat. I generally pick that feat up as early as I can anyways (its one of the best caster feats around, IMO), so this spell woulndt really do anything for me.

Personally, I would use a limitation like the one suggested by TheDarkestofAngels and then completely change what benefits the spell provides. I would go with something like a boost to CL and/or an unamed bonus to the DC of spells cast. That, IMO, would make this spell worth casting, even if it was left at 7th level.
Pennarin
04-26-05, 08:15 PM The choice in the bonuses, and their power level, is thematic and based off of Tenser's.

Tenser's makes you a fighting machine, give +4 to Str, Con, and Dex, while this spell makes you a better spellcaster, so no Fort save or Ref save bonuses. I boosted up the single +4 I was left with to +6, and gave a will save bonus, since that's what this spell does, it makes your will stronger.

This spell is very good if you're a wizard who'se also has, say, 12 levels in another class. He automatically gains 12 caster levels, which means you cast this spell when you encounter the big baddy that has a higher caster level than you do.

Btw, I believe stating "This spell does not affect your spells per day or spells known" does make it so that a Sorcerer won't gain more spells known.

If the spell is put back to 6th level (what I seek) then it needs to be made to affect your fighting abilities, since those are diametrically opposed to your spellcasting.
I don't think casting spells every round is a viable, or desirable, option.
BAB +1 is bad for touch spells as has been mentionned.
Maybe rendering it BAB +1 with any atk roll not made with a spell would work...
Pennarin
04-26-05, 08:17 PM Suggestions outside of the scope of my question, such as changes to the bonuses, are welcome. :)
Pennarin
04-29-05, 03:39 AM Anyone has more applicable suggestions to make?
smrtgmp
04-29-05, 05:27 AM The choice in the bonuses, and their power level, is thematic and based off of Tenser's.I understand you rationale, I just dont think the Tenser's format works very well for a spell that augments what you're already good at. The transformation series grants you abilities that differ from your standard class abilities at the expense of your spellcasting. IMO, that doesnt apply well to a spell like this.

This spell is very good if you're a wizard who'se also has, say, 12 levels in another class. He automatically gains 12 caster levels, which means you cast this spell when you encounter the big baddy that has a higher caster level than you do. So you're at least 25th level (12 levels of something and 13 levels of wizard to be able to cast 7th level spells) in this scenario. I think thats a bit of a stretch to make this spell out to be worth a 7th level slot. Your average multiclass caster probably took only a few non-caster levels before entering into a prestige class that allows for the simaltaneous advancement of two different character types (arcane trickster, eldritch knight, mystic theurge, etc) and the minor loss to caster level can be offset by the practiced spellcaster feat.

I like the idea of a highish level spell that boosts your spellcasting abilities temporarily, I just dont think mimicing the current transformation series of spells is a good way to go about it.
Pennarin
04-29-05, 05:52 PM I like the idea of a highish level spell that boosts your spellcasting abilities temporarily, I just dont think mimicing the current transformation series of spells is a good way to go about it.
All right, this is a proposition.
What do you have in mind?

(I too think a spellcasting-boosting spell needs to be made.)
smrtgmp
04-29-05, 08:13 PM Fair enough. I would go with something like:

Arcane Nexus
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level

At the culmination of this powerful spell, the caster is infused with eldritch might.

Your arcane caster level is increased by +1/4 levels (to a max of +5 at CL 20). This increased caster level will not further enhance the effects of this spell. For example, a 13th level wizard casting this spell would gain a +3 bonus to his caster level, giving him a CL of 16. The bonus from this spell would not then increase to +4.

Furthermore, the DC of any arcane spell you cast is increased by +2, and you recieve a +5 insight bonus to concentration and spellcraft checks.

While this spell is in effect, you are filled with the utmost confidence in your spellcasting abilities, and you experience an exquisite euphoria when ever you cast a spell. As such, you disdain taking actions other than spellcaster. For the spells duration, you will not attack phyically or activate magical items of any kind (continuous use items, such as bracers of armor, remain active). You may still take move actions or a 5-ft step.
Material Component:not sure what, flavor wise, but it should probably cost ~300-600gp.

Obviously there is room for improvement for this spell. This is just off the top of my head. I just think something like this would be more useful to your average wizard/sorcerer.
Talchar
04-29-05, 09:58 PM I'll throw in a couple of thoughts. IMO the current write is not a 7th level spell. , the enhancement and saves is more in line with a 5th level.

What I would change.

Ability Gains

1] +4 unnamed bonus to Spell Casting Attibute
2] -1 level offset to metamagic enhancements
3] Arcane Caster level bonus = 1/2 your arcane caster level (rounded down)
4] Keep the +5 inherit bonus to Concentration and Spell Craft

Offsets
1] The caster is considered Non-proficient with any weapon & armor during the spell duration.
2] The caster must cast (or attempt to cast) a spell in each round. (failure to cast results in you being stunned for 1 round and the spell duration ceases)
3] Lose the (D) dispell option on the duration
4] Lose the Arcane Mastery component, in a short duration spell the mastery component does not make sense.
smrtgmp
04-30-05, 01:15 AM -1 level offset to metamagic enhancements
I like this idea but how would it affect wizards?
Talchar
04-30-05, 03:23 AM I like this idea but how would it affect wizards?

This could handled a couple of ways.

1] Allow the wizard to "spontaneously" add a level 1 metamagic to the spell. The feat so added would be selected when Arcanist’s Transformation is cast. Such as, all spells when cast under the effect of Arcanist’s Transformation have their somantic requirement removed (eg stilled) or extended, of silenced and so on... This option seems to be more in line with the spell as written. [ I could see that the spell description would have a list of applicable metamagic that could be applied to all spells cast.

2] Another way would be that the wizard gains the ability to "reclaim" +1 spell level slot per spell cast when under Arcanist's Transformation. Only spells cast of level 2 or higher, eligible to be partially reclaimed.

These reclaimed spell slots are then organized by level and can be prepared by the wizard, as if they were empty spell slots. The wizard can allocate these spell slots in any way, with the only exception being that no spell slot to be reclaimed be greater then 3rd level.

So, if you had a 13th level wizard, at the end of Arcanist's Transformation, he would have 13 spell levels worth of unused spell slots. He could allocate the 13 spell slots into : (2) level 3 slots, (2) Level two slots, (3) Level one slots.
Pennarin
04-30-05, 06:17 AM I'm thinking notes, guys, this is looking good.

I'll throw in:
- Look up the Complete Warrior's Rage Mage PrC, specifically the Spell Rage class ability. It boosts one's spellcasting while making you less able to defend yourself, a good starting point for a spell adaptation.
- Also, for you folk who got Dragon Magazine 277, the old Rage Mage build had the Spell Retention class ability, allowing you to cast spells without counting them against your daily limit as long as you're spell raging, a potential spellcasting boost to consider for the spell.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pennarin 04-26-05, 04:54 PM	Anyone remember this from a few weeks back? Arcanist’s Transformation Transmutation Level: Sorcerer/wizard 7 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round/level (D) You become a far more potent arcane spellcaster whilst becoming more confident and skilled with arcane knowledge. You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to your spellcasting ability score, a +5 competence bonus on Will saves, a +5 insight bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks, and use of the Arcane Mastery feat. Your caster level equals your character level. This spell does not affect your spells per day or spells known. It increases your caster level in arcane spellcasting classes only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells. Material Component: Either a potion of fox’s cunning or a potion of eagle’s splendor (depending on your spellcasting ability score), which you drink (and whose effects are subsumed by the spell effects). I'd like to know what you think would be the equivalent of the loss of all spellcasting abilities in Tenser's transformation, but this time in reverse, making it a partial or total loss of fighting abilities. I'm not searching for a total loss of fighting abilities since I believe that is an unrealistic effect in the context of D&D. Some partial loss - like a -10 to atk - could work. What is everyone's ideas on the subject? (Tenser's transformation is 6th level and represent the baseline powerlevel for the "transformational" spells, nightstalker's transformation is 5th and less powerful, and arcanist's transformation is 7th level and more powerful because it voids the loss of fighting abilities. Maybe it can be made 6th level if there is some loss of fighting abilities.)
tarkin 04-26-05, 05:20 PM	You definitely need to put in a loss of combat abilities. I suggest simply setting your BAB to 1. Yes it will adversely your Touch attack spells - so what? That would be a fair penalty to pay. remember,your spellcasting stat has a huge boost, so you should be going with save spells anyway.
Kaboth 04-26-05, 05:42 PM	Well I would say +6 is a bit much and automatically goes to the relevent score as this is an automatic boost to Save DC's of +3. Not to mention this conflicts directly with a Sorcerer as they do not have to memorize for the day, so a CHA boost would boost their spells known even though you say it cant. Not to mention this spell would be more usable by a wizard as that would give a +3 bonus to all their Intell skills including Spellcraft which would effectively boost them a +8 on that score. But to balance a boost in magic, I would say you get a -4 to str dex and con and a -4 to AC.
TheDarkestOfAngels 04-26-05, 06:14 PM	I'd say that, rather than simply loose what little way in combat options that they have (if they cast that spell, the caster is likely not going to resort to that dagger, quarterstaff, or skills, or whatever.) I'd say the "tensor's transformation-like" penalty would be that the caster MUST cast his spells and not choose to do anything else with a number of specified exceptions. Such exceptions could include that, if you have a move action, you can use it to move, but a spell must be cast in every round. If you have no useful spells to cast (either because you ran out, or the set you still have prepared are of absolutely no value - such as knock during a combat situation with no locked doors anywhere) if you choose to counterspell (but you must still cast at least one spell each round) or if you willingly choose to end the effects of the spell. that's what I would do. that way, this spell really turns you into a casting machine, but with the added danger of exhausting your supply of available spells per day. (basically a spell that makes "going nova" for a mage more useful.)
WindOwl 04-26-05, 06:25 PM	I declare that to be a great idea. :D
smrtgmp 04-26-05, 06:31 PM	I'd say the "tensor's transformation-like" penalty would be that the caster MUST cast his spells and not choose to do anything else with a number of specified exceptions.I like this suggestion. I also dont think the above spell is worth a 7th level slot. IMO it would be fine at 6th. Afterall, most of the benefits would probably go to waste on someone capable of casting the spell. By the time you are able to cast 7th level spells, its pretty much guaranteed that you will have an item that grants at least a +4 enhancement bonus to your prime casting stat, and you might even have a +6 by then. While the bonus on will saves is nice, its not as handy as the bonus to fort saves that tenser's provides, as any caster of that level will already have a helacious will save. Generally speaking, my wizards only fail will saves on a 1, so the +5 wont really do me any good. While the +5 on concentration checks is nice, I dont think it makes the spell worth a 7th level slot. Same goes for the Arcane Mastery feat. I generally pick that feat up as early as I can anyways (its one of the best caster feats around, IMO), so this spell woulndt really do anything for me. Personally, I would use a limitation like the one suggested by TheDarkestofAngels and then completely change what benefits the spell provides. I would go with something like a boost to CL and/or an unamed bonus to the DC of spells cast. That, IMO, would make this spell worth casting, even if it was left at 7th level.
Pennarin 04-26-05, 08:15 PM	The choice in the bonuses, and their power level, is thematic and based off of Tenser's. Tenser's makes you a fighting machine, give +4 to Str, Con, and Dex, while this spell makes you a better spellcaster, so no Fort save or Ref save bonuses. I boosted up the single +4 I was left with to +6, and gave a will save bonus, since that's what this spell does, it makes your will stronger. This spell is very good if you're a wizard who'se also has, say, 12 levels in another class. He automatically gains 12 caster levels, which means you cast this spell when you encounter the big baddy that has a higher caster level than you do. Btw, I believe stating "This spell does not affect your spells per day or spells known" does make it so that a Sorcerer won't gain more spells known. If the spell is put back to 6th level (what I seek) then it needs to be made to affect your fighting abilities, since those are diametrically opposed to your spellcasting. I don't think casting spells every round is a viable, or desirable, option. BAB +1 is bad for touch spells as has been mentionned. Maybe rendering it BAB +1 with any atk roll not made with a spell would work...
Pennarin 04-26-05, 08:17 PM	Suggestions outside of the scope of my question, such as changes to the bonuses, are welcome. :)
Pennarin 04-29-05, 03:39 AM	Anyone has more applicable suggestions to make?
smrtgmp 04-29-05, 05:27 AM	The choice in the bonuses, and their power level, is thematic and based off of Tenser's.I understand you rationale, I just dont think the Tenser's format works very well for a spell that augments what you're already good at. The transformation series grants you abilities that differ from your standard class abilities at the expense of your spellcasting. IMO, that doesnt apply well to a spell like this. This spell is very good if you're a wizard who'se also has, say, 12 levels in another class. He automatically gains 12 caster levels, which means you cast this spell when you encounter the big baddy that has a higher caster level than you do. So you're at least 25th level (12 levels of something and 13 levels of wizard to be able to cast 7th level spells) in this scenario. I think thats a bit of a stretch to make this spell out to be worth a 7th level slot. Your average multiclass caster probably took only a few non-caster levels before entering into a prestige class that allows for the simaltaneous advancement of two different character types (arcane trickster, eldritch knight, mystic theurge, etc) and the minor loss to caster level can be offset by the practiced spellcaster feat. I like the idea of a highish level spell that boosts your spellcasting abilities temporarily, I just dont think mimicing the current transformation series of spells is a good way to go about it.
Pennarin 04-29-05, 05:52 PM	I like the idea of a highish level spell that boosts your spellcasting abilities temporarily, I just dont think mimicing the current transformation series of spells is a good way to go about it. All right, this is a proposition. What do you have in mind? (I too think a spellcasting-boosting spell needs to be made.)
smrtgmp 04-29-05, 08:13 PM	Fair enough. I would go with something like: Arcane Nexus Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 7 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round/level At the culmination of this powerful spell, the caster is infused with eldritch might. Your arcane caster level is increased by +1/4 levels (to a max of +5 at CL 20). This increased caster level will not further enhance the effects of this spell. For example, a 13th level wizard casting this spell would gain a +3 bonus to his caster level, giving him a CL of 16. The bonus from this spell would not then increase to +4. Furthermore, the DC of any arcane spell you cast is increased by +2, and you recieve a +5 insight bonus to concentration and spellcraft checks. While this spell is in effect, you are filled with the utmost confidence in your spellcasting abilities, and you experience an exquisite euphoria when ever you cast a spell. As such, you disdain taking actions other than spellcaster. For the spells duration, you will not attack phyically or activate magical items of any kind (continuous use items, such as bracers of armor, remain active). You may still take move actions or a 5-ft step. Material Component:not sure what, flavor wise, but it should probably cost ~300-600gp. Obviously there is room for improvement for this spell. This is just off the top of my head. I just think something like this would be more useful to your average wizard/sorcerer.
Talchar 04-29-05, 09:58 PM	I'll throw in a couple of thoughts. IMO the current write is not a 7th level spell. , the enhancement and saves is more in line with a 5th level. What I would change. Ability Gains 1] +4 unnamed bonus to Spell Casting Attibute 2] -1 level offset to metamagic enhancements 3] Arcane Caster level bonus = 1/2 your arcane caster level (rounded down) 4] Keep the +5 inherit bonus to Concentration and Spell Craft Offsets 1] The caster is considered Non-proficient with any weapon & armor during the spell duration. 2] The caster must cast (or attempt to cast) a spell in each round. (failure to cast results in you being stunned for 1 round and the spell duration ceases) 3] Lose the (D) dispell option on the duration 4] Lose the Arcane Mastery component, in a short duration spell the mastery component does not make sense.
smrtgmp 04-30-05, 01:15 AM	-1 level offset to metamagic enhancements I like this idea but how would it affect wizards?
Talchar 04-30-05, 03:23 AM	I like this idea but how would it affect wizards? This could handled a couple of ways. 1] Allow the wizard to "spontaneously" add a level 1 metamagic to the spell. The feat so added would be selected when Arcanist’s Transformation is cast. Such as, all spells when cast under the effect of Arcanist’s Transformation have their somantic requirement removed (eg stilled) or extended, of silenced and so on... This option seems to be more in line with the spell as written. [ I could see that the spell description would have a list of applicable metamagic that could be applied to all spells cast. 2] Another way would be that the wizard gains the ability to "reclaim" +1 spell level slot per spell cast when under Arcanist's Transformation. Only spells cast of level 2 or higher, eligible to be partially reclaimed. These reclaimed spell slots are then organized by level and can be prepared by the wizard, as if they were empty spell slots. The wizard can allocate these spell slots in any way, with the only exception being that no spell slot to be reclaimed be greater then 3rd level. So, if you had a 13th level wizard, at the end of Arcanist's Transformation, he would have 13 spell levels worth of unused spell slots. He could allocate the 13 spell slots into : (2) level 3 slots, (2) Level two slots, (3) Level one slots.
Pennarin 04-30-05, 06:17 AM	I'm thinking notes, guys, this is looking good. I'll throw in: - Look up the Complete Warrior's Rage Mage PrC, specifically the Spell Rage class ability. It boosts one's spellcasting while making you less able to defend yourself, a good starting point for a spell adaptation. - Also, for you folk who got Dragon Magazine 277, the old Rage Mage build had the Spell Retention class ability, allowing you to cast spells without counting them against your daily limit as long as you're spell raging, a potential spellcasting boost to consider for the spell.