Post/Author/DateTime	Post
seans23 06-20-06, 05:58 PM	I know that the FAQ refers to corpses as objects. Are they still considered creatures? This is in reference to spells like Prismatic Wall, Wall of Good/Evil/Law/Chaos that state that if they are cast to materialize in a space occupied by a creature, then they are disrupted, and the spell is wasted. The spell descriptions don't say "living creatures." There are other spells that refer to dead creatures, like Animate Dead, so a dead creature must still be different than an object, right?
Erak 06-20-06, 06:01 PM	All dead creatures are objects.......not all objects are dead creatures, hence the different verbage for spells needing to target an object that also needs to be a dead creature.
seans23 06-20-06, 06:04 PM	All dead creatures are objects.......not all objects are dead creatures, hence the different verbage for spells needing to target an object that also needs to be a dead creature. Yes but are all dead creatures still "creatures" for the purpose of spells targeting creatures?
Thiez 06-20-06, 06:23 PM	No. All creatures have a wisdom and a charisma score. Corpses do not. In DnD, a corpse is as much a creature as a rock is. It doesn't say 'living creatures' because that would leave out undead and constucts.
seans23 06-20-06, 07:27 PM	No. All creatures have a wisdom and a charisma score. Corpses do not. In DnD, a corpse is as much a creature as a rock is. It still sounds odd to me. A dead creature is not a creature, but an object. It's not just an object, though, because certain spells target dead creatures, and we wouldn't want to start raising and animating rocks, now would we? Why use the term "Dead Creature" at all if it isn't a subset of "Creature"? Why not just use "corpse"?
Seeker95 06-20-06, 07:35 PM	Ditto and agreement with those noting that a corpse is an object. It is not a creature by *any* game mechanics definition of the term.
Part-Human2 06-21-06, 08:04 AM	Raise Dead & Reincarnation (et. al.) are "Target: Dead creature touched" spells. Poison and Regenerate (et al.) have "Target: Living creature touched". Some spells target "creatures". So there is both Living and Dead creatures. The FAQ says A dead body of any creature (warforged, human, dragon, whatever) is treated as an object... So Raise Dead, Resurrection and Reincarnation spells no longer work. Tada! Um, ya. Dead creatures are both "creatures" and are to be treated as an object.
Egres 06-21-06, 08:32 AM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4261971&mode=linear#post4261971 Have fun.:D
Seeker95 06-21-06, 09:29 AM	If the spell says "dead creature" as the target, that is the explicit target. Said dead creature is an object. Period. The wording on the spell is to prevent the spell from being cast on just any old object. It must be a very specific object. Nice attempt at a distraction, though.
Part-Human2 06-21-06, 05:04 PM	If the spell says "dead creature" as the target, that is the explicit target. Said dead creature is an object. Period. The wording on the spell is to prevent the spell from being cast on just any old object. It must be a very specific object. Nice attempt at a distraction, though. A "Creature" is anything that has a WIS & CHA score. A "Living Creature" is any kind of creature that has a CON score. So a "Dead Creature" is a distinct kind of object but not a creature even though it was a creature and has "creature" as one of its words? Okay, so, for example the Chill Metal spell says "Target: Metal equipment of one creature per two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart; or 25 lb. of metal/level, none of which can be more than 30 ft. away from any of the rest". You can't Chill Metal on a Dead creature but you can on a creature?t
cwslyclgh 06-21-06, 05:48 PM	You can't Chill Metal on a Dead creature but you can on a creaturecorrect, because a dead creature is an object not a creature. (Edit: as Erak spointed out below you could still chill metal on the metal equipment on the dead creature, although you would do so by targeting the metal and not the dead creature)
cwslyclgh 06-21-06, 05:52 PM	So a "Dead Creature" is a distinct kind of object but not a creature even though it was a creature and has "creature" as one of its words? this sort of terminology not so uncommon, incorporeal touch attacks are not really touch attacks. A spell with a ranged touch attack is not a touch range spell. casting a spell as a full round action is different then casting a spell with a casting time of 1 round. etc...
Masterfulks 06-21-06, 06:02 PM	I'd say it would work over a dead body, but not undead. A dead creature looks to me no different than a table or chair for that spell.
Erak 06-21-06, 06:50 PM	Okay, so, for example the Chill Metal spell says "Target: Metal equipment of one creature per two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart; or 25 lb. of metal/level, none of which can be more than 30 ft. away from any of the rest". You can't Chill Metal on a Dead creature but you can on a creature?t Why not? It says right there you can target 25 lb of metal/level. You simply touch the metal equipment still attached to the dead creature (object). Why you would want to do that I have no idea......but there is nothing stopping you.
Nom 06-21-06, 08:49 PM	A "dead creature" is not "creature (dead)". It is shorthand for "an object that is the corpse of something that was once a creature". This is English, not a formal representation language. The above example is analogous to "Food is good to eat. That is spoiled food. Therefore it is good to eat." Just as "spoiled food" is "food that is no longer food", a "dead creature" is "a creature that is no longer a creature".
Part-Human2 06-22-06, 07:43 AM	Why not? It says right there you can target 25 lb of metal/level. You simply touch the metal equipment still attached to the dead creature (object). Why you would want to do that I have no idea......but there is nothing stopping you. Gar, picked it almost at random but missed that part. Urm, okay. I'll buy it. A dead creature is an object and can't be affected by spells that target "creatures".