Are spellbooks magical? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are spellbooks magical? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Molitor
03-16-06, 12:16 PM Well that IS the question.....Are spell books magical? Do they show up as magical when detect magic is cast?

This is of course assuming no spells were cast on to the book, explosive runes, fire trap, etc.
Starman IX
03-16-06, 12:30 PM I'd figure so. If you could just get any old paper and jot down your spells, there'd be no reason for a spellbook.
Molitor
03-16-06, 12:46 PM But that's exactly what you do with a spellbook. You just jot down arcane language onto a piece of paper. Granted the components are expensive but not magical. If it were magical than a rogue could cast spells off of one, right?
Vedic Cold
03-16-06, 12:57 PM No, a spellbook is not inherently magical. It is simply an intrinsically valuable item, in terms of both material and content.
Antioch
03-16-06, 01:03 PM Spellbooks are not magical items on their own, though it is possible to enhance them in various ways (extra hardness or durability, water resistance, energy resistance, spell-trapping, etc) that would make them register as magic items. Spellbooks are simply made from durable materials which is why they cost only 15 gp. You can get spellbooks made of different materials aside from paper and leatherbound however (Complete Arcane has plenty of information on that).
I would think it possible to scribe a spell on any piece of paper or parchment, the only issue there being durability and shelf-life.

The major cost comes in scribing spells. Since this takes 100 gp per level of the spell, it would seem to be that you must purchase and write spells down using very valuable inks (perhaps also including pens and such). It should also be noted that you cannot cast spells from a spellbook like a scroll.
Seeker95
03-16-06, 01:51 PM Just chiming in with majority agreement.
Spellbooks are not magical.
tarkin
03-16-06, 02:04 PM Spellbooks are not magical.

And yes, you CAN write down a spell in just any old piece of paper.

Spellbooks cost 15gp for 100 pages of parchment.

A sheet of parchment costs 2 sp.

100 sheets = 200 sp = 20 gp.

Clearly you get a 5 gp discount plus free binding services for buying in bulk.
Egres
03-16-06, 03:33 PM Spellbook, Wizard’s (Blank): A spellbook has 100 pages of parchment, and each spell takes up one page per spell level (one page each for 0-level spells).

Listed on the mundane equipment chart.
Molitor
03-16-06, 03:38 PM Well we are in agreement then. Gosh that's rare.
CaoSlayer
03-16-06, 04:09 PM buuut...

it is a spell scroll a magical item?

it is true that the parchment isnt magical at all, but once you scribe it with magical writing, it becomes magical...

I think the same about spell books, they start as mundane books, but once magic it is wrote on it, becomes magical.
Puca
03-16-06, 04:26 PM If they are magic items, then of what kind?
Wondrous Items? Obviously not.

The way I see it, they are just tomes that include directions on how to cast a spell. That doesnt make them inherently magical.
Wind of Darkness
03-16-06, 06:51 PM buuut...

it is a spell scroll a magical item?

it is true that the parchment isnt magical at all, but once you scribe it with magical writing, it becomes magical...

I think the same about spell books, they start as mundane books, but once magic it is wrote on it, becomes magical.

A spell book is not a collection of scrolls. You cannot cast spells straight out of a spellbook, but you can from a scroll, because a scroll is imbued with magic power, while a spellbook is not.
WyldMooN
03-16-06, 07:35 PM Just consider from Complete Arcane, you can write your spellbook on yourself as tattoos...but you dont become magical. The inks and various materials used in its creation are alchemical, yes, but mundane. Just as antipoison and alechmical fire at not magical, spellsbooks arent.
Nayk
03-16-06, 09:20 PM A spell book is not a collection of scrolls. You cannot cast spells straight out of a spellbook, but you can from a scroll, because a scroll is imbued with magic power, while a spellbook is not.

it makes me think that we probably should do scroll books, instead of having separate scrolls in a scrollcase. having them indexed and organized could with realism, let you fastly pick the correct one you're searching. it should be tricky to get the ONE scroll among fifty in 3 seconds ;)
Millennium
03-16-06, 09:27 PM By themselves, spellbooks are not inherently magical. The words on the page may be magical, but the ink and paper and such are not.

However, most wizards "build" magical traps into their spellbooks, often by means of explosive runes, sepia snake sigil, and similar spells. Once a spellbook has been thus enchanted, then it will show up on detect magic and similar spells. I refer you again to the fact that most wizards do this.

Therefore, most spellbooks are likely to show up on detect magic. However, not all spellbooks necessarily do.
runestar
03-16-06, 09:51 PM it makes me think that we probably should do scroll books, instead of having separate scrolls in a scrollcase. having them indexed and organized could with realism, let you fastly pick the correct one you're searching. it should be tricky to get the ONE scroll among fifty in 3 seconds

Or maybe create some sort of voice-activated PDA where all your spell scrolls are digitally stored within... :cool:

*Access fireball - fireball shows up on the screen for your viewing pleasure...* :D
Seeker of Undeath
03-16-06, 10:25 PM Well that IS the question.....Are spell books magical? Do they show up as magical when detect magic is cast?

This is of course assuming no spells were cast on to the book, explosive runes, fire trap, etc.Assuming nothing was cast upon the book, no it's not magical. It's nothing but a mundane book with a wizard's notes for preparing spells. The book doesn't even contain spells, though many often forget that and try to use it like a scroll book.
Dragonteuthis
03-16-06, 10:35 PM I have to agree that, per the rules, spellbooks aren't magical items. However, I rule in my campaigns that they are. This is generally an advantage to the owner, since now the book doesn't have to be in his possession to make saving throws. Also, when the party advances into the Evil Boss Wizard's laboratory, marching over his corpse, and they see a massive tome, inscribed with the most expensive inks and illuminated by magical lights...it'd be anti-climactic to have it not be magical.

I'm not sure what I'd do if someone attempted to dispel a spellbook. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Kyuketsukiouji
03-16-06, 10:36 PM That's right. A spellbook is a collection of recipies for preparing and casting spells, with emphasis on the preparing part. That's what makes it impossible to use a book as a scroll, and the reason why you need more space for higher-level spells (who are, we can extrapolate, harder to prepare than low-level ones).
Chrono Nexus
03-16-06, 10:43 PM I see no damage in having a spellbook radiate an aura of universal if viewed under detect magic. Otherwise, they would be unchanged.
Nayk
03-16-06, 10:47 PM I'm not sure what I'd do if someone attempted to dispel a spellbook. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

if you consider it magical, may I suggest that dispel magic functions as normal

supression for 1d4 rounds should not really disturb the owner

for the contribution of this thread :

i throw myself with people who think that it should not be magical, it's a simple study book, while very dear to the wizard
Molitor
03-16-06, 11:17 PM By themselves, spellbooks are not inherently magical. The words on the page may be magical, but the ink and paper and such are not.

However, most wizards "build" magical traps into their spellbooks, often by means of explosive runes, sepia snake sigil, and similar spells. Once a spellbook has been thus enchanted, then it will show up on detect magic and similar spells. I refer you again to the fact that most wizards do this.

Therefore, most spellbooks are likely to show up on detect magic. However, not all spellbooks necessarily do.
Next time read what I wrote THEN respond. Not trying to be rude or nothing, it's just that what you wrote has already been stated.
tarkin
03-17-06, 11:55 AM One of the issues with making spellsbooks is the Anti-Magic reading zone.

As most wizards are likely to protect their spellbook using magic, if you follow the core rules and rule that spellbooks are not magical, you can bring one into an anti-magic zone, open it and read it freely, without concern about most defenses.

If you House Rule that it is magical, then doing so will reveal blank pages.

Hm. That gives me an idea.
Puca
03-17-06, 12:07 PM if you consider it magical, may I suggest that dispel magic functions as normal

supression for 1d4 rounds should not really disturb the ownerAh, but what about Disjunction?

Anyway, I think the big effect of them being magical or not would be, as someone mentioned, how they respond to magical effects that treat magical and nonmagical items differently, and definately needs to be considered before ruling them to be inherently magical.
TheFallenWriter
03-18-06, 02:29 PM To answer the question, no spellbooks are not magical items, they aare pieces of paper that cost a ton of money to scribe spells on becuase of hte materials used to write hte magical symbols, not the book itself. And if no one has answered it yet, for the scrolls, they are considered magical becuase they are spell completion items, you can cast a spell from a scroll, but not directly from a spell book.

~Thefallenwriter

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Molitor 03-16-06, 12:16 PM	Well that IS the question.....Are spell books magical? Do they show up as magical when detect magic is cast? This is of course assuming no spells were cast on to the book, explosive runes, fire trap, etc.
Starman IX 03-16-06, 12:30 PM	I'd figure so. If you could just get any old paper and jot down your spells, there'd be no reason for a spellbook.
Molitor 03-16-06, 12:46 PM	But that's exactly what you do with a spellbook. You just jot down arcane language onto a piece of paper. Granted the components are expensive but not magical. If it were magical than a rogue could cast spells off of one, right?
Vedic Cold 03-16-06, 12:57 PM	No, a spellbook is not inherently magical. It is simply an intrinsically valuable item, in terms of both material and content.
Antioch 03-16-06, 01:03 PM	Spellbooks are not magical items on their own, though it is possible to enhance them in various ways (extra hardness or durability, water resistance, energy resistance, spell-trapping, etc) that would make them register as magic items. Spellbooks are simply made from durable materials which is why they cost only 15 gp. You can get spellbooks made of different materials aside from paper and leatherbound however (Complete Arcane has plenty of information on that). I would think it possible to scribe a spell on any piece of paper or parchment, the only issue there being durability and shelf-life. The major cost comes in scribing spells. Since this takes 100 gp per level of the spell, it would seem to be that you must purchase and write spells down using very valuable inks (perhaps also including pens and such). It should also be noted that you cannot cast spells from a spellbook like a scroll.
Seeker95 03-16-06, 01:51 PM	Just chiming in with majority agreement. Spellbooks are not magical.
tarkin 03-16-06, 02:04 PM	Spellbooks are not magical. And yes, you CAN write down a spell in just any old piece of paper. Spellbooks cost 15gp for 100 pages of parchment. A sheet of parchment costs 2 sp. 100 sheets = 200 sp = 20 gp. Clearly you get a 5 gp discount plus free binding services for buying in bulk.
Egres 03-16-06, 03:33 PM	Spellbook, Wizard’s (Blank): A spellbook has 100 pages of parchment, and each spell takes up one page per spell level (one page each for 0-level spells). Listed on the mundane equipment chart.
Molitor 03-16-06, 03:38 PM	Well we are in agreement then. Gosh that's rare.
CaoSlayer 03-16-06, 04:09 PM	buuut... it is a spell scroll a magical item? it is true that the parchment isnt magical at all, but once you scribe it with magical writing, it becomes magical... I think the same about spell books, they start as mundane books, but once magic it is wrote on it, becomes magical.
Puca 03-16-06, 04:26 PM	If they are magic items, then of what kind? Wondrous Items? Obviously not. The way I see it, they are just tomes that include directions on how to cast a spell. That doesnt make them inherently magical.
Wind of Darkness 03-16-06, 06:51 PM	buuut... it is a spell scroll a magical item? it is true that the parchment isnt magical at all, but once you scribe it with magical writing, it becomes magical... I think the same about spell books, they start as mundane books, but once magic it is wrote on it, becomes magical. A spell book is not a collection of scrolls. You cannot cast spells straight out of a spellbook, but you can from a scroll, because a scroll is imbued with magic power, while a spellbook is not.
WyldMooN 03-16-06, 07:35 PM	Just consider from Complete Arcane, you can write your spellbook on yourself as tattoos...but you dont become magical. The inks and various materials used in its creation are alchemical, yes, but mundane. Just as antipoison and alechmical fire at not magical, spellsbooks arent.
Nayk 03-16-06, 09:20 PM	A spell book is not a collection of scrolls. You cannot cast spells straight out of a spellbook, but you can from a scroll, because a scroll is imbued with magic power, while a spellbook is not. it makes me think that we probably should do scroll books, instead of having separate scrolls in a scrollcase. having them indexed and organized could with realism, let you fastly pick the correct one you're searching. it should be tricky to get the ONE scroll among fifty in 3 seconds ;)
Millennium 03-16-06, 09:27 PM	By themselves, spellbooks are not inherently magical. The words on the page may be magical, but the ink and paper and such are not. However, most wizards "build" magical traps into their spellbooks, often by means of explosive runes, sepia snake sigil, and similar spells. Once a spellbook has been thus enchanted, then it will show up on detect magic and similar spells. I refer you again to the fact that most wizards do this. Therefore, most spellbooks are likely to show up on detect magic. However, not all spellbooks necessarily do.
runestar 03-16-06, 09:51 PM	it makes me think that we probably should do scroll books, instead of having separate scrolls in a scrollcase. having them indexed and organized could with realism, let you fastly pick the correct one you're searching. it should be tricky to get the ONE scroll among fifty in 3 seconds Or maybe create some sort of voice-activated PDA where all your spell scrolls are digitally stored within... :cool: Access fireball - fireball shows up on the screen for your viewing pleasure... :D
Seeker of Undeath 03-16-06, 10:25 PM	Well that IS the question.....Are spell books magical? Do they show up as magical when detect magic is cast? This is of course assuming no spells were cast on to the book, explosive runes, fire trap, etc.Assuming nothing was cast upon the book, no it's not magical. It's nothing but a mundane book with a wizard's notes for preparing spells. The book doesn't even contain spells, though many often forget that and try to use it like a scroll book.
Dragonteuthis 03-16-06, 10:35 PM	I have to agree that, per the rules, spellbooks aren't magical items. However, I rule in my campaigns that they are. This is generally an advantage to the owner, since now the book doesn't have to be in his possession to make saving throws. Also, when the party advances into the Evil Boss Wizard's laboratory, marching over his corpse, and they see a massive tome, inscribed with the most expensive inks and illuminated by magical lights...it'd be anti-climactic to have it not be magical. I'm not sure what I'd do if someone attempted to dispel a spellbook. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Kyuketsukiouji 03-16-06, 10:36 PM	That's right. A spellbook is a collection of recipies for preparing and casting spells, with emphasis on the preparing part. That's what makes it impossible to use a book as a scroll, and the reason why you need more space for higher-level spells (who are, we can extrapolate, harder to prepare than low-level ones).
Chrono Nexus 03-16-06, 10:43 PM	I see no damage in having a spellbook radiate an aura of universal if viewed under detect magic. Otherwise, they would be unchanged.
Nayk 03-16-06, 10:47 PM	I'm not sure what I'd do if someone attempted to dispel a spellbook. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. if you consider it magical, may I suggest that dispel magic functions as normal supression for 1d4 rounds should not really disturb the owner for the contribution of this thread : i throw myself with people who think that it should not be magical, it's a simple study book, while very dear to the wizard
Molitor 03-16-06, 11:17 PM	By themselves, spellbooks are not inherently magical. The words on the page may be magical, but the ink and paper and such are not. However, most wizards "build" magical traps into their spellbooks, often by means of explosive runes, sepia snake sigil, and similar spells. Once a spellbook has been thus enchanted, then it will show up on detect magic and similar spells. I refer you again to the fact that most wizards do this. Therefore, most spellbooks are likely to show up on detect magic. However, not all spellbooks necessarily do. Next time read what I wrote THEN respond. Not trying to be rude or nothing, it's just that what you wrote has already been stated.
tarkin 03-17-06, 11:55 AM	One of the issues with making spellsbooks is the Anti-Magic reading zone. As most wizards are likely to protect their spellbook using magic, if you follow the core rules and rule that spellbooks are not magical, you can bring one into an anti-magic zone, open it and read it freely, without concern about most defenses. If you House Rule that it is magical, then doing so will reveal blank pages. Hm. That gives me an idea.
Puca 03-17-06, 12:07 PM	if you consider it magical, may I suggest that dispel magic functions as normal supression for 1d4 rounds should not really disturb the ownerAh, but what about Disjunction? Anyway, I think the big effect of them being magical or not would be, as someone mentioned, how they respond to magical effects that treat magical and nonmagical items differently, and definately needs to be considered before ruling them to be inherently magical.
TheFallenWriter 03-18-06, 02:29 PM	To answer the question, no spellbooks are not magical items, they aare pieces of paper that cost a ton of money to scribe spells on becuase of hte materials used to write hte magical symbols, not the book itself. And if no one has answered it yet, for the scrolls, they are considered magical becuase they are spell completion items, you can cast a spell from a scroll, but not directly from a spell book. ~Thefallenwriter