Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fox Reeveheart 11-13-06, 05:41 PM	Of all the years I played I have casted only one single summon monster spell. And that was my first year and had no idea what I was doing. So I wonder exactly just how great are summon spells? Like how great would you call the summon monster spells? How great would you call monster summoning specific spells like manifest (and great manifest) draconic heritage which summons a wyvern with bonus hp (dragon turtle for greater) from RotD? What purpose do they serve?
Seeker95 11-13-06, 05:50 PM	In the hands of a sorcerer they are invaluable. Choose carefully the levels at which you will take them. Especially when you can summon elementals or other bruisers -- you can add another bruiser every round until you run out of slots. The only thing I like better than summoning as a sorcerer is summon cosntruct for my psion.
Arien_Drajanuma 11-13-06, 05:56 PM	The only thing I like better than summoning as a sorcerer is summon cosntruct for my psion. Amen to that Summoning can really turn a fight around. At lower lvls, a couple of well placed monsters can give your allies flanking positions, meat shields, and cover At higher lvls, monsters come in such a varied array of abilities that they can really turn a combat around... having trouble with a fast-moving monk? summon a dire wolf and trip it! flying enemies? summon flying mounts for your allies or flying monsters to take them on. Besides, remember that the summon monster spells don't only work on fighting situations. You need to convince a paladin to help you out? summon an angel and have HIM ask the paladin for help. Take a good look at the abilities of the monsters you can summon, there's a LOT of possibilities there!
crowclub 11-13-06, 05:57 PM	I've played a Summoning Druid and really enjoyed summoning Nature's Allies. Obviously they get better as you level and then after a while it's generally better to summon 1d3 or 1d4+1 from lower lists, although not always. Giant Crocodiles were fun at level 7, and I had a Giant Crocodile as a companion too for a while, he wasn't too popular in towns though ! All in all, my experience was a possitive one. Druids are broken though!
leather_book_wizard 11-13-06, 06:01 PM	I currently play a wizard specializing in Conjuration,and Summoning spells can work wonders!
Nezkrul 11-13-06, 06:04 PM	summoning provides battlefield control, backup, meatshields, cover, soft-cover, potions of healing for the guys that like to use life draining spells and abilities on "willing" targets :D , mounts, treasure carriers, diggers, movers, cleaners, food (if you cut off a limb of a summoned deer, but the deer don't die, you still have the limb right? :D ), information, etc.. etc.. Extend spell makes summoning more useful. And I love druids too, espeically when I can take Ashbound from the Eberron CS, and stack it with Extend Spell. :D
CryoSilver 11-13-06, 06:06 PM	Don't forget to take advantage of the SLAs of what you summon, either.
Kyuketsukiouji 11-13-06, 08:26 PM	Yes, summons can get pretty good, especially with the right feats. And recently, splatbooks have been getting generous with feats for summoners.
TheGogmagog 11-14-06, 07:52 AM	They only time I have seen summons at all effective was a character built around it (Gestalt Druid/Wizard (conjurer UA variant)). Wizard Conjurer gave up a familiar for bonuses to summons, plus augment summons made the summons a decent field control. That's still about all they were good for. They didn't contribute to the combat beyond offering flanking and keeping opponents from running.
Seeker95 11-14-06, 09:43 AM	They didn't contribute to the combat beyond offering flanking and keeping opponents from running.First, that is a pretty huge contribution. Second, some folks actually have the summoned creature attack. Third, summoned creatures are useful outside of combat too.
tarkin 11-15-06, 03:02 PM	More importantly, one summon Monster spell is EXTREMELY variable. Attacked in the water? Summon a swimming creature. Attacked by a flyer? Summon a flying creature. Attacked by a heat based creature? Summon a cold based one. Attacked by a Cold Based creature? Summon a fire based one. Smart Players can easily make EXTREMELY effective use of a Summon spell, if they cast it in the right manner. Yes, a direct damage spell may do more damage, but only if the creature happens NOT to be immune/resistant to that particular ability. Summon Spells are always a 'reasonable' choice, no matter what the encounter. But other spells typically have clear weaknessses that make them useless in quite a few occasions.
HeroOfthePeople 11-15-06, 03:25 PM	In the hands of a sorcerer they are invaluable. Choose carefully the levels at which you will take them. Especially when you can summon elementals or other bruisers -- you can add another bruiser every round until you run out of slots. The only thing I like better than summoning as a sorcerer is summon cosntruct for my psion. You are so right. Actually I am currently playing a summoner (sorcerer) and he is very good. Couldn't say it any better.
MagicJuggler 11-15-06, 03:31 PM	In a low-level campaign, Tactical Precision is a nasty spell to cast on summoned creatures, especially if you have enough. Each one getting +D6 damage/attack means you can zerg enemies quite effectively.
Orchomenos 11-15-06, 03:45 PM	While in a marsh, our party was attacked by two mudmaws (some crazy crocodile). One of them just received a vicious hit. My druid decided to summon a deer, using a level 1 spell slot, a few feet behind the mudmaw, who saw a much easier prey, and left us to our business. Well, the mudmaw will have a surprise when its meal will disappear, but we will be far... A single level 1 spell took care of a dangerous monster!
Devian 11-15-06, 11:17 PM	Deal poison with various monsters without having to accidently poison yourself from the application. Make life difficult for the opposing wizard by summoning a monster that has an exceptionally good grapple check. Already mentioned, many of the spell-like abilities and super-natural abilities monsters can use are very good. I personally find creatures that can Cure Serious Wounds very good, and those that can lay on hands can also be useful. For lower levels when you are afraid to take damage, cast invisibility and summon a monster to inflict damage for you while you buff your party with haste (and your bison), all while staying out of harms way (most of the time) and its safer and does greater damage than a fireball most days. Already mentioned, flanking bonuses. Additional attack of opportunities when a creature leaves a summoned creature's threatened square. Check with your DM and find out if you can replace the familiar with Rapid Summoning variant from UA to improve your summon spells making them even better.
nephsytis 11-16-06, 08:35 AM	summoning spells are quite versatile, and i always include them in my repetoire, they can slow the approaching orc hordes until the fighter dons his armour or for a diversion while you brace the door behind them, as well as the usual flanking and cover and combat bonuses. in my vote they rule, and you have to have very few spell slots to not make one of these worth it.