Are you aware of saves? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Are you aware of saves? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nameneeded
06-24-07, 10:30 PM When you make a say Will save are you aware if you failed or saved? For example If I cast Suggestion on you making you run around naked are you aware I cast it when you make the save? When you fail it are you aware it was cast on you after it runs out?

Can the same be said for Fort saves vs poisons and such? If you drink a poisoned wine and save do you know you were poisoned?

I am looking for RAW rules primairly but still want to hear your thoughts.
The_Unseen_Illusion
06-24-07, 10:38 PM I was actually wondering the same thing too. On page 177 in the PHB, it claims that if they make their save, they know a spell targeted them, but they're not aware of the source or what spell it was. But it has no input on whether your target knows it's under the influence of a spell
Horseshoe_Hermit
06-25-07, 12:28 AM It seems to me, that Hypnotism is the only spell which can keep the enspelled creature from realizing it has been enspelled. It says so in its description, but no other enchantment says this.

Obviously, during the enchantment, the creature can't do anything. But once it runs out... you do have memory of all the things you did. If you have any kind of thinker, you're going to say to yourself "Now why the hell did I just do all that?" And you can probably connect the dots back to the caster.

My DM always said that, when casting a spell with a target, even if it is silent, still, and without any perceptible effects; the target *will* be able to find out magic was used. If he makes the save, the book does day "You detect that someone just tried to use magic on you." If you don't make the save, it's still pretty obvious someone used magic on you.

Of course, if the DM has the guts (or is reckless enough), he can make it a little tougher for recipients to track down enchanters. Making the save has to be the giveaway no matter what, but say.... if you give in to a Suggestion, you look back on your actions as a .. well, strange sort of fluke. Just a lapse in judgment which only dedicated investigation can allow you to see for what it really was.

I think that this would give WAY too much power to low-level enchanters, though.
Avatar of Kokusho
06-25-07, 08:59 AM We usually work it like this: If you're forced to make a Will save vs. some kind of enchantment effect and you pass, you get a VERY slight and general idea of how it would have made you feel if you had failed. For instance:

Fighter passes Will save vs. Charm Person: For a very brief moment, you felt as if you were a bit more friendly towards <the caster>, but then you realized he's an evil bastard after all.
Person passes Fort save vs. poison: You felt a little weakened there for moment, but your body threw it off like a pro.
RikuKupo
06-25-07, 12:29 PM Me and my DM had this problem when we started our stealth-heavy campaign. How much the target knows is based on how well they passes/failed the save. Using the poison example, if the target beat the DC by only one or two points, they got sick or had a headache, but weren't hurt. If they beat it my a huge number like 15, they didn't even know they were poisoned. It kinda works opposite for spells, if they barely beat the DC, they just get a headache or hear a noise. If they pass with a decent number, they don't feel anything. If they pass with a huge number, and depending on character knowlege, the target may recognize it as a spell. It's mostly a case-by-case call though.
tarkin
06-25-07, 12:43 PM Officially you know you made a save, but you do not have any idea against what.

That is how the core books describe it.
mvincent
06-25-07, 03:28 PM From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow):
"Succeeding on a Saving Throw
A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack."
Pentar
06-25-07, 03:42 PM /agree on all aspects of the spell saves. As for ingesting poison, I would say that if you make the save, you probably notice there is something "off" about what you are eating and be inclined to stop (like rotten or spoiled food).

Basically, any time you're making a saving throw, you should be made aware that there was a threat to your person. Whether you are aware of the source of the threat is another matter. There are (as mentioned) specific instances where this is not the case, but those exceptions are spelled out clearly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nameneeded 06-24-07, 10:30 PM	When you make a say Will save are you aware if you failed or saved? For example If I cast Suggestion on you making you run around naked are you aware I cast it when you make the save? When you fail it are you aware it was cast on you after it runs out? Can the same be said for Fort saves vs poisons and such? If you drink a poisoned wine and save do you know you were poisoned? I am looking for RAW rules primairly but still want to hear your thoughts.
The_Unseen_Illusion 06-24-07, 10:38 PM	I was actually wondering the same thing too. On page 177 in the PHB, it claims that if they make their save, they know a spell targeted them, but they're not aware of the source or what spell it was. But it has no input on whether your target knows it's under the influence of a spell
Horseshoe_Hermit 06-25-07, 12:28 AM	It seems to me, that Hypnotism is the only spell which can keep the enspelled creature from realizing it has been enspelled. It says so in its description, but no other enchantment says this. Obviously, during the enchantment, the creature can't do anything. But once it runs out... you do have memory of all the things you did. If you have any kind of thinker, you're going to say to yourself "Now why the hell did I just do all that?" And you can probably connect the dots back to the caster. My DM always said that, when casting a spell with a target, even if it is silent, still, and without any perceptible effects; the target will be able to find out magic was used. If he makes the save, the book does day "You detect that someone just tried to use magic on you." If you don't make the save, it's still pretty obvious someone used magic on you. Of course, if the DM has the guts (or is reckless enough), he can make it a little tougher for recipients to track down enchanters. Making the save has to be the giveaway no matter what, but say.... if you give in to a Suggestion, you look back on your actions as a .. well, strange sort of fluke. Just a lapse in judgment which only dedicated investigation can allow you to see for what it really was. I think that this would give WAY too much power to low-level enchanters, though.
Avatar of Kokusho 06-25-07, 08:59 AM	We usually work it like this: If you're forced to make a Will save vs. some kind of enchantment effect and you pass, you get a VERY slight and general idea of how it would have made you feel if you had failed. For instance: Fighter passes Will save vs. Charm Person: For a very brief moment, you felt as if you were a bit more friendly towards <the caster>, but then you realized he's an evil bastard after all. Person passes Fort save vs. poison: You felt a little weakened there for moment, but your body threw it off like a pro.
RikuKupo 06-25-07, 12:29 PM	Me and my DM had this problem when we started our stealth-heavy campaign. How much the target knows is based on how well they passes/failed the save. Using the poison example, if the target beat the DC by only one or two points, they got sick or had a headache, but weren't hurt. If they beat it my a huge number like 15, they didn't even know they were poisoned. It kinda works opposite for spells, if they barely beat the DC, they just get a headache or hear a noise. If they pass with a decent number, they don't feel anything. If they pass with a huge number, and depending on character knowlege, the target may recognize it as a spell. It's mostly a case-by-case call though.
tarkin 06-25-07, 12:43 PM	Officially you know you made a save, but you do not have any idea against what. That is how the core books describe it.
mvincent 06-25-07, 03:28 PM	From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow): "Succeeding on a Saving Throw A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack."
Pentar 06-25-07, 03:42 PM	/agree on all aspects of the spell saves. As for ingesting poison, I would say that if you make the save, you probably notice there is something "off" about what you are eating and be inclined to stop (like rotten or spoiled food). Basically, any time you're making a saving throw, you should be made aware that there was a threat to your person. Whether you are aware of the source of the threat is another matter. There are (as mentioned) specific instances where this is not the case, but those exceptions are spelled out clearly.