Post/Author/DateTime	Post
joseccb 04-10-07, 12:23 PM	Anyone know of area damage spells that allow no saving throw???
NobodyRemembersThis 04-10-07, 12:32 PM	Not unless they do very little amounts of damage. AoE spells with no save do not exist in the CORE, and any splatbooks with them in it are are designed for Monte Cooke...er, I mean Mony Haul style games. Y'know, where balance is considered a bad word.
solbergb 04-10-07, 12:54 PM	..
solbergb 04-10-07, 12:54 PM	ice storm (a spell that would be great as a L3 spell, a bit underpowered for L4). wall of fire acid fog and incindiary fog (sorta) cloudkill (for con damage or very low hd critters) hail of stones (spell compendium) ring of blades(ditto) There are some. Not many, and most are aimed as much at battlefield control as damage.
tarkin 04-10-07, 12:57 PM	Set damage to 1/2 the normal maximums. Just like they did with Ice Storm, the 4th level spell in the PHB. Also note, Ice Storm is a GREAT 4th level spell Solbergb has misunderstood it. If you think it is just a good 3rd level, then you have tremdously misunderstood it's power. 1. Because of no save, it works on evasion characters. Against Rogues, this is fantastic. Try your fireball crap against a Rogue and he laughs. 2. It does things besides damage. Read the spell. Those are small, but not trivial. Fireball etc. doesn't do them. 3. It has a duration - so it prevents spellcasting unless you make a concentration check for that entire round. 4. It has a duration so it can be Extended. 5th level spell, does 5d6, no save, for two rounds. 10d6 total damage (unless they move, which they should not automatically do, as they don't know what is going on most times) 5. No save, 4th level. Can you say WAND!!!! ---------- At levels 7-8 it is a good deal damage wise. Then again at level 9-10 with an extend. This spell is one of the best wand spells, and has a solid range of 4 /20 levels where it is a killer spell (with a feat).
NobodyRemembersThis 04-10-07, 01:38 PM	Whoops, I stand corrected.
Moribund 04-10-07, 01:49 PM	Acid rain from Heroes of Battle is one of my all time favorite spells that grants no save (or SR for that matter) I think the holy storm spells also do not allow saves. Several spells in Complete Mage allow no save to avoid the damage (like caustic smoke). It would be nice if ice storm (and by extension acid rain) scaled some with level. A slow scale (e.g. 1 die/3 levels) probably wouldn't break it, but would keep it useful for more levels.
Emeramber 04-10-07, 02:24 PM	I'd a druid spell, as opposed to arcane, but Deadfall's only save is against being knocked prone. I love that spell. Damage, terrain manipulation, and raw materials all in one. Rocks... err.. trees fall, everyone dies.
solbergb 04-10-07, 08:21 PM	Set damage to 1/2 the normal maximums. Just like they did with Ice Storm, the 4th level spell in the PHB. Also note, Ice Storm is a GREAT 4th level spell Solbergb has misunderstood it. No, I totally understand it. I've seen it stacked up vs fireball on a warmage and sometimes you want one, sometimes the other. Ice storm starts out by giving up the half damage that most folks have to make a save to prevent, but gets to interfere with movement some, and reliably do some damage to people with blinking or evasion running. Versus most opponents, fireball is better. Some will take full damage, some the same damage as ice storm. Versus rogues, blinking spellcasters or situations where you want to interdict an area for a full round (halving movement and forcing damage to enter it) ice storm is better. Sometimes the cylendrical targeting is easier to place than the spread of fireball too....if you like wall spells for example. It's a good spell - at level 3, when it can be ramped up with the same metamagic that is used on fireball for when it's better than fireball. At L4, it is competing with more potent utility spells (in particular, dim door and improved invis) and battlefield control spells (solid fog and evards) and the "orb" spells. That's a competition it usually loses, especially as it is SR=yes. It's direct damage fireball-like L4 competitor "blast of flame" is SR=no. It's good on a wand, but it's the same price with L7 casting as a L10 fireball wand. I should have an NPC warmage with craft wand, just to crank out CL5 L3 ice storm wands. He'd be rich as Midas. I enjoy having both options on a warmage and when I had an NPC sorcerer with both spells, fighting PC's I tended to reach for ice storm (PC's being more likely to be blinking, or have evasion, or fire resistance or mobility that you want to interdict than your average opponent). But I've never seen a prep caster or a PC sorcerer choose the spell at level 4. The competition for good spells is just too stiff at L4.
Lafing Cat 04-10-07, 10:59 PM	Vortex of Teeth is fun. 3d8 force damage a round for 1 rnd/level in a *40* foot radius spread. 4th level Sor/Wiz druid spell. It does have a 5 foot radius hole in the center, so unless you're centering it on yourself, or fighting a huge creature, they can hide from it in there.
NobodyRemembersThis 04-10-07, 11:05 PM	Has to be a targetd spell of 3rd level or less. Vortex of Teeth wouldn't work.
Lafing Cat 04-11-07, 12:21 AM	Has to be a targetd spell of 3rd level or less. Vortex of Teeth wouldn't work. Are you by chance confusing this thread with the thread talking about good things to put in spell-storing weapons?
SunTzuWarmaster 04-11-07, 10:00 AM	Evards Black Tentacles is a no-save area damage spell... Kind of... I mean, it is an area spell that slows movement, is immune to damage, and people take damage on failed grapple checks (which are reasonable high).
Kursk 04-11-07, 10:44 AM	Set damage to 1/2 the normal maximums. Just like they did with Ice Storm, the 4th level spell in the PHB. [b]Also note, Ice Storm is a Good tactical analysis Tarkin.