Area Dispel [Archive] - Wizards Community

Area Dispel [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gnarl
11-30-06, 08:16 AM Hi everyone,

I'm not sure I understand each and every part of the area dispel description of the dispel magic spell.

How would the spell work with regards to magic circle against evil and magic vestment?

Let’s assume we have a 5th level cleric that casts magic vestment on his armor, magic circle against evil centered on himself and shield of faith on himself

Evil wizard casts an area dispel on the party. How many spells could he dispel in one stroke? I would say he could dispel all 3 because:

Shield of Faith falls under the category: "For each creature within the area that is the subject of one or more spells" because it affects the touched creature.

Magic Vestment falls under the category: "For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells" because the armor not the cleric is affected by the spell.

Magic Circle against Evil falls under the category: "For each ongoing area or effect spell whose point of origin is within" (or the last one if it's origin is not in the area).

I'm not sure at all this would work like this and if I'm wrong I'd really like to know. As a side note, a Target Dispel magic would only affect the Shield of Faith for the same reasons.

Thank you for your help,

Gnarl
tarkin
11-30-06, 10:42 AM You could only dispell one of those, but a targetted Dispell would destroy all three.

Spells cast on attended magic items count as being cast on the attender, for purposes of Dispell Magic. Basically, attended objects are considered part of the person.

As such, you can't dispell both the Shield of Faith and the Magic Vestament.

Similarly, the Magic Circle (cast "outwards") emantates from the caster, so it also counts as a personal spell. It does not matter that it extends outside of the person, it targets the person and emantates from them.

(Note it would be different if you cast the Magic Circle "Inwards" then summoned a creature into it.)
Gnarl
11-30-06, 03:02 PM You could only dispell one of those, but a targetted Dispell would destroy all three.

Spells cast on attended magic items count as being cast on the attender, for purposes of Dispell Magic. Basically, attended objects are considered part of the person.

As such, you can't dispell both the Shield of Faith and the Magic Vestament.

Similarly, the Magic Circle (cast "outwards") emantates from the caster, so it also counts as a personal spell. It does not matter that it extends outside of the person, it targets the person and emantates from them.

(Note it would be different if you cast the Magic Circle "Inwards" then summoned a creature into it.)

It sounds fair enough. It makes one version of the spell a lot better than another though. You're usualy good advice but do you have something to support this or that's just the way the people you play with consider fair?
tarkin
11-30-06, 05:10 PM The relevant section on Area Dispell:

For each creature within the area that is the subject of one or more spells, you make a dispel check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that check fails, you make dispel checks against progressively weaker spells until you dispel one spell (which discharges the dispel magic spell so far as that target is concerned) or until you fail all your checks. The creature’s magic items are not affected.

For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel.

For each ongoing area or effect spell whose point of origin is within the area of the dispel magic spell, you can make a dispel check to dispel the spell.

For each ongoing spell whose area overlaps that of the dispel magic spell, you can make a dispel check to end the effect, but only within the overlapping area.

If an object or creature that is the effect of an ongoing spell (such as a monster summoned by monster summoning) is in the area, you can make a dispel check to end the spell that conjured that object or creature (returning it whence it came) in addition to attempting to dispel spells targeting the creature or object.

You may choose to automatically succeed on dispel checks against any spell that you have cast.

So there are the following choices:

Creature subject to spell(s)
Object Targeted
Ongoing Area or Effect centered in
Area Overlaping but NOT centered
Object/creatur that is the effect

OK, Shield of Faith is definitely a Number 1.

Magic Vestament is harder. At first glance, it seems to be #2. I am willing to admit I may simply be "the way people I know play". But it is consistent with the general rules about held objects being considered part of you, and honestly, you are not really trying to magically enchant the object, but instead provide AC to the wearer.
So that is how I would play it, but can easily see being wrong, and you being right about it.

The Magic Circle however is clearer. It is a touch spell, so it is on the creature and counts as #1. It does NOT have a 'point of origin', it has a creature of origin. Creatures have mass, weight, length, hieght, and therefore are not points. So not #3. You could argue that #4 applies, but that is against the spirit of the spell, which is "each thing gets ONE check to dispell"
Gnarl
12-01-06, 04:05 AM The relevant section on Area Dispell:

So there are the following choices:

Creature subject to spell(s)
Object Targeted
Ongoing Area or Effect centered in
Area Overlaping but NOT centered
Object/creatur that is the effect

OK, Shield of Faith is definitely a Number 1.

Magic Vestament is harder. At first glance, it seems to be #2. I am willing to admit I may simply be "the way people I know play". But it is consistent with the general rules about held objects being considered part of you, and honestly, you are not really trying to magically enchant the object, but instead provide AC to the wearer.
So that is how I would play it, but can easily see being wrong, and you being right about it.

The Magic Circle however is clearer. It is a touch spell, so it is on the creature and counts as #1. It does NOT have a 'point of origin', it has a creature of origin. Creatures have mass, weight, length, hieght, and therefore are not points. So not #3. You could argue that #4 applies, but that is against the spirit of the spell, which is "each thing gets ONE check to dispell"

Thanks again. We have always played it the way you do but I had doubts on whether we were playing it right or not :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gnarl 11-30-06, 08:16 AM	Hi everyone, I'm not sure I understand each and every part of the area dispel description of the dispel magic spell. How would the spell work with regards to magic circle against evil and magic vestment? Let’s assume we have a 5th level cleric that casts magic vestment on his armor, magic circle against evil centered on himself and shield of faith on himself Evil wizard casts an area dispel on the party. How many spells could he dispel in one stroke? I would say he could dispel all 3 because: Shield of Faith falls under the category: "For each creature within the area that is the subject of one or more spells" because it affects the touched creature. Magic Vestment falls under the category: "For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells" because the armor not the cleric is affected by the spell. Magic Circle against Evil falls under the category: "For each ongoing area or effect spell whose point of origin is within" (or the last one if it's origin is not in the area). I'm not sure at all this would work like this and if I'm wrong I'd really like to know. As a side note, a Target Dispel magic would only affect the Shield of Faith for the same reasons. Thank you for your help, Gnarl
tarkin 11-30-06, 10:42 AM	You could only dispell one of those, but a targetted Dispell would destroy all three. Spells cast on attended magic items count as being cast on the attender, for purposes of Dispell Magic. Basically, attended objects are considered part of the person. As such, you can't dispell both the Shield of Faith and the Magic Vestament. Similarly, the Magic Circle (cast "outwards") emantates from the caster, so it also counts as a personal spell. It does not matter that it extends outside of the person, it targets the person and emantates from them. (Note it would be different if you cast the Magic Circle "Inwards" then summoned a creature into it.)
Gnarl 11-30-06, 03:02 PM	You could only dispell one of those, but a targetted Dispell would destroy all three. Spells cast on attended magic items count as being cast on the attender, for purposes of Dispell Magic. Basically, attended objects are considered part of the person. As such, you can't dispell both the Shield of Faith and the Magic Vestament. Similarly, the Magic Circle (cast "outwards") emantates from the caster, so it also counts as a personal spell. It does not matter that it extends outside of the person, it targets the person and emantates from them. (Note it would be different if you cast the Magic Circle "Inwards" then summoned a creature into it.) It sounds fair enough. It makes one version of the spell a lot better than another though. You're usualy good advice but do you have something to support this or that's just the way the people you play with consider fair?
tarkin 11-30-06, 05:10 PM	The relevant section on Area Dispell: For each creature within the area that is the subject of one or more spells, you make a dispel check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that check fails, you make dispel checks against progressively weaker spells until you dispel one spell (which discharges the dispel magic spell so far as that target is concerned) or until you fail all your checks. The creature’s magic items are not affected. For each object within the area that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as with creatures. Magic items are not affected by an area dispel. For each ongoing area or effect spell whose point of origin is within the area of the dispel magic spell, you can make a dispel check to dispel the spell. For each ongoing spell whose area overlaps that of the dispel magic spell, you can make a dispel check to end the effect, but only within the overlapping area. If an object or creature that is the effect of an ongoing spell (such as a monster summoned by monster summoning) is in the area, you can make a dispel check to end the spell that conjured that object or creature (returning it whence it came) in addition to attempting to dispel spells targeting the creature or object. You may choose to automatically succeed on dispel checks against any spell that you have cast. So there are the following choices: Creature subject to spell(s) Object Targeted Ongoing Area or Effect centered in Area Overlaping but NOT centered Object/creatur that is the effect OK, Shield of Faith is definitely a Number 1. Magic Vestament is harder. At first glance, it seems to be #2. I am willing to admit I may simply be "the way people I know play". But it is consistent with the general rules about held objects being considered part of you, and honestly, you are not really trying to magically enchant the object, but instead provide AC to the wearer. So that is how I would play it, but can easily see being wrong, and you being right about it. The Magic Circle however is clearer. It is a touch spell, so it is on the creature and counts as #1. It does NOT have a 'point of origin', it has a creature of origin. Creatures have mass, weight, length, hieght, and therefore are not points. So not #3. You could argue that #4 applies, but that is against the spirit of the spell, which is "each thing gets ONE check to dispell"
Gnarl 12-01-06, 04:05 AM	The relevant section on Area Dispell: So there are the following choices: Creature subject to spell(s) Object Targeted Ongoing Area or Effect centered in Area Overlaping but NOT centered Object/creatur that is the effect OK, Shield of Faith is definitely a Number 1. Magic Vestament is harder. At first glance, it seems to be #2. I am willing to admit I may simply be "the way people I know play". But it is consistent with the general rules about held objects being considered part of you, and honestly, you are not really trying to magically enchant the object, but instead provide AC to the wearer. So that is how I would play it, but can easily see being wrong, and you being right about it. The Magic Circle however is clearer. It is a touch spell, so it is on the creature and counts as #1. It does NOT have a 'point of origin', it has a creature of origin. Creatures have mass, weight, length, hieght, and therefore are not points. So not #3. You could argue that #4 applies, but that is against the spirit of the spell, which is "each thing gets ONE check to dispell" Thanks again. We have always played it the way you do but I had doubts on whether we were playing it right or not :D