Area of effect spells and combat grid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Area of effect spells and combat grid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gnarl
02-24-06, 02:14 PM Hi,

Hi, I'm having trouble understanding how the Call Lightening spell works with regards to the combat grid.

Can you target up to 4 squares with Call Lightening (all squares adjacant to the point of origine, and the point of origine is a grid intersection), or you can only target a single square?

Thanks
The_Ditto
02-24-06, 02:23 PM Ask your DM which way he swings:

Argument 1: Single target - 1 square ...

Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.

Emphasis on the choice of wording here: "target square" ie singular ...
"any creature" as opposed to "all creatures"

(for contrast, this blurb pulled from the Lightning Bolt description)

You release a powerful stroke of electrical energy that deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to each creature within its area. The bolt begins at your fingertips.

Seems to indicate that call lightning is less of an "area" as lightning bolt, and more of a single square target effect.

And now for Devil's Advocate:

Argument 2: 10'x10' area affected, as per base rules of spells:

Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.

It clearly specifies a "target point" .. and as per basic spell rules:

Area: Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.
Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.

ergo ... 10'x10' block of 4 squares ... (ie up to 4 creatures).

===========

Our group plays by Argument #2.
:tiphat:
steventirey1985
02-24-06, 02:55 PM Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.

It clearly says target square, not target intersection. Therefore, argument #2 is wrong.

Originally Posted by SRD
Area: Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.
Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.

ergo ... 10'x10' block of 4 squares ... (ie up to 4 creatures).

Except Call Lightning is not an area effect spell. Spells that effect and area have the area they effect in their stat block. Example:

Calm Emotions
Area: creatures in a 20-ft.-radius spread

and Fireball
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Gnarl
02-24-06, 03:01 PM I'm the DM so I guess I'll have to choose.

We currently play it using argument 1.

The last sentence of the paragraph you (ditto) quoted:
If the spell's area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell

I know my english is somewhat limited, but doesn't argument 2 (and the above) also imply that the spell wouldn't be affecting anything?

Any other opinions are welcomed.

Thanks

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gnarl 02-24-06, 02:14 PM	Hi, Hi, I'm having trouble understanding how the Call Lightening spell works with regards to the combat grid. Can you target up to 4 squares with Call Lightening (all squares adjacant to the point of origine, and the point of origine is a grid intersection), or you can only target a single square? Thanks
The_Ditto 02-24-06, 02:23 PM	Ask your DM which way he swings: Argument 1: Single target - 1 square ... Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected. Emphasis on the choice of wording here: "target square" ie singular ... "any creature" as opposed to "all creatures" (for contrast, this blurb pulled from the Lightning Bolt description) You release a powerful stroke of electrical energy that deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to each creature within its area. The bolt begins at your fingertips. Seems to indicate that call lightning is less of an "area" as lightning bolt, and more of a single square target effect. And now for Devil's Advocate: Argument 2: 10'x10' area affected, as per base rules of spells: Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected. It clearly specifies a "target point" .. and as per basic spell rules: Area: Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below. Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection. ergo ... 10'x10' block of 4 squares ... (ie up to 4 creatures). =========== Our group plays by Argument #2. :tiphat:
steventirey1985 02-24-06, 02:55 PM	Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected. It clearly says target square, not target intersection. Therefore, argument #2 is wrong. Originally Posted by SRD Area: Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below. Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection. ergo ... 10'x10' block of 4 squares ... (ie up to 4 creatures). Except Call Lightning is not an area effect spell. Spells that effect and area have the area they effect in their stat block. Example: Calm Emotions Area: creatures in a 20-ft.-radius spread and Fireball Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Gnarl 02-24-06, 03:01 PM	I'm the DM so I guess I'll have to choose. We currently play it using argument 1. The last sentence of the paragraph you (ditto) quoted: If the spell's area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell I know my english is somewhat limited, but doesn't argument 2 (and the above) also imply that the spell wouldn't be affecting anything? Any other opinions are welcomed. Thanks