Area saves & rogues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Area saves & rogues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aralen
01-27-06, 10:03 AM Hi! I needed to talk about this with someone.

I think that a rogue getting no damage when he gets a succesfull saving throw of reflex against, ie, a fireball, is a really stupid thing. Since its a explosion, i move the PCs out of the area of the fireball when they get the throw. Same with a lighting bolt (they take a 5' step to get out from the area). Of course, im talking about getting a good throw.

Sorry about my english.
Radijs
01-27-06, 10:24 AM And your point is?

So rogues & monks get no damage on a succesful save. Is this a problem or something?
Sounds like a pretty good thing to me. Otherwise a rogue who only has a D6 hit die would probably get killed on his second fireball. It balances out that the rogue has very little HP.
Aralen
01-27-06, 11:29 AM I want to see you side-by-side to souch an big explosion and getting out harmless.
My point is, when you have a succesful save, you manage to get out of the area before the explosion (so, your character moves to the closest square out of the explosion). Is this house rule cool?
Zherog
01-27-06, 11:49 AM I've seen it, and I've heard from people that use it say it works fine. I personally don't like it.

A successful Relfex save (and therefore use of evasion) against (as an example) a fireball doesn't necessarily mean you managed to get outside the range of the spell; it could mean any of a number of things:

You pulled your cloak up over your head and crouched down just in time.
You located an "empty" spot within the spell.
The gods smiled upon you and protected you.

And probably a dozen other solutions if I really put my mind to it.
tarkin
01-27-06, 01:23 PM I believe the problem is that you are having a very different idea of what bursts and spreads are then what WoTC intended.

First of all, NO, PLAYERS DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE AREA WHEN THEY MAKE A SAVE. That is a wierd House Rule that you made up. While there are some saving throws that move you out of an area, that is rare, not common. You only need a 2 1/2 ft area to get a save (using WoTC rules, if you are in a tunnel of less than 2 1/2 ft radius, you don't get a save throw)

You see, fireballs are not solid spheres of fire. They are explosions with bits of fire that shoot out, getting some areas, but leaving some areas TOTALLY unharmed.

Normally, making a saving throw means you twisted your body so that part of you body is not in the path of that flame/lightning/cold/whatever.

When a Rogue makes Evasion, they have contorted their body so that none of it was hit by the element/whatever.
Kursk
01-27-06, 10:58 PM I want to see you side-by-side to souch an big explosion and getting out harmless.
My point is, when you have a succesful save, you manage to get out of the area before the explosion (so, your character moves to the closest square out of the explosion). Is this house rule cool?

Personally I'd would like to see someone throw a fireball at all. Maybe that isn't real. Oh, wait a sec... This is a fantasy game! :lightbulb
Ralphius_Maximus
01-28-06, 08:46 AM You see, fireballs are not solid spheres of fire. They are explosions with bits of fire that shoot out, getting some areas, but leaving some areas TOTALLY unharmed.

Normally, making a saving throw means you twisted your body so that part of you body is not in the path of that flame/lightning/cold/whatever.

Are you sure of this?

I have always seen the reflex save in this situation as finding something to shelter behind, since the effect radiates out from a central point and can be blocked by obstructions.
Zherog
01-28-06, 10:45 AM Your explanation works quite often, Ralphius_Maximus. But, for example, a naked man with no possessions in the middle of a barren field still gets a Reflex save, and if he has evasion he takes no damage. What'd he hide behind? ;)
Someone
01-28-06, 12:15 PM A Reflex save doesn't involve going all Matrix-y. It can be simple things like closing your eyes and holding your breath as the burst of heat washes over you. Sure, you might be just as singed, but the hit point loss is reduced.

And don't forget that classes other than rogue get evasion.
Merrill_Clarke
01-29-06, 06:37 PM ... What about Resilient Sphere? Are you going to say they're standing on top of the square?

And that would still be moving out of their original square (Well, cube)

Just food for thought, I'm not convicted to either way of doing it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aralen 01-27-06, 10:03 AM	Hi! I needed to talk about this with someone. I think that a rogue getting no damage when he gets a succesfull saving throw of reflex against, ie, a fireball, is a really stupid thing. Since its a explosion, i move the PCs out of the area of the fireball when they get the throw. Same with a lighting bolt (they take a 5' step to get out from the area). Of course, im talking about getting a good throw. Sorry about my english.
Radijs 01-27-06, 10:24 AM	And your point is? So rogues & monks get no damage on a succesful save. Is this a problem or something? Sounds like a pretty good thing to me. Otherwise a rogue who only has a D6 hit die would probably get killed on his second fireball. It balances out that the rogue has very little HP.
Aralen 01-27-06, 11:29 AM	I want to see you side-by-side to souch an big explosion and getting out harmless. My point is, when you have a succesful save, you manage to get out of the area before the explosion (so, your character moves to the closest square out of the explosion). Is this house rule cool?
Zherog 01-27-06, 11:49 AM	I've seen it, and I've heard from people that use it say it works fine. I personally don't like it. A successful Relfex save (and therefore use of evasion) against (as an example) a fireball doesn't necessarily mean you managed to get outside the range of the spell; it could mean any of a number of things: You pulled your cloak up over your head and crouched down just in time. You located an "empty" spot within the spell. The gods smiled upon you and protected you. And probably a dozen other solutions if I really put my mind to it.
tarkin 01-27-06, 01:23 PM	I believe the problem is that you are having a very different idea of what bursts and spreads are then what WoTC intended. First of all, NO, PLAYERS DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE AREA WHEN THEY MAKE A SAVE. That is a wierd House Rule that you made up. While there are some saving throws that move you out of an area, that is rare, not common. You only need a 2 1/2 ft area to get a save (using WoTC rules, if you are in a tunnel of less than 2 1/2 ft radius, you don't get a save throw) You see, fireballs are not solid spheres of fire. They are explosions with bits of fire that shoot out, getting some areas, but leaving some areas TOTALLY unharmed. Normally, making a saving throw means you twisted your body so that part of you body is not in the path of that flame/lightning/cold/whatever. When a Rogue makes Evasion, they have contorted their body so that none of it was hit by the element/whatever.
Kursk 01-27-06, 10:58 PM	I want to see you side-by-side to souch an big explosion and getting out harmless. My point is, when you have a succesful save, you manage to get out of the area before the explosion (so, your character moves to the closest square out of the explosion). Is this house rule cool? Personally I'd would like to see someone throw a fireball at all. Maybe that isn't real. Oh, wait a sec... This is a fantasy game! :lightbulb
Ralphius_Maximus 01-28-06, 08:46 AM	You see, fireballs are not solid spheres of fire. They are explosions with bits of fire that shoot out, getting some areas, but leaving some areas TOTALLY unharmed. Normally, making a saving throw means you twisted your body so that part of you body is not in the path of that flame/lightning/cold/whatever. Are you sure of this? I have always seen the reflex save in this situation as finding something to shelter behind, since the effect radiates out from a central point and can be blocked by obstructions.
Zherog 01-28-06, 10:45 AM	Your explanation works quite often, Ralphius_Maximus. But, for example, a naked man with no possessions in the middle of a barren field still gets a Reflex save, and if he has evasion he takes no damage. What'd he hide behind? ;)
Someone 01-28-06, 12:15 PM	A Reflex save doesn't involve going all Matrix-y. It can be simple things like closing your eyes and holding your breath as the burst of heat washes over you. Sure, you might be just as singed, but the hit point loss is reduced. And don't forget that classes other than rogue get evasion.
Merrill_Clarke 01-29-06, 06:37 PM	... What about Resilient Sphere? Are you going to say they're standing on top of the square? And that would still be moving out of their original square (Well, cube) Just food for thought, I'm not convicted to either way of doing it.