Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shoes 04-24-04, 12:47 AM	Ok, I've been wondering about this for a while know and this probably has been discussed and clarified already. So, excatly why is it magical armor is only half the price of a magical weapon of the same enhancement bonus? A +1 to hit vs a +1 AC makes it more expensive because of that? Or is it because of special abilities added on to each piece of equipment?
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-24-04, 01:01 AM	Magical armor is far less useful than a magical weapon. Those pluses don't add to your AC.
bitnine 04-24-04, 01:06 AM	Pound for pound there's certainly a performance difference between the two that's reflected in the price.
DemonMonkeyBoy 04-24-04, 02:06 AM	:b: There is a simply answer to this and that is because armor is a slotted item and weapons are not. Most people only carry one maybe, if the DM is very nice, two suite of armor. That and in the middle of combat it's next to impossible to change your armor. Where as with weapons you could have as many as the DM will give you and you could use a different weapon each round if you wanted.
Hot Rod 04-24-04, 02:17 AM	I always thought it was because a +1 sword is +1 to hit and +1 to damage, while armor adds to AC only...
Sancus 04-24-04, 02:44 AM	There is a simply answer to this and that is because armor is a slotted item and weapons are not. That's incorrect. Weapons are slotted. They use a hand slot. That is considered a slot. Hence wands, staves, and rods, are all slotted. The reason armor is cheaper is because defensive bonuses are worth less than offensive bonuses, in general.
DemonMonkeyBoy 04-24-04, 02:57 AM	:b: The following is a list of all the body slots. Please highlight where it lists weapons, wands, staves, and rods 3.5SRD MAGIC ITEMS ON THE BODY Many magic items need to be donned by a character who wants to employ them or benefit from their abilities. It’s possible for a creature with a humanoid-shaped body to wear as many as twelve magic items at the same time. However, each of those items must be worn on (or over) a particular part of the body. A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn. One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt) One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor) One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor) One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand) One pair of boots or shoes on the feet Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those listed above have no effect. Some items can be worn or carried without taking up space on a character’s body. The description of an item indicates when an item has this property. Look closely you won't find them because they are slottless. Altho we do find armor there don't we?
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-24-04, 03:35 AM	Originally posted by Hot Rod I always thought it was because a +1 sword is +1 to hit and +1 to damage, while armor adds to AC only... No, it subtracts from check penalty. That's why it sucks.
MystErikEry 04-24-04, 04:08 AM	What? I'm pretty sure that magical armor increases your AC. Masterwork armor reduces Armor Check Penalties. Take a look at the SRD: In general, magic armor protects the wearer to a greater extent than nonmagical armor. Magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses, never rise above +5, and stack with regular armor bonuses (and with shield and magic shield enhancement bonuses). All magic armor is also masterwork armor, reducing armor check penalties by 1. In addition to an enhancement bonus, armor may have special abilities. Special abilities usually count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of an item, but do not improve AC. A suit of armor cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A suit of armor with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. This says, first of all, that the magic armor bonuses are enhancement bonuses up to +5, which stack with regular armor bonuses and shield bonuses. That's AC, buddy. Then it says that armor check penalties are reduced by one. Which is, of course, what masterwork armor does. Then it goes on to say that armor may have special abilities, which count as additional enhancement bonuses as for cost, but don't improve AC. This suggests that the ordinary bonuses DO improve AC. Thus, a suit of armor +5 increases your AC by 5 compared to ordinary armor, and also lowers Armor Check Penalty by 1 due to being masterwork.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-24-04, 04:11 AM	hmm... guess my houserule wasn't a houserule.
Elrana 04-24-04, 04:31 AM	I was asked to delete this as someone found it offensive, so I have. Personally I wouldn't take posts on a message board personally but there you go. It takes all sorts I suppose.
Shoes 04-24-04, 05:00 AM	Well, intresting and all, but back to my original question. Why again is it that armor cost only half the amount of a magical weapon? To be more precise, why in the DMG for magical item creation that WotC placed magical armor price less then magical weapon prices? Same goes for masterwork equipment, +150gp armor vs +300gp weapon?
DDRGasm 04-24-04, 12:49 PM	As someone said earlier, generally offensive items are more useful than defensive items, but here are some specific reasons enhancements to Weapons are twice as expensive as enhancements to Armor: 1) With a weapon, the character wielding it chooses when to use it. For a fighter, a magical weapon is useful in every situation (and usually every round!). Armor, on the other hand, is only used when the DM chooses to use it. If your fighter ends up fighting a lot of spellcasters, his enhancement bonus to armor might not come up for an entire encounter. Simply put - you use your weapon more than you use your armor. 2) A +1 weapon grants a +1 to attack and damage. A suit of +1 armor only grants a +1 to Armor Class. Two +'s instead of one. 3) Every level, a fighter (and most monsters) get better at attacking (represented by a Base Attack Bonus). However, by leveling, no one gets a bonus to their Armor Class. To keep things fair, there are more (and usually cheaper) ways to increase your Armor Class through magic than your Attack Bonus. If the enhancement bonus to Armor Class was more expensive, then everyone would have a lower Armor Class with the same amount of money, which doesn't suit well with the ideas of game balance. At least that's how I see it. I have no problem with the pricing system as it is now.
Edymnion 04-24-04, 01:29 PM	Originally posted by Shoes Well, intresting and all, but back to my original question. Why again is it that armor cost only half the amount of a magical weapon? To be more precise, why in the DMG for magical item creation that WotC placed magical armor price less then magical weapon prices? Same goes for masterwork equipment, +150gp armor vs +300gp weapon? Well, the first thing you're going to need to do is dump the idea of a gold price representing the actual value of the weapon/armor/item, or the trouble that goes into making them. I know its a hard thing to swallow, but the price of an item has nothing to do with how much it is worth. Table 5-1 in the DMG is the character wealth per level table (same table number in both 3.0 and 3.5). This is how the system judges the power level of a character, not by what they can do, but by how much stuff they've got. Things that make the character more powerful cost more of that character wealth than do things that make them not as powerful. Weapons make the characters more powerful directly. They deal more damage, let you kill things faster, and thereby indirectly taking less damage. Bigger armor does not let you kill things more quickly or more easily, it mearly lets you take less damage yourself while you do the exact same amount of damage with the exact same hitrate as a lower level character. Being able to avoid blows DOES make it more likely you will survive a given encounter, so it does add to your character wealth at a pretty steep rate, but it does not make the character much more capable of killing something really nasty than someone with lesser armor and the same weapon. Since armor bonuses don't make the character more powerful at the same rate that weapon bonuses do, they cost less of your precious character wealth to have. Think of it along the lines that more powerful weapons let you kill things faster, so the monsters have fewer rounds to hit on you, so a better weapon actually doubles as a type of virtual damage protection. Armor just lets you avoid some blows but doesn't help kill the monster. So weapons are pulling double duty compared to armor, so they cost twice as much character wealth.
Vaalingrade Ashland 04-24-04, 11:35 PM	Originally posted by Elrana I am not being sarcastic or patronising, Well it was patronizing, especially the bit about the RoP and natural armor. And I would appreciate its deletion. If you wish to continue to insult me, do it over PM.
Sancus 04-24-04, 11:49 PM	Look closely you won't find them because they are slottless. Altho we do find armor there don't we? They're not "slotless". That table has absolutely nothing to do with weapons. It has to do with ITEMS WORN ON THE BODY. Obviously held items won't be on it, because they're not worn on the body. Items that must be held in hand to use are not subject to the double cost for no space limitation. If this were the case, all staves, wands, and rods would cost double, but they don't. Obviously.
Cade Underbough 04-25-04, 02:06 AM	My interpretation is aided by playing Pokemon (pleasedon'tkillme). You see, having magically aided armour (say, armour against fire) gives you a set protection. If armour were like swords, though, you could have different armours against fire, water, etc., and your DM would hate you, because elemental stuff would be wasted. But wait! You can do that with weapons. So let's make them cost more! Additionally, let's do some quick mathematics (FUN!). Two characters, fighters (because I'm lazy). BAB +4, Str. +4, they attack with swords at +8. They both have AC 18 from armour. But wait! One has AC 19 from armour. And backtrack, then wait again! One attacks with +9. They both hit half the time. But one deals one more damage, so he wins. Finally, when going through a dungeon, you must kill things. You're allowed to cut corners with staying intact yourself. That's what clerics are for, after all. If you kill the creature, it isn't hitting you at all. -B.