Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mit Ratten Lebt 12-12-03, 03:02 PM	Need some help here to make sure I'm right about this (it seems unbalanced) Using the new 3.5 rules, lets say I have a pre-epic Armor with an effective level of +10 (Example: +5 Plate of Heavy Fortification) Since some enhancements for armor are now just a straight-up GP cost, could I take above-mentioned armor and also add all of the resistances, Slick, Shadow, Silent Moves, Etherealness and Undead controlling?? If not, why? (Where does it mention restrictions on these in the rules) Thanks
The_Ditto 12-12-03, 03:12 PM	Originally posted by Mit Ratten Lebt Need some help here to make sure I'm right about this (it seems unbalanced) Using the new 3.5 rules, lets say I have a pre-epic Armor with an effective level of +10 (Example: +5 Plate of Heavy Fortification) Since some enhancements for armor are now just a straight-up GP cost, could I take above-mentioned armor and also add all of the resistances, Slick, Shadow, Silent Moves, Etherealness and Undead controlling?? If not, why? (Where does it mention restrictions on these in the rules) Thanks Yep ... It would cost you: +5 Plate of Heavy Fortification: 100,000 gp +5 Plate of Heavy Fortification, Slick, Shadow, Silent Moves, Etherealness and Undead Control. 100,000gp + 3,750gp + 3,750gp + 3,750gp + 49,000gp + 49,000gp = 209,250 gp Or it would cost: 109,250 to add those enchantments to the +5 Plate of Heavy Fortification. (1/2 of course, if you're doing the crafting . :angel: )
Scandal 12-12-03, 04:53 PM	Isn't their a Money limit before it becomes an epic item IE. if it is more then 200k then it is an epic item?? -Scan
OldKyShark 12-12-03, 05:40 PM	No.
Edymnion 12-13-03, 12:32 AM	Originally posted by Scandal Isn't their a Money limit before it becomes an epic item IE. if it is more then 200k then it is an epic item?? -Scan Yes. Any single item costing 200,000 gold or more is an Epic Item, and cannot be made without Epic Crafting feats. 3.5 lets you cheat to get around the +10 limit, but it can't get around the 200,000gp limit.
sparkster4242 12-13-03, 01:03 AM	I was under the impression that the 200k limit didnt apply to weapons/armor, since they have a different mechanic (+ ratings). And of course, there is at least one precedent for breaking the 200k gp 'guideline': The 3.5 Staff of Power is listed at 211000gp market value. At least in the SRD its a staff; i seem to recall there was a staff listed in the minor artifacts section of the DMG ... oh well.
Redeemer of Ogar 12-13-03, 10:36 AM	There are two Artifact Staves (Staff of the Magi and Shadowstaff). Staff of Power is, indeed, a 211,000gp Major Magic item. It is the only specific listed item that breaks 200,000gp, though the base price of a +10 Weapon Enhancement is also 200,000gp, making the total cost of one always break that limit by at least 302gp (masterwork dagger cost). ...actually, disregard that last. Per the Epic Handbook, you ignore material costs for armor or weapons, material component or experience-point-based costs, and additional value for intelligent items (not sure why that last one is needed... A high-power intelligent item OUGHT to be epic). However, Epic also includes the GM-worthy phrase "In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item," and the Staff of Power stands as testament to the "exception to prove the rule." I'd say that the more sub-abilities an item has, the less likely it is to be epic just by breaching the 200,000gp barrier (unless it does so in a truly spectacular fasion). My opinion, YMMV. +--Redeemer of Ogar--
Edymnion 12-13-03, 12:53 PM	The Staff of Power and the Shadowstaff are both Artifacts, the players should not be able to construct one anyway. Nobody ever said you couldn't OWN an epic item at pre-epic levels, just that you can't make one. But hey, if you're allowing players to just take a couple months off and craft major artifacts just because they want to, well, I don't think you're going to be bothered with limitations on whats epic and what isn't.
sparkster4242 12-14-03, 07:59 AM	Mit: Heres the rwlevant quote, ELH p. 123 In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item. . . Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items. [emphasis mine] Hmm, Redeemer has a point. Since materials-cost doesnt count towards the 200kgp limit, those costs are not an issue with regards to the non/epic boundary. Those materials with an enhancement-equivalancy (+X number) will still trip you up, tho. Endymnion, I dont see Staff of Power in the Artifacts section, it seems to be just a staff, even if it is a powerful one. Staff of the Magi looks like an artifact... Ah, here it is. Staff of Power has a market price listed, therefore it is not an artifact. You must be thinking of the Staff of the Magi. I tend to be leery of the 'artifact' designation in material not specifically written within the framework of the ELH. In core rules, an artifact is basically 'anything more powerful than a 20th-level caster can make', while in epic play its more accurately described as 'an item which uses or duplicates Epic spells'. Mere epic magic-items fall in-between those two categories. By the way, i find it interesting to note that the 3.5 Staff of Power can cast a hemispherical Wall of Force, but the 3.5 spell cannot. :P
sparkster4242 12-14-03, 08:05 AM	dp
kreynolds 12-14-03, 10:20 AM	Originally posted by Scandal Isn't their a Money limit before it becomes an epic item IE. if it is more then 200k then it is an epic item?? According to the ELH, yes. According to the core rules, no. By the way, I find it interesting that the 200K gp limit is in place to determine epic items, because anything more than that begins to represent a third of a non-epic character's wealth, and it's generally looked down upon to have a single magic item or object represent that much of your wealth.