Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gorlok 03-05-05, 03:17 PM	if i am armored with an armor of moderate fortification and i get struck by a a sword of wounding do i have a 75% chance of cancelling the loss in con? in the description it says that creatures immune to criticals are imuune to the wounding effect. thanks
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-05-05, 06:08 PM	Yes. Fortification in itself does not protect against ability score damage, but in this case it does.
Vatras 03-05-05, 07:53 PM	I dont allow fortification to work against wounding. The description means to me it does not work against creatures without blood. Therefore I believe only an immunity from creature type should work here (like the plants and constructs mentioned).
Ginyu549 03-06-05, 02:07 PM	No, unfortunately fortification does not work against that. It does not make you immune to critical hits (especially moderate fort), only 75% likely to disregard them. You are still vulnerable to other effects, including a vorpal swords decapitation ability. Still, it depends on how your dm calls it, but by the RAW you still take the con dam with no chance to avoid it.
Bopple 03-07-05, 03:55 AM	Fortification doesn't make you immune to critical hits. It blocks critical hits by protecting vital areas.
tarkin 03-07-05, 03:21 PM	Fortification ... This suit of armor or shield produces a magical force that protects vital areas of the wearer more effectively. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the wearer, there is a chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally Wounding ....Creatures immune to critical hits (such as plants and constructs) are immune to the Constitution damage dealt by this weapon. Three points: 1) Balance 2) Literal 3) Role Play 1) Balance: I personally think both Wounding and Vorpal are VERY powerfull and needs to be taken down a notch, so I rule that Fortification stops them. 2) Literal interpretation would have to say no - it says creatures immune. 3) Role Playing - I see it as being more in line with role-playing to have the armor that "protects vital areas" prevent this kind of stuff. For me, the answer is clear, Fortification should definitely stop both Wounding and Vorpal.
Bopple 03-08-05, 08:00 AM	Well, then fortification would be too good. Even as now, it is a must-have special ability.
wonderland666 03-08-05, 09:53 AM	For me its Clear: if you have 75% Immunity, you have to roll a Die when hitting by a wounding weapon. If you roll the 75% or less --> You are immun from that hit. If you roll 75+ --> you are not immun and you lose the attribute. You must do this for every hit of course... and Fortification is not a must have abiltiy, its very expensiv to have 75% or better fortiification. Okay i would like to have a +5 Adamantit Heavy armor of Heavy fortification with Protection from all Elements and with the mirror Image Ability from Shining South. But The price for that armor wourld be too high.
Mecha Zero 03-08-05, 10:42 AM	Have a +5 Adamantit Heavy armor of Heavy fortification and a buckler with Protection from all Elements and with the mirror Image Ability. same thing, excepet two body slots are used
tarkin 03-08-05, 11:27 AM	Well, then fortification would be too good. Even as now, it is a must-have special ability. Fortification is a defense that applies only to a specialist attack, still allowing regular damage to go through. In addition, to get 100% it is a +5 ability, not cheap. And, there are lots of creatures that already get this ability naturally (Constructs, plants, etc. etc.) Those two facts pretty much means it can NOT be too good. If certain large categories of monsters get the ability, then pretty much by definition, a person should be able to buy that ability. Just as people can make themselves incorporeal, people should be able to get immunity to everything related to criticals/sneak attacks. The quesiton then becomes the price. Even a Rogue whose many combat is Sneak Attack can still affect some with full Fortification, using regular damage and if they are smart, they still will still be able to use things like poison etc. Fortification, when used under my interpreation is a strong magical enchantment, but not overly so. Compare it with the shield enchantment Reflecting, also a +5 enchantment. (Spell Turning effet 1/day, any level). I would rather get Reflecting, personally. And compare it with a combination of Ghost Touch Armor +3 and Invunerability +3 (+6 total). If Fortification was really so good, people would rather have it thant that combo above. Frankly, there is NO way I would take Heavy Fortification over Ghost Touch Armor with Invunerability. - armor that works against incorporeal creatures AND grants me DR 5/magic is worth WAY more.
Drachasor 03-08-05, 11:58 AM	Afterall, there are plenty of ways to get the equivalent of Fortification. Polymorph lets you turn into plants which have this and more. There are a number of humanoid plants to choose from, and with them you can continue to use all of your current gear (and gain a natural armor bonus on top of this). A Wonderous magical item that gave you a specific form continuously would cost (form's number of hit dice) * 4 * 2000 * 2. I believe there are plant humanoids that have only 7 hit dice or fewer, so with that in mind the item would cost at most 112,000. Pretty nice considering the benefits stack pretty well with whatever you have on, and can provide the equivalent of a amulet of natural armor. What's also nice is that you gain the special attacks, but not the special qualities, that means that you might get another attack form, but you won't get any special weaknesses of the form you assume (those are qualities). Overall a pretty good deal. Of course, it would only make sense to include a discount here, unless you are going to let the user polymorph into anything of the same hit dice or lower. That probably calls for a 10 to 30% discount at least (imho as a DM). Otherwise the player might as well research a 3rd level spell that allowed you to take the form of a specific plant creature (which is easily a 3rd level spell), which would make the item cost 3 * 5 * 2000 * 2 = 60,000 (assuming an appropriate creature of 5 hit dice or less exists, and I think it does). Hmm, that's a bit more than a 30% discount, but you have to research your own spell. 30% off seems about right then, to me (admittedly a stingy DM might allow nothing, but then the item would have a lot of misc uses, such as flying forms, hydras, and the like). So it isn't like there aren't other ways to get the equivalent of fortification or better. In some cases they'd cost more, but if you want powerful armor then they'll pretty much always cost less than fortification. -Drachasor
Sentinel of Bharrai 03-08-05, 12:06 PM	[QUOTE=wonderland666]For me its Clear: if you have 75% Immunity, you have to roll a Die when hitting by a wounding weapon. If you roll the 75% or less --> You are immun from that hit. If you roll 75+ --> you are not immun and you lose the attribute. You must do this for every hit of course. QUOTE] I agree.
Golchocobo 03-08-05, 12:24 PM	A Sword of Wounding is not affected by Fortification. Because, a sword of wounding doesn't need to hit a vital spot to deal constitution damage. It merely needs to hit. Fortification doesn't make you "Immune" to critical hits. It gives you a chance of ignoring the extra damage from a critical hit or sneak attack. Thus, a character wearing Heavily Fortified Armor, is not immune to critical hits. They have a 100% chance of ignoring extra damage. Not the same thing. The only reason Creature Immune to critical hits are Immune to the Wounding effect is, they don't have blood. So unless you can think of why fortification would keep your blood in. Fortification doesn't affect Wounding. Because if that were true, you would be immune to damage.
Bopple 03-08-05, 07:40 PM	Compare it with the shield enchantment Reflecting, also a +5 enchantment. (Spell Turning effet 1/day, any level). I would rather get Reflecting, personally. Not fair comparison. It's shield-only. And it's another very good ability. And compare it with a combination of Ghost Touch Armor +3 and Invunerability +3 (+6 total). Ghost Touch is good. But Invulnerability? I don't think 5/magic DR is worth the money, by the time you can afford.