Armor of Lessor Vigor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armor of Lessor Vigor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
supermouse
09-04-07, 02:37 PM A player of mine wants to have this created it would be armor that has Lessor Vigor on it that works all the time. So he would basicly be healing back 1 hit point a round all the time up 15 hit points. Is this to powerful? How much would it cost to buy something like this?
GSonic7
09-04-07, 02:41 PM It's worth what he's willing to pay for it.
Lafing Cat
09-04-07, 02:51 PM what do you mean by "up to 15 HP" Tt won't heal him to over 15 HP, regardless of his max?
supermouse
09-04-07, 02:55 PM Okay basicly what he wants is the armor to continuously have Lessor Vigor in place. So say gets hit for 15 hit points, the round after the armor would heal 1 hit piont back. It would keep healing 1 hit point each round up to 15 hit points then it would stop, it would never go over his max hitpoints. Just make him kind of hard to kill.
Lafing Cat
09-04-07, 02:56 PM Say he has 30 HP, and gets hit for 20 damage. What happens?
supermouse
09-04-07, 02:59 PM The round after he took the 20 points of damage he would start to heal 1 hit point back per round up to 15 rounds. I think it would be the equilient of having Fast Healing 1
NobodyRemembersThis
09-04-07, 02:59 PM He is basically trying get a massively better version of the ring of regeneration. I'd say no. An armor that allows him to cast lesser vigor twice per day wouldn't be too bad.
Lafing Cat
09-04-07, 04:12 PM Fast Healing 1, if thats really what it does, is worth about 100k. A version of it that only healed up to 15 damage per hit would maybe knock 25% off the price or so, you're still looking at 75k.
tarkin
09-04-07, 04:29 PM Just tell him that if he wants a Ring of Regeneration he has to BUY one.

That is the reaction you should ALWAYS have to someone that says:

"I made this magic item that is much better than an existing one in the DMG, but I want to price it far cheaper than the thing in the DMG."
Sildatorak
09-04-07, 04:55 PM Eh, I'm of the opinion that the ring of regeneration is massively overpriced garbage. The 1 hp/hour means that it is on par with an item that can cast cure critical wounds once per day in terms of healing and that can protect against vorpal weapons (the only use of the "regenerate a severed body part" to be found in core). 90k is simply ridiculous for it.

Armor that allows a lesser vigor effect for up to 15 rounds per day has more in common with mithral full plate of speed than the ring of regeneration since he is looking for a spell use 1/day with the duration spread out through multiple uses.

The "of speed" ability basically prices out to be worth a +3 bonus, and I'd say that this healing ability would be worth about a +1 bonus.
Kyuketsukiouji
09-04-07, 08:21 PM It's a powerful ability, but not a game-breaking one. What it does is basically cast vigor every encounter, and fast heal the temp hp at the rate of 1 per round when the fight has started. It's good, but not broken.

But it's definitely a powerful ability.

As I see it (and correct me if I'm wrong), if someone get hit for 20 hp, what happens is this (I'll assume the character has 30 base hp.

Round 1: 30 hp, + 15 temp hp. Takes 20 damage.
The 15 temp hp die, and the character takes the other 5 points.
Round 2: 25 hp, + 1 temp hp. Takes 20 damage.
The 1 temp hp dies, and the charavter takes 19 damage.
Round 3: 6 hp, +1 temp hp. Takes 0 damage.
Round 4: 6 hp. +2 temp hp.

And so on, and so forth. Obviously, as soon as you take more than 15 points of damage in one round, the ability becomes, for all practical purposes, just like having Vigor Xtimes per day.

I'd price it around +3, +4 armor bonus, just to make sure someone couldn't freely stack it up on armor too much.
StevenO
09-04-07, 08:46 PM A player of mine wants to have this created it would be armor that has Lessor Vigor on it that works all the time. So he would basicly be healing back 1 hit point a round all the time up 15 hit points. Is this to powerful? How much would it cost to buy something like this?
So is this fast healing 1 to a maximum of 15 hp all day (effectively a Cure Moderate Wounds spell) or 15 hp from any single attack?

At 15 hp per day I don't know how to price it but I'd consider the cost of a potion of cure moderate wounds x10 about right. Even if the item will only heal 15 damage from each source it is overpowered. A Ring of Regeneration is 90,000 gp and heals (24 x level) in hp per day which is a wopping 480 for a 20th level character. This item will heal the same number of hp in only 48 minutes and will do that for a character of ANY level provided it actually survives the damage. Sure the Ring of Regeneration may be overpriced because it can bring back the dead but with fast healing you may never need to worry about it.
Sildatorak
09-04-07, 09:52 PM A Ring of Regeneration is 90,000 gp and heals (24 x level) in hp per day which is a wopping 480 for a 20th level character.Went back and re-read the ring. You are right, it is level/hour, not just 1/hour. It might not be quite as as rubbishy as I thought.

Sure the Ring of Regeneration may be overpriced because it can bring back the dead but with fast healing you may never need to worry about it.I know it could do this in previous editions, but I'm not seeing anything in the srd that suggests this is still the case.
StruckingFuggle
09-04-07, 10:07 PM Fast Healing 1, if thats really what it does, is worth about 100k. A version of it that only healed up to 15 damage per hit would maybe knock 25% off the price or so, you're still looking at 75k.

You're kidding, right? 100k for Fast Healing 1?

I'm not sure how much that's overpriced, but haha, wow would that be a waste of GP. o.O Think about what else you could get for 100k!

(personally, I think that Fast Healing for low amounts is particularly overvalued by most people. It's not like it's Regeneration 1, or even Regeneration 0. It's Fast Healing ONE. There's Reserve Feats and a first level Class Abilities that give you unlimited healing up to to half hp (and a first-level class ability that when combied with a feat gives you effectively fast healing 1 so long as you can act)... and ultimately, it's 1hp/round. Sure, it's killer at level 1, but by the time you gain enough levels to really afford it...

Hell, for 100k, I could have a gnome Necropolitan Dragon Shaman hireling kept in a bad of holding for most of my adventuring career and then some.

Just tell him that if he wants a Ring of Regeneration he has to BUY one.

Except what he wants isn't a Ring of Regeneration.
Lafing Cat
09-04-07, 11:23 PM You're kidding, right? 100k for Fast Healing 1?

I'm not sure how much that's overpriced, but haha, wow would that be a waste of GP. o.O Think about what else you could get for 100k!

(personally, I think that Fast Healing for low amounts is particularly overvalued by most people. It's not like it's Regeneration 1, or even Regeneration 0. It's Fast Healing ONE. There's Reserve Feats and a first level Class Abilities that give you unlimited healing up to to half hp (and a first-level class ability that when combied with a feat gives you effectively fast healing 1 so long as you can act)... and ultimately, it's 1hp/round. Sure, it's killer at level 1, but by the time you gain enough levels to really afford it...

Hell, for 100k, I could have a gnome Necropolitan Dragon Shaman hireling kept in a bad of holding for most of my adventuring career and then some.

Except what he wants isn't a Ring of Regeneration.

Actually, I'm not joking at all.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rings.htm#rapidHealing

There's also a graft in some book or another thats Fast Healing 2 for 190k.

Which pretty much pegs the price of fast healing at 100k per point.
Sildatorak
09-05-07, 12:03 AM Keep in mind that is 100k per point for completely unlimited fast healing (600 hp/hour of healing may be worthwhile when you will actually have a significant portion of those hp). If this is a total of 15 points per day, it should be priced as such.
Jaxgaret
09-05-07, 12:08 AM Actually, I'm not joking at all.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rings.htm#rapidHealing

There's also a graft in some book or another thats Fast Healing 2 for 190k.

Which pretty much pegs the price of fast healing at 100k per point.

What book is the graft in?

You may be missing the fact the grafts are unslotted? (Not sure if they are or not).

If they are unslotted, that Fast Healing 2 graft is actually only 95,000 gp x2 for being unslotted.

Which would make a Fast Healing 1 armor enhancement approximately +40,000gp. 20,000 x2 for being unslotted itself.
Nephlite
09-05-07, 12:11 AM Sure the Ring of Regeneration may be overpriced because it can bring back the dead but with fast healing you may never need to worry about it.

Dude, the Ring doesn't work on the dead.
When dead you are a Corpse (an object) and it only effects creatures. So it doesn't protect against vorpal. It only helps if you survive your head being cut off to reattach it: most people can't. Can anyone that is a PC gain that ability; I'd say never heard of a way.

So no benefit.
Jaxgaret
09-05-07, 12:14 AM It only helps if you survive your head being cut off to reattach it: most people can't. Can anyone that is a PC gain that ability; I'd say never heard of a way.

Play a Lich.
StruckingFuggle
09-05-07, 12:51 AM Actually, I'm not joking at all.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rings.htm#rapidHealing

There's also a graft in some book or another thats Fast Healing 2 for 190k.

Which pretty much pegs the price of fast healing at 100k per point.

Well okay then - they must be kidding, especially with the epic ring. 300,000 gp? For FAST HEALING 3? And people actually buy it? ... Maybe Regeneration 3. Maybe.

... now, 40,000 for FH1 from my armor, maybe; but still it'd be low on the list of things I'd spend 40k on. o.o
Mystyc
09-05-07, 01:38 AM Dude, the Ring doesn't work on the dead.
When dead you are a Corpse (an object) and it only effects creatures. So it doesn't protect against vorpal. It only helps if you survive your head being cut off to reattach it: most people can't. Can anyone that is a PC gain that ability; I'd say never heard of a way.

So no benefit.

Warshapers can rearrange themselves inside to be immune to crits. You could make an argument that they can rearrange their brains out of their heads, thus surviving decapitation.
NobodyRemembersThis
09-05-07, 07:37 AM What book is the graft in?

You may be missing the fact the grafts are unslotted? (Not sure if they are or not).

If they are unslotted, that Fast Healing 2 graft is actually only 95,000 gp x2 for being unslotted.

Which would make a Fast Healing 1 armor enhancement approximately +40,000gp. 20,000 x2 for being unslotted itself.The epic ring is 300k. That would make fast healing 2 200k, and fast healing 1 100k.

The graft has drawbacks; the ring does not. So you have to go with the suggested pricing of the item that doesn't have drawbacks figured into the item's cost.
Nephlite
09-05-07, 09:24 AM A player of mine wants to have this created it would be armor that has Lessor Vigor on it that works all the time. So he would basicly be healing back 1 hit point a round all the time up 15 hit points. Is this to powerful? How much would it cost to buy something like this?

Closest forumula is: Lesser, Vigor cures 11 at caster 1.
5 x1x 2000=10 K x 1 charge/5 day=2 K. But Slot affinity wrong so 3K.

Or:
Cure Minor: 1 x 1/2 x 2000=1000 x Charges 15/5 day=3000. Slot affinity wrong so 4, 500.

So I'd go with 4, 500 as a benchmark. Not too expensive, but not too cheap.
Maybe add 500 more since ring doesn;' require activation.

So final Price 5 K for an armor ability. or +1 ability if we using ability amount.

So 5 K sounds decent as a gold value. Not too cheap, but not too costlty. I mewan, it is only 15 hps /day.

Belt of Healing cures 1/day 18 hp average for 750 gp. Though, must use standard action.
Jaxgaret
09-05-07, 09:50 AM The epic ring is 300k. That would make fast healing 2 200k, and fast healing 1 100k.

The graft has drawbacks; the ring does not. So you have to go with the suggested pricing of the item that doesn't have drawbacks figured into the item's cost.

Except that pricing does not work that way; an item of +3 is usually significantly more than three times as expensive as an item of +1. It follows an exponential-type curve rather than linear.

Just look at the lists of magical items, and you'll see what I mean.

A +1 Sword is 2,000; a +3 sword is not 6,000. Gauntlets of Ogre Strength +2 are 4,000 gp; a Belt of Giant Strength +6 is not 12,000 gp.
StruckingFuggle
09-05-07, 12:19 PM On the other hand, the difference of effective value is greater going from a +1 weapon to a +3 weapon; while FH3 doesn't seem that much better than FH1.
Jaxgaret
09-05-07, 06:12 PM On the other hand, the difference of effective value is greater going from a +1 weapon to a +3 weapon; while FH3 doesn't seem that much better than FH1.

That might be possible, or it might not; Fast Healing is made much less comparatively efficient for outside of combat healing by the presence of plentiful, cheap healing in the form of Wands of CLW or Lesser Vigor, and Eternal Wands of the same or other per-day items.

Thus one might say that FH3 holds a similar edge over FH1 as a +3 Sword over a +1 Sword - its in-combat application. Perhaps slightly less so, but not by much.

My quoted price of +40,000 actually includes this adjustment; going by straight exponential pricing guidelines, the price would be closer to +30,000.
StruckingFuggle
09-05-07, 06:19 PM That might be possible, or it might not; Fast Healing itself is made much less useful comparatively by plentiful, cheap, out of combat healing in the form of Wands of CLW or Lesser Vigor.

Thus one might say that FH3 holds the same edge over FH1 as a +3 Sword over a +1 Sword.

Wouldn't cheap out of combat healing cheapen minor to modest increases in the value of the FH even more?

Since the in-combat difference between FH1 and FH3, by the time you could get it, will only make an appreciable difference in rare & fringe cases ... In combat, FH is good for auto-stabilizing, it's major benefit is healing up outside of battles. Cheap out-of-combat healing thus further cheapens FH in general, be it 1 or 3.

Meanwhile, statistically a +3 weapon is an appreciable combat advantage over a +1 weapon.
Jaxgaret
09-05-07, 06:23 PM Wouldn't cheap out of combat healing cheapen minor to modest increases in the value of the FH even more?

Since the in-combat difference between FH1 and FH3, by the time you could get it, will only make an appreciable difference in rare & fringe cases ... In combat, FH is good for auto-stabilizing, it's major benefit is healing up outside of battles. Cheap out-of-combat healing thus further cheapens FH in general, be it 1 or 3.

Meanwhile, statistically a +3 weapon is an appreciable combat advantage over a +1 weapon.

I edited my previous post to add some more content. Take a look.

Also, you are correct in that cheap out-of-combat healing reduces the value of an item of FH; presumably the price of the Ring of FH3 includes this (although it would not be at all surprising for WotC to have screwed up yet again on the pricing of this item).

The point of my previous post was that the benefit of an item of Fast Healing is mostly derived from its in-combat assistance, because out-of-combat healing is very cheap.
StruckingFuggle
09-05-07, 06:51 PM The point of my previous post was that the benefit of an item of Fast Healing is mostly derived from its in-combat assistance, because out-of-combat healing is very cheap.

And I still maintain that unless you get something like FH10, its in-combat utility is so limited that it's overpriced and overvalued from an in-combat point of view.
Jaxgaret
09-05-07, 07:41 PM And I still maintain that unless you get something like FH10, its in-combat utility is so limited that it's overpriced and overvalued from an in-combat point of view.

Perhaps - but then you are arguing that the Ring of FH3 itself costs too much; that's an entirely different animal than arguing the merit of basing the cost of an item of FH1 off of an item of FH3.

Note that I took into account the fact that Fast Healing provides some out-of-combat utility, and bumped the price of the FH1 item up by a good 33% to compensate.
groveborn
09-06-07, 04:35 PM Consider this: A ring of regeneration at 90k, healing a level's worth of hitpoints in an hour, at say, level 10. Does this effect only work once per hour, every hour, thus healing 10 hitpoints at one point, or would you be healing every 6 minutes? If so, it's just a scaled fast healing, as it does not provide true regeneration.

Fast healing 1 is not game breaking, but it should be expensive, and should NOT be on armor. It's a ring, and amulet, or an ioun stone, though technically you CAN put it on armor, you just shouldn't.

Just because someone can cast a spell, doesn't mean you should put any ol' spell into an unlimited magic item. The ring of true strike is a classic example of this.

If he really wants the lesser vigor, rather than fast healing 1, allow him to have a uses per day. Preferably in the 1-2 area to prevent game breaking issues. Then, double or even triple the normal cost. This is just for game balance.
Neutronium_Dragon
09-06-07, 06:11 PM Rather than worrying about Lesser Vigor, I would simply suggest that the armor have a property: Sprint Healing 1/15.

Sprint Healing is like Fast Healing, but caps out at the second number per day, so this would five him Fast Healing 1 for a maximum of 15 points/day.

Pricing it as a property? +4500 GP (3000, x1.5 since armor properties are considered secondary when expressed as a GP value). It's in about the right place, since it's not an enormously powerful ability.
groveborn
09-07-07, 04:53 AM Rather than worrying about Lesser Vigor, I would simply suggest that the armor have a property: Sprint Healing 1/15.

Sprint Healing is like Fast Healing, but caps out at the second number per day, so this would five him Fast Healing 1 for a maximum of 15 points/day.

Pricing it as a property? +4500 GP (3000, x1.5 since armor properties are considered secondary when expressed as a GP value). It's in about the right place, since it's not an enormously powerful ability.

I don't know where you get your pricing ideas, but the rest is sound. Armor has to have an enhancement already, so it is only logical that the price is as it should be listed. It would change price if it's placed using the Craft Wonderous feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
supermouse 09-04-07, 02:37 PM	A player of mine wants to have this created it would be armor that has Lessor Vigor on it that works all the time. So he would basicly be healing back 1 hit point a round all the time up 15 hit points. Is this to powerful? How much would it cost to buy something like this?
GSonic7 09-04-07, 02:41 PM	It's worth what he's willing to pay for it.
Lafing Cat 09-04-07, 02:51 PM	what do you mean by "up to 15 HP" Tt won't heal him to over 15 HP, regardless of his max?
supermouse 09-04-07, 02:55 PM	Okay basicly what he wants is the armor to continuously have Lessor Vigor in place. So say gets hit for 15 hit points, the round after the armor would heal 1 hit piont back. It would keep healing 1 hit point each round up to 15 hit points then it would stop, it would never go over his max hitpoints. Just make him kind of hard to kill.
Lafing Cat 09-04-07, 02:56 PM	Say he has 30 HP, and gets hit for 20 damage. What happens?
supermouse 09-04-07, 02:59 PM	The round after he took the 20 points of damage he would start to heal 1 hit point back per round up to 15 rounds. I think it would be the equilient of having Fast Healing 1
NobodyRemembersThis 09-04-07, 02:59 PM	He is basically trying get a massively better version of the ring of regeneration. I'd say no. An armor that allows him to cast lesser vigor twice per day wouldn't be too bad.
Lafing Cat 09-04-07, 04:12 PM	Fast Healing 1, if thats really what it does, is worth about 100k. A version of it that only healed up to 15 damage per hit would maybe knock 25% off the price or so, you're still looking at 75k.
tarkin 09-04-07, 04:29 PM	Just tell him that if he wants a Ring of Regeneration he has to BUY one. That is the reaction you should ALWAYS have to someone that says: "I made this magic item that is much better than an existing one in the DMG, but I want to price it far cheaper than the thing in the DMG."
Sildatorak 09-04-07, 04:55 PM	Eh, I'm of the opinion that the ring of regeneration is massively overpriced garbage. The 1 hp/hour means that it is on par with an item that can cast cure critical wounds once per day in terms of healing and that can protect against vorpal weapons (the only use of the "regenerate a severed body part" to be found in core). 90k is simply ridiculous for it. Armor that allows a lesser vigor effect for up to 15 rounds per day has more in common with mithral full plate of speed than the ring of regeneration since he is looking for a spell use 1/day with the duration spread out through multiple uses. The "of speed" ability basically prices out to be worth a +3 bonus, and I'd say that this healing ability would be worth about a +1 bonus.
Kyuketsukiouji 09-04-07, 08:21 PM	It's a powerful ability, but not a game-breaking one. What it does is basically cast vigor every encounter, and fast heal the temp hp at the rate of 1 per round when the fight has started. It's good, but not broken. But it's definitely a powerful ability. As I see it (and correct me if I'm wrong), if someone get hit for 20 hp, what happens is this (I'll assume the character has 30 base hp. Round 1: 30 hp, + 15 temp hp. Takes 20 damage. The 15 temp hp die, and the character takes the other 5 points. Round 2: 25 hp, + 1 temp hp. Takes 20 damage. The 1 temp hp dies, and the charavter takes 19 damage. Round 3: 6 hp, +1 temp hp. Takes 0 damage. Round 4: 6 hp. +2 temp hp. And so on, and so forth. Obviously, as soon as you take more than 15 points of damage in one round, the ability becomes, for all practical purposes, just like having Vigor Xtimes per day. I'd price it around +3, +4 armor bonus, just to make sure someone couldn't freely stack it up on armor too much.
StevenO 09-04-07, 08:46 PM	A player of mine wants to have this created it would be armor that has Lessor Vigor on it that works all the time. So he would basicly be healing back 1 hit point a round all the time up 15 hit points. Is this to powerful? How much would it cost to buy something like this? So is this fast healing 1 to a maximum of 15 hp all day (effectively a Cure Moderate Wounds spell) or 15 hp from any single attack? At 15 hp per day I don't know how to price it but I'd consider the cost of a potion of cure moderate wounds x10 about right. Even if the item will only heal 15 damage from each source it is overpowered. A Ring of Regeneration is 90,000 gp and heals (24 x level) in hp per day which is a wopping 480 for a 20th level character. This item will heal the same number of hp in only 48 minutes and will do that for a character of ANY level provided it actually survives the damage. Sure the Ring of Regeneration may be overpriced because it can bring back the dead but with fast healing you may never need to worry about it.
Sildatorak 09-04-07, 09:52 PM	A Ring of Regeneration is 90,000 gp and heals (24 x level) in hp per day which is a wopping 480 for a 20th level character.Went back and re-read the ring. You are right, it is level/hour, not just 1/hour. It might not be quite as as rubbishy as I thought. Sure the Ring of Regeneration may be overpriced because it can bring back the dead but with fast healing you may never need to worry about it.I know it could do this in previous editions, but I'm not seeing anything in the srd that suggests this is still the case.
StruckingFuggle 09-04-07, 10:07 PM	Fast Healing 1, if thats really what it does, is worth about 100k. A version of it that only healed up to 15 damage per hit would maybe knock 25% off the price or so, you're still looking at 75k. You're kidding, right? 100k for Fast Healing 1? I'm not sure how much that's overpriced, but haha, wow would that be a waste of GP. o.O Think about what else you could get for 100k! (personally, I think that Fast Healing for low amounts is particularly overvalued by most people. It's not like it's Regeneration 1, or even Regeneration 0. It's Fast Healing ONE. There's Reserve Feats and a first level Class Abilities that give you unlimited healing up to to half hp (and a first-level class ability that when combied with a feat gives you effectively fast healing 1 so long as you can act)... and ultimately, it's 1hp/round. Sure, it's killer at level 1, but by the time you gain enough levels to really afford it... Hell, for 100k, I could have a gnome Necropolitan Dragon Shaman hireling kept in a bad of holding for most of my adventuring career and then some. Just tell him that if he wants a Ring of Regeneration he has to BUY one. Except what he wants isn't a Ring of Regeneration.
Lafing Cat 09-04-07, 11:23 PM	You're kidding, right? 100k for Fast Healing 1? I'm not sure how much that's overpriced, but haha, wow would that be a waste of GP. o.O Think about what else you could get for 100k! (personally, I think that Fast Healing for low amounts is particularly overvalued by most people. It's not like it's Regeneration 1, or even Regeneration 0. It's Fast Healing ONE. There's Reserve Feats and a first level Class Abilities that give you unlimited healing up to to half hp (and a first-level class ability that when combied with a feat gives you effectively fast healing 1 so long as you can act)... and ultimately, it's 1hp/round. Sure, it's killer at level 1, but by the time you gain enough levels to really afford it... Hell, for 100k, I could have a gnome Necropolitan Dragon Shaman hireling kept in a bad of holding for most of my adventuring career and then some. Except what he wants isn't a Ring of Regeneration. Actually, I'm not joking at all. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rings.htm#rapidHealing There's also a graft in some book or another thats Fast Healing 2 for 190k. Which pretty much pegs the price of fast healing at 100k per point.
Sildatorak 09-05-07, 12:03 AM	Keep in mind that is 100k per point for completely unlimited fast healing (600 hp/hour of healing may be worthwhile when you will actually have a significant portion of those hp). If this is a total of 15 points per day, it should be priced as such.
Jaxgaret 09-05-07, 12:08 AM	Actually, I'm not joking at all. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rings.htm#rapidHealing There's also a graft in some book or another thats Fast Healing 2 for 190k. Which pretty much pegs the price of fast healing at 100k per point. What book is the graft in? You may be missing the fact the grafts are unslotted? (Not sure if they are or not). If they are unslotted, that Fast Healing 2 graft is actually only 95,000 gp x2 for being unslotted. Which would make a Fast Healing 1 armor enhancement approximately +40,000gp. 20,000 x2 for being unslotted itself.
Nephlite 09-05-07, 12:11 AM	Sure the Ring of Regeneration may be overpriced because it can bring back the dead but with fast healing you may never need to worry about it. Dude, the Ring doesn't work on the dead. When dead you are a Corpse (an object) and it only effects creatures. So it doesn't protect against vorpal. It only helps if you survive your head being cut off to reattach it: most people can't. Can anyone that is a PC gain that ability; I'd say never heard of a way. So no benefit.
Jaxgaret 09-05-07, 12:14 AM	It only helps if you survive your head being cut off to reattach it: most people can't. Can anyone that is a PC gain that ability; I'd say never heard of a way. Play a Lich.
StruckingFuggle 09-05-07, 12:51 AM	Actually, I'm not joking at all. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/magicItems/rings.htm#rapidHealing There's also a graft in some book or another thats Fast Healing 2 for 190k. Which pretty much pegs the price of fast healing at 100k per point. Well okay then - they must be kidding, especially with the epic ring. 300,000 gp? For FAST HEALING 3? And people actually buy it? ... Maybe Regeneration 3. Maybe. ... now, 40,000 for FH1 from my armor, maybe; but still it'd be low on the list of things I'd spend 40k on. o.o
Mystyc 09-05-07, 01:38 AM	Dude, the Ring doesn't work on the dead. When dead you are a Corpse (an object) and it only effects creatures. So it doesn't protect against vorpal. It only helps if you survive your head being cut off to reattach it: most people can't. Can anyone that is a PC gain that ability; I'd say never heard of a way. So no benefit. Warshapers can rearrange themselves inside to be immune to crits. You could make an argument that they can rearrange their brains out of their heads, thus surviving decapitation.
NobodyRemembersThis 09-05-07, 07:37 AM	What book is the graft in? You may be missing the fact the grafts are unslotted? (Not sure if they are or not). If they are unslotted, that Fast Healing 2 graft is actually only 95,000 gp x2 for being unslotted. Which would make a Fast Healing 1 armor enhancement approximately +40,000gp. 20,000 x2 for being unslotted itself.The epic ring is 300k. That would make fast healing 2 200k, and fast healing 1 100k. The graft has drawbacks; the ring does not. So you have to go with the suggested pricing of the item that doesn't have drawbacks figured into the item's cost.
Nephlite 09-05-07, 09:24 AM	A player of mine wants to have this created it would be armor that has Lessor Vigor on it that works all the time. So he would basicly be healing back 1 hit point a round all the time up 15 hit points. Is this to powerful? How much would it cost to buy something like this? Closest forumula is: Lesser, Vigor cures 11 at caster 1. 5 x1x 2000=10 K x 1 charge/5 day=2 K. But Slot affinity wrong so 3K. Or: Cure Minor: 1 x 1/2 x 2000=1000 x Charges 15/5 day=3000. Slot affinity wrong so 4, 500. So I'd go with 4, 500 as a benchmark. Not too expensive, but not too cheap. Maybe add 500 more since ring doesn;' require activation. So final Price 5 K for an armor ability. or +1 ability if we using ability amount. So 5 K sounds decent as a gold value. Not too cheap, but not too costlty. I mewan, it is only 15 hps /day. Belt of Healing cures 1/day 18 hp average for 750 gp. Though, must use standard action.
Jaxgaret 09-05-07, 09:50 AM	The epic ring is 300k. That would make fast healing 2 200k, and fast healing 1 100k. The graft has drawbacks; the ring does not. So you have to go with the suggested pricing of the item that doesn't have drawbacks figured into the item's cost. Except that pricing does not work that way; an item of +3 is usually significantly more than three times as expensive as an item of +1. It follows an exponential-type curve rather than linear. Just look at the lists of magical items, and you'll see what I mean. A +1 Sword is 2,000; a +3 sword is not 6,000. Gauntlets of Ogre Strength +2 are 4,000 gp; a Belt of Giant Strength +6 is not 12,000 gp.
StruckingFuggle 09-05-07, 12:19 PM	On the other hand, the difference of effective value is greater going from a +1 weapon to a +3 weapon; while FH3 doesn't seem that much better than FH1.
Jaxgaret 09-05-07, 06:12 PM	On the other hand, the difference of effective value is greater going from a +1 weapon to a +3 weapon; while FH3 doesn't seem that much better than FH1. That might be possible, or it might not; Fast Healing is made much less comparatively efficient for outside of combat healing by the presence of plentiful, cheap healing in the form of Wands of CLW or Lesser Vigor, and Eternal Wands of the same or other per-day items. Thus one might say that FH3 holds a similar edge over FH1 as a +3 Sword over a +1 Sword - its in-combat application. Perhaps slightly less so, but not by much. My quoted price of +40,000 actually includes this adjustment; going by straight exponential pricing guidelines, the price would be closer to +30,000.
StruckingFuggle 09-05-07, 06:19 PM	That might be possible, or it might not; Fast Healing itself is made much less useful comparatively by plentiful, cheap, out of combat healing in the form of Wands of CLW or Lesser Vigor. Thus one might say that FH3 holds the same edge over FH1 as a +3 Sword over a +1 Sword. Wouldn't cheap out of combat healing cheapen minor to modest increases in the value of the FH even more? Since the in-combat difference between FH1 and FH3, by the time you could get it, will only make an appreciable difference in rare & fringe cases ... In combat, FH is good for auto-stabilizing, it's major benefit is healing up outside of battles. Cheap out-of-combat healing thus further cheapens FH in general, be it 1 or 3. Meanwhile, statistically a +3 weapon is an appreciable combat advantage over a +1 weapon.
Jaxgaret 09-05-07, 06:23 PM	Wouldn't cheap out of combat healing cheapen minor to modest increases in the value of the FH even more? Since the in-combat difference between FH1 and FH3, by the time you could get it, will only make an appreciable difference in rare & fringe cases ... In combat, FH is good for auto-stabilizing, it's major benefit is healing up outside of battles. Cheap out-of-combat healing thus further cheapens FH in general, be it 1 or 3. Meanwhile, statistically a +3 weapon is an appreciable combat advantage over a +1 weapon. I edited my previous post to add some more content. Take a look. Also, you are correct in that cheap out-of-combat healing reduces the value of an item of FH; presumably the price of the Ring of FH3 includes this (although it would not be at all surprising for WotC to have screwed up yet again on the pricing of this item). The point of my previous post was that the benefit of an item of Fast Healing is mostly derived from its in-combat assistance, because out-of-combat healing is very cheap.
StruckingFuggle 09-05-07, 06:51 PM	The point of my previous post was that the benefit of an item of Fast Healing is mostly derived from its in-combat assistance, because out-of-combat healing is very cheap. And I still maintain that unless you get something like FH10, its in-combat utility is so limited that it's overpriced and overvalued from an in-combat point of view.
Jaxgaret 09-05-07, 07:41 PM	And I still maintain that unless you get something like FH10, its in-combat utility is so limited that it's overpriced and overvalued from an in-combat point of view. Perhaps - but then you are arguing that the Ring of FH3 itself costs too much; that's an entirely different animal than arguing the merit of basing the cost of an item of FH1 off of an item of FH3. Note that I took into account the fact that Fast Healing provides some out-of-combat utility, and bumped the price of the FH1 item up by a good 33% to compensate.
groveborn 09-06-07, 04:35 PM	Consider this: A ring of regeneration at 90k, healing a level's worth of hitpoints in an hour, at say, level 10. Does this effect only work once per hour, every hour, thus healing 10 hitpoints at one point, or would you be healing every 6 minutes? If so, it's just a scaled fast healing, as it does not provide true regeneration. Fast healing 1 is not game breaking, but it should be expensive, and should NOT be on armor. It's a ring, and amulet, or an ioun stone, though technically you CAN put it on armor, you just shouldn't. Just because someone can cast a spell, doesn't mean you should put any ol' spell into an unlimited magic item. The ring of true strike is a classic example of this. If he really wants the lesser vigor, rather than fast healing 1, allow him to have a uses per day. Preferably in the 1-2 area to prevent game breaking issues. Then, double or even triple the normal cost. This is just for game balance.
Neutronium_Dragon 09-06-07, 06:11 PM	Rather than worrying about Lesser Vigor, I would simply suggest that the armor have a property: Sprint Healing 1/15. Sprint Healing is like Fast Healing, but caps out at the second number per day, so this would five him Fast Healing 1 for a maximum of 15 points/day. Pricing it as a property? +4500 GP (3000, x1.5 since armor properties are considered secondary when expressed as a GP value). It's in about the right place, since it's not an enormously powerful ability.
groveborn 09-07-07, 04:53 AM	Rather than worrying about Lesser Vigor, I would simply suggest that the armor have a property: Sprint Healing 1/15. Sprint Healing is like Fast Healing, but caps out at the second number per day, so this would five him Fast Healing 1 for a maximum of 15 points/day. Pricing it as a property? +4500 GP (3000, x1.5 since armor properties are considered secondary when expressed as a GP value). It's in about the right place, since it's not an enormously powerful ability. I don't know where you get your pricing ideas, but the rest is sound. Armor has to have an enhancement already, so it is only logical that the price is as it should be listed. It would change price if it's placed using the Craft Wonderous feat.