Artificer "Retain Essence" w/flavorless Craft XP vs. Power Components [Archive] - Wizards Community

Artificer "Retain Essence" w/flavorless Craft XP vs. Power Components [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kevin Andrew Murphy
06-26-07, 08:35 PM Here's the trouble I'm having. I've got a player playing an Artificer, a perfectly decent if powerful class, but the trouble I've found is that the class is predicated on XP as effectively magic lamp oil. With their Retain Essence ability, any magic item without an immediate useful purpose or prominent resale value is smashed for XP. A silver milkpail that gives +5 to your Profession Milkmaid checks? SMASH! A Helm of Comprehending Drow Politics? SMASH! Magic corn that makes reindeer fly? SMASH!

Worse, in addition to the class pretty much cleansing the world of any quirky, entertaining or simply peculiar magic items, I'd gotten in the habit of using the DMGs optional rule for Power Components, bits of monsters or other things that would work well for certain spells but not for others. For example, if you've got a dead red dragon, you could use the Craft XP from it to craft Fire related items or Dragon related items, or especially Fire Dragon related items, but you're not going to be able to make a Lyre of Building or an Apparatus of Kwallish out of the thing.

It gets more complicated when you mix Retain Essence with other stuff. For example, by the RAW, you can have an Artificer take a Darkskull forged by a dark priest out of the sacrificed souls of tortured virgins, and rather than go through the complicated business of redeeming it as put forth in the BoED, the artificer can just smash if for the XP and turn around and use them to make a Holy Avenger, using his Use Magic Device to fake being good enough to make one. Heck, he can even sacrifice a few more souls and add some Liquid Pain and Extracted Demonic Essence while he's at it. Lamp oil is lamp oil.

I'm thinking of redlining the Artificer's ability to fake alignment requirements with UMD or simply make it moot by declaring instead that all Craft XP to make any item must come from appropriate sources. A Holy Avenger can be filled up with Liquid Joy, Light Craft XP sent by the gods (the counterpart to Dark Craft XP from the BoVD) or simply XP donated by anyone the DM designates as sufficiently holy, obviously paladins but even artificers if they actually are, as opposed to just faking it for a few minutes. I'd even allow a lawful evil wizard to make a Holy Avenger so long as the paladin donating the XP was right there and there was an appropriate story behind it, such as the wizard doing it as a favor to the king or as some variety of community service or even just the best way to get rid of some pesky demons.

I'm happier with the idea of artificers faking Racial prerequisites, because knocking off elven or dwarven craftsmanship is more in keeping with artifice.

Or should I declare that artificer creations are like the devices in 3.0 Faerun, not precisely magic but something else? And an artificer's Holy Avenger is actually a Sword of Smiting Bad People but has pretty much the same net effect.

Thoughts?
Pitiless_Interfector
06-26-07, 09:55 PM The artificer was designed for a world where the alignment system as written is more of a set of guidelines than an actual game mechanic. The artificer represents the 'scientist' of magic, and in keeping with a world far more modern than one like "Kingdoms of Kalamar" from Kenzerco, scientists are accepted as part of life. In a medieval world a la 'traditional' D&D, the artificer is generally either not present or derided as a heretic, in which case his ability to bupfkiss alignment requirements simply adds fuel to the fire.
Kevin Andrew Murphy
06-28-07, 03:42 AM The artificer was designed for a world where the alignment system as written is more of a set of guidelines than an actual game mechanic. The artificer represents the 'scientist' of magic, and in keeping with a world far more modern than one like "Kingdoms of Kalamar" from Kenzerco, scientists are accepted as part of life. In a medieval world a la 'traditional' D&D, the artificer is generally either not present or derided as a heretic, in which case his ability to bupfkiss alignment requirements simply adds fuel to the fire.

True enough. Though I think that he wouldn't be able to "untaint" Dark Craft XP, since according to the RAW he takes out the XP that was put in. So I suppose following that, he could make a tainted Holy Avenger, which would definitely make the paladins look cross-eyed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-26-07, 08:35 PM	Here's the trouble I'm having. I've got a player playing an Artificer, a perfectly decent if powerful class, but the trouble I've found is that the class is predicated on XP as effectively magic lamp oil. With their Retain Essence ability, any magic item without an immediate useful purpose or prominent resale value is smashed for XP. A silver milkpail that gives +5 to your Profession Milkmaid checks? SMASH! A Helm of Comprehending Drow Politics? SMASH! Magic corn that makes reindeer fly? SMASH! Worse, in addition to the class pretty much cleansing the world of any quirky, entertaining or simply peculiar magic items, I'd gotten in the habit of using the DMGs optional rule for Power Components, bits of monsters or other things that would work well for certain spells but not for others. For example, if you've got a dead red dragon, you could use the Craft XP from it to craft Fire related items or Dragon related items, or especially Fire Dragon related items, but you're not going to be able to make a Lyre of Building or an Apparatus of Kwallish out of the thing. It gets more complicated when you mix Retain Essence with other stuff. For example, by the RAW, you can have an Artificer take a Darkskull forged by a dark priest out of the sacrificed souls of tortured virgins, and rather than go through the complicated business of redeeming it as put forth in the BoED, the artificer can just smash if for the XP and turn around and use them to make a Holy Avenger, using his Use Magic Device to fake being good enough to make one. Heck, he can even sacrifice a few more souls and add some Liquid Pain and Extracted Demonic Essence while he's at it. Lamp oil is lamp oil. I'm thinking of redlining the Artificer's ability to fake alignment requirements with UMD or simply make it moot by declaring instead that all Craft XP to make any item must come from appropriate sources. A Holy Avenger can be filled up with Liquid Joy, Light Craft XP sent by the gods (the counterpart to Dark Craft XP from the BoVD) or simply XP donated by anyone the DM designates as sufficiently holy, obviously paladins but even artificers if they actually are, as opposed to just faking it for a few minutes. I'd even allow a lawful evil wizard to make a Holy Avenger so long as the paladin donating the XP was right there and there was an appropriate story behind it, such as the wizard doing it as a favor to the king or as some variety of community service or even just the best way to get rid of some pesky demons. I'm happier with the idea of artificers faking Racial prerequisites, because knocking off elven or dwarven craftsmanship is more in keeping with artifice. Or should I declare that artificer creations are like the devices in 3.0 Faerun, not precisely magic but something else? And an artificer's Holy Avenger is actually a Sword of Smiting Bad People but has pretty much the same net effect. Thoughts?
Pitiless_Interfector 06-26-07, 09:55 PM	The artificer was designed for a world where the alignment system as written is more of a set of guidelines than an actual game mechanic. The artificer represents the 'scientist' of magic, and in keeping with a world far more modern than one like "Kingdoms of Kalamar" from Kenzerco, scientists are accepted as part of life. In a medieval world a la 'traditional' D&D, the artificer is generally either not present or derided as a heretic, in which case his ability to bupfkiss alignment requirements simply adds fuel to the fire.
Kevin Andrew Murphy 06-28-07, 03:42 AM	The artificer was designed for a world where the alignment system as written is more of a set of guidelines than an actual game mechanic. The artificer represents the 'scientist' of magic, and in keeping with a world far more modern than one like "Kingdoms of Kalamar" from Kenzerco, scientists are accepted as part of life. In a medieval world a la 'traditional' D&D, the artificer is generally either not present or derided as a heretic, in which case his ability to bupfkiss alignment requirements simply adds fuel to the fire. True enough. Though I think that he wouldn't be able to "untaint" Dark Craft XP, since according to the RAW he takes out the XP that was put in. So I suppose following that, he could make a tainted Holy Avenger, which would definitely make the paladins look cross-eyed.