Artificer and Scribe Scrolls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Artificer and Scribe Scrolls [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Belfur
07-24-07, 04:51 AM If I understood correctly, an artificer can write a scroll from any level he can make the UMD roll for. With artificers getting several boni on UMD and of course specializing on it, they can even quite easily scribe scrolls of spell levels, a wizard of the same level could not yet dream about. In addition they have in the end also no problem to cast them from the scroll. Is this correct, or is there just a level cap on spells an artificer can scribe onto a scroll? Otherwise he would be able to outshine a wizard on the wizards (or clerics) own home teritorry.
DracoPhoenix
07-24-07, 11:43 AM If I understood correctly, an artificer can write a scroll from any level he can make the UMD roll for. With artificers getting several boni on UMD and of course specializing on it, they can even quite easily scribe scrolls of spell levels, a wizard of the same level could not yet dream about. In addition they have in the end also no problem to cast them from the scroll. Is this correct, or is there just a level cap on spells an artificer can scribe onto a scroll? Otherwise he would be able to outshine a wizard on the wizards (or clerics) own home teritorry.

Yep, but not as amazing as you think. Remember, while you could scribe a scroll of every spell going, 2 things limit what you can do:

1) Gold, and
2) XP

A wizard has a linear fairly low one time cost for putting spells in his spell book (with infinite repeat castings possible (*1)). The Artificer needs a scroll (or wand, potions etc) for every instance of a spell he wants to cast.

So, yes, resources permitting, he can cast fireballs from scrolls all day, or what ever else he wants, switching between them at will.

But doing that is going to burn resources. Artificers probably need to be even more cunning than the Wizard as they really do have to master "the right spell at the right time".

As for limit, you can create items 2 levels above yours, but doing so proportionately reduces the spells power (e.g. fireball at L5 (5d6?) scribed at L3 becomes 3d6(or what ever). So barring the odd "must have" item, it's probably worth waiting until you can do it at the appropriate level.

The cheaper items and crafting discount feats (in the same book), however, still make it worth it :).

Hope this helps.

Also, just in case you weren't aware, Artificer scrolls are of the "Artificer" type, so your wizard can't ask for scrolls to scribe into his book (or a CLW arcane scroll). That's official btw (Just don't ask for the source :( - I think it was an Ask Wizards job.)

*1: If sanity checking is required - XP / material etc limits still apply, yadda, yadda, yadda.
tarkin
07-24-07, 12:48 PM Even if Artificer scrolls were not artificer type, a wizard could not write a cure light into his book.

To cast OR learn a spell, the spell must be on your list. If not, you are out of luck.
cwslyclgh
07-24-07, 03:54 PM With artificers getting several boni on UMD and of course specializing on it, they can even quite easily scribe scrolls of spell levels, a wizard of the same level could not yet dream about.The plural of Bonus is Bonuses, not Boni, just so you know... I have seen some posters seem to take a real offense to the use of boni rather then bonuses (although why I have no idea).
Belfur
07-24-07, 05:05 PM You startled me for a moment, but these posters are wrong: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bonus , it is really boni, except there is some different nomenclature in D&D about Latin plural ;-)
Belfur
07-24-07, 05:48 PM But doing that is going to burn resources. Artificers probably need to be even more cunning than the Wizard as they really do have to master "the right spell at the right time".

As for limit, you can create items 2 levels above yours, but doing so proportionately reduces the spells power (e.g. fireball at L5 (5d6?) scribed at L3 becomes 3d6(or what ever). So barring the odd "must have" item, it's probably worth waiting until you can do it at the appropriate level.

I forgot about the reduced level rule, and sure it *is* expensive, but what I am concerned about more is, that the artificer could cast the fireball already, when the wizard cannot do it for another two levels.
But I was aware, that an artificer's scroll can only be read by him or someone else with high enough UMD.
cwslyclgh
07-24-07, 06:43 PM You startled me for a moment, but these posters are wrong: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bonus , it is really boni, except there is some different nomenclature in D&D about Latin plural ;-)

from the site that you linked to...

Noun
bonus (plural bonuses)

How the romans would have pluralized it makes no difference when you are typing the english language. The romans would not have understood your use of it anyway (in the context of the first post), as to the romans the word Bonus meant simply "good", as used in the scentance: "He is a good person."
Belfur
07-24-07, 06:59 PM oops, learned something new today :-) always nice!
Vharuck
07-24-07, 07:07 PM How much did that scroll of fireball cost the artificer though? Take 25 gp times caster level times spell level and you get 25x5x3 = 375 gp. Now the artificer pays half of that in gold (187.5 gp) and 1/25 in XP (15 XP) just to cast one spell. That fireball had better be worth it, considering that's a decent chunk of your character's loot value.

Created items are nice in pinches, but don't really ever rely on them over class abilities.
ArcTan
07-24-07, 07:34 PM from the site that you linked to...

How the romans would have pluralized it makes no difference when you are typing the english language. The romans would not have understood your use of it anyway (in the context of the first post), as to the romans the word Bonus meant simply "good", as used in the scentance: "He is a good person."

Actually, as the Wiktionary entry points out, the word "boni" exists in Latin, and is the plural of "bonus" meaning "good man" or "good person".

"Bonus" is *also* an adjective that simply means "good", and it is in this sense that it became the English word "bonus" meaning "something extra". While it sort of makes sense to pluralize this "bonus" "boni", it doesn't really -- it creates confusion with the proper Latin word "boni" for "good people" (as in the Boni political party in ancient Rome).
TiwazTyrsfist
07-25-07, 01:05 AM If I understood correctly, an artificer can write a scroll from any level he can make the UMD roll for. With artificers getting several boni on UMD and of course specializing on it, they can even quite easily scribe scrolls of spell levels, a wizard of the same level could not yet dream about. In addition they have in the end also no problem to cast them from the scroll. Is this correct, or is there just a level cap on spells an artificer can scribe onto a scroll? Otherwise he would be able to outshine a wizard on the wizards (or clerics) own home teritorry.

I'm pretty sure that for the purposes of all item creation feats an artificer is treated as a caster of the appropriate class with a CL equal to his artificer level +2.

So, A 3rd level artificer could scribe scrolls of fireball (since a fifth level wizard could) but could not scribe Chain lightning until he reaches 9th level (effective 11th level so he could cast 6th level spells).
DracoPhoenix
07-25-07, 03:42 AM I'm pretty sure that for the purposes of all item creation feats an artificer is treated as a caster of the appropriate class with a CL equal to his artificer level +2.

So, A 3rd level artificer could scribe scrolls of fireball (since a fifth level wizard could) but could not scribe Chain lightning until he reaches 9th level (effective 11th level so he could cast 6th level spells).

This is correct, with a slight important note - If you create a 5th level fireball at 3rd, it would be reduced to 3rd level strength (not 5th). Luckily most spells scale damage in a linear manner. So working that out is easy enough.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Belfur 07-24-07, 04:51 AM	If I understood correctly, an artificer can write a scroll from any level he can make the UMD roll for. With artificers getting several boni on UMD and of course specializing on it, they can even quite easily scribe scrolls of spell levels, a wizard of the same level could not yet dream about. In addition they have in the end also no problem to cast them from the scroll. Is this correct, or is there just a level cap on spells an artificer can scribe onto a scroll? Otherwise he would be able to outshine a wizard on the wizards (or clerics) own home teritorry.
DracoPhoenix 07-24-07, 11:43 AM	If I understood correctly, an artificer can write a scroll from any level he can make the UMD roll for. With artificers getting several boni on UMD and of course specializing on it, they can even quite easily scribe scrolls of spell levels, a wizard of the same level could not yet dream about. In addition they have in the end also no problem to cast them from the scroll. Is this correct, or is there just a level cap on spells an artificer can scribe onto a scroll? Otherwise he would be able to outshine a wizard on the wizards (or clerics) own home teritorry. Yep, but not as amazing as you think. Remember, while you could scribe a scroll of every spell going, 2 things limit what you can do: 1) Gold, and 2) XP A wizard has a linear fairly low one time cost for putting spells in his spell book (with infinite repeat castings possible (1)). The Artificer needs a scroll (or wand, potions etc) for every instance of a spell he wants to cast. So, yes, resources permitting, he can cast fireballs from scrolls all day, or what ever else he wants, switching between them at will. But doing that is going to burn resources. Artificers probably need to be even more cunning than the Wizard as they really do have to master "the right spell at the right time". As for limit, you can create items 2 levels above yours, but doing so proportionately reduces the spells power (e.g. fireball at L5 (5d6?) scribed at L3 becomes 3d6(or what ever). So barring the odd "must have" item, it's probably worth waiting until you can do it at the appropriate level. The cheaper items and crafting discount feats (in the same book), however, still make it worth it :). Hope this helps. Also, just in case you weren't aware, Artificer scrolls are of the "Artificer" type, so your wizard can't ask for scrolls to scribe into his book (or a CLW arcane scroll). That's official btw (Just don't ask for the source :( - I think it was an Ask Wizards job.) 1: If sanity checking is required - XP / material etc limits still apply, yadda, yadda, yadda.
tarkin 07-24-07, 12:48 PM	Even if Artificer scrolls were not artificer type, a wizard could not write a cure light into his book. To cast OR learn a spell, the spell must be on your list. If not, you are out of luck.
cwslyclgh 07-24-07, 03:54 PM	With artificers getting several boni on UMD and of course specializing on it, they can even quite easily scribe scrolls of spell levels, a wizard of the same level could not yet dream about.The plural of Bonus is Bonuses, not Boni, just so you know... I have seen some posters seem to take a real offense to the use of boni rather then bonuses (although why I have no idea).
Belfur 07-24-07, 05:05 PM	You startled me for a moment, but these posters are wrong: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bonus , it is really boni, except there is some different nomenclature in D&D about Latin plural ;-)
Belfur 07-24-07, 05:48 PM	But doing that is going to burn resources. Artificers probably need to be even more cunning than the Wizard as they really do have to master "the right spell at the right time". As for limit, you can create items 2 levels above yours, but doing so proportionately reduces the spells power (e.g. fireball at L5 (5d6?) scribed at L3 becomes 3d6(or what ever). So barring the odd "must have" item, it's probably worth waiting until you can do it at the appropriate level. I forgot about the reduced level rule, and sure it is expensive, but what I am concerned about more is, that the artificer could cast the fireball already, when the wizard cannot do it for another two levels. But I was aware, that an artificer's scroll can only be read by him or someone else with high enough UMD.
cwslyclgh 07-24-07, 06:43 PM	You startled me for a moment, but these posters are wrong: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bonus , it is really boni, except there is some different nomenclature in D&D about Latin plural ;-) from the site that you linked to... Noun bonus (plural bonuses) How the romans would have pluralized it makes no difference when you are typing the english language. The romans would not have understood your use of it anyway (in the context of the first post), as to the romans the word Bonus meant simply "good", as used in the scentance: "He is a good person."
Belfur 07-24-07, 06:59 PM	oops, learned something new today :-) always nice!
Vharuck 07-24-07, 07:07 PM	How much did that scroll of fireball cost the artificer though? Take 25 gp times caster level times spell level and you get 25x5x3 = 375 gp. Now the artificer pays half of that in gold (187.5 gp) and 1/25 in XP (15 XP) just to cast one spell. That fireball had better be worth it, considering that's a decent chunk of your character's loot value. Created items are nice in pinches, but don't really ever rely on them over class abilities.
ArcTan 07-24-07, 07:34 PM	from the site that you linked to... How the romans would have pluralized it makes no difference when you are typing the english language. The romans would not have understood your use of it anyway (in the context of the first post), as to the romans the word Bonus meant simply "good", as used in the scentance: "He is a good person." Actually, as the Wiktionary entry points out, the word "boni" exists in Latin, and is the plural of "bonus" meaning "good man" or "good person". "Bonus" is also an adjective that simply means "good", and it is in this sense that it became the English word "bonus" meaning "something extra". While it sort of makes sense to pluralize this "bonus" "boni", it doesn't really -- it creates confusion with the proper Latin word "boni" for "good people" (as in the Boni political party in ancient Rome).
TiwazTyrsfist 07-25-07, 01:05 AM	If I understood correctly, an artificer can write a scroll from any level he can make the UMD roll for. With artificers getting several boni on UMD and of course specializing on it, they can even quite easily scribe scrolls of spell levels, a wizard of the same level could not yet dream about. In addition they have in the end also no problem to cast them from the scroll. Is this correct, or is there just a level cap on spells an artificer can scribe onto a scroll? Otherwise he would be able to outshine a wizard on the wizards (or clerics) own home teritorry. I'm pretty sure that for the purposes of all item creation feats an artificer is treated as a caster of the appropriate class with a CL equal to his artificer level +2. So, A 3rd level artificer could scribe scrolls of fireball (since a fifth level wizard could) but could not scribe Chain lightning until he reaches 9th level (effective 11th level so he could cast 6th level spells).
DracoPhoenix 07-25-07, 03:42 AM	I'm pretty sure that for the purposes of all item creation feats an artificer is treated as a caster of the appropriate class with a CL equal to his artificer level +2. So, A 3rd level artificer could scribe scrolls of fireball (since a fifth level wizard could) but could not scribe Chain lightning until he reaches 9th level (effective 11th level so he could cast 6th level spells). This is correct, with a slight important note - If you create a 5th level fireball at 3rd, it would be reduced to 3rd level strength (not 5th). Luckily most spells scale damage in a linear manner. So working that out is easy enough.