Artificer+Persistent Spell+Time Stop=? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Artificer+Persistent Spell+Time Stop=? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
system breaker
11-17-04, 12:27 PM So, let's say that my 6+ level Artificer has in his possession a staff of Time

Stop, and has taken the Persistent Spell feat. He uses his Metamagic Trigger

ability (or Metamagic Item infusion) and casts a Persistent Time Stop. How

does this resolve??? Does he get 24 hours worth of actions that take a mere

one-round/6 seconds of "real" time? Can he rest for 8 hours, and regain his

infusions for the "day?" Can he use this time to craft items, and or use his

Retain Essence ability on items?
Sancus
11-17-04, 01:19 PM you cant make time stop persistent
Annaylli
11-17-04, 01:28 PM Well first of all I'd like to see Time Stop revised eventually to Duration: Instantaneous with the effect of 2-5 apparent rounds of actions and thus ineligible.

However since they didn't have development time to really fix all the highest level spells we'll look at the spell as written.

Yes, you have 24 hours worth of apparent time. It just cost you about 16,000gp in market value from the staff (which is a questionable gift from the DM). You can do this about 7 times per staff (Market value is 114,750gp). The XP used to create that 16,000gp value was about 640xp. The typical XP reward from an appropriate EL6 encounter is 450xp. I'm pretty sure the treasure from a EL6 encounter is below 16,000gp as well.

Can he rest? Sure but you can only effectively rest once per 24 hours. Also any spells cast within the last 8 real hours would not have their slots recharged (I probably wouldn't allow apparent time to circumvent this limit).

Can he craft? Sure but there is still a limit on 8 hours total craft time per day. A homunculus crafter is cheaper.

Can he retain essense? Sure but you cannot effect objects in the possession of a creature. The craft pool gain from retaining essense on the staff's charges would be higher than most items you could salvage by use of the staff in this manner.

Also all the normal limitations of time stop apply.

Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat.
You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.
You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.

Most traps would still effect you (including falling) and any Dispelling effects you trigger could end the spell.

Using persistant spell on Time Stop is likely very disruptive to a campaign and to a typical gaming group (they have to wait for you to resolve a full day's worth of actions) and thus as a DM I would disallow it flat out.
calypso
11-17-04, 02:15 PM you cant make time stop persistent

Again in bold. And... you can't make time stop persistent. It's in the FAQ.

Calypso
Annaylli
11-17-04, 03:45 PM Although it is not in the 3.5 FAQ, you are correct that it does indeed appear in the 3.0 FAQ last updated in Summer 2003.

Assuming you are high enough level to cast a persistent
time stop spell, could you use the virtual 24 hours the spell
lasts to rest and recover your spells?
You can’t make time stop persistent. (Its duration is
effectively instantaneous for purposes of the Persistent Spell
feat.)

Which oddly enough was my suggested fix.

Whether the 3.0 FAQ is authoritative in a strict case of rules lawyering is still debatable. It should have been fixed for 3.5 but wasn't.
smrtgmp
11-17-04, 06:30 PM Also, you can only use metamagic spell trigger item in conjunction with an item for which you have the appropriate item creation feat. Kind of odd that you get the ability prior to getting any item creation feats...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
system breaker 11-17-04, 12:27 PM	So, let's say that my 6+ level Artificer has in his possession a staff of Time Stop, and has taken the Persistent Spell feat. He uses his Metamagic Trigger ability (or Metamagic Item infusion) and casts a Persistent Time Stop. How does this resolve??? Does he get 24 hours worth of actions that take a mere one-round/6 seconds of "real" time? Can he rest for 8 hours, and regain his infusions for the "day?" Can he use this time to craft items, and or use his Retain Essence ability on items?
Sancus 11-17-04, 01:19 PM	you cant make time stop persistent
Annaylli 11-17-04, 01:28 PM	Well first of all I'd like to see Time Stop revised eventually to Duration: Instantaneous with the effect of 2-5 apparent rounds of actions and thus ineligible. However since they didn't have development time to really fix all the highest level spells we'll look at the spell as written. Yes, you have 24 hours worth of apparent time. It just cost you about 16,000gp in market value from the staff (which is a questionable gift from the DM). You can do this about 7 times per staff (Market value is 114,750gp). The XP used to create that 16,000gp value was about 640xp. The typical XP reward from an appropriate EL6 encounter is 450xp. I'm pretty sure the treasure from a EL6 encounter is below 16,000gp as well. Can he rest? Sure but you can only effectively rest once per 24 hours. Also any spells cast within the last 8 real hours would not have their slots recharged (I probably wouldn't allow apparent time to circumvent this limit). Can he craft? Sure but there is still a limit on 8 hours total craft time per day. A homunculus crafter is cheaper. Can he retain essense? Sure but you cannot effect objects in the possession of a creature. The craft pool gain from retaining essense on the staff's charges would be higher than most items you could salvage by use of the staff in this manner. Also all the normal limitations of time stop apply. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat. You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession. You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop. Most traps would still effect you (including falling) and any Dispelling effects you trigger could end the spell. Using persistant spell on Time Stop is likely very disruptive to a campaign and to a typical gaming group (they have to wait for you to resolve a full day's worth of actions) and thus as a DM I would disallow it flat out.
calypso 11-17-04, 02:15 PM	you cant make time stop persistent Again in bold. And... you can't make time stop persistent. It's in the FAQ. Calypso
Annaylli 11-17-04, 03:45 PM	Although it is not in the 3.5 FAQ, you are correct that it does indeed appear in the 3.0 FAQ last updated in Summer 2003. Assuming you are high enough level to cast a persistent time stop spell, could you use the virtual 24 hours the spell lasts to rest and recover your spells? You can’t make time stop persistent. (Its duration is effectively instantaneous for purposes of the Persistent Spell feat.) Which oddly enough was my suggested fix. Whether the 3.0 FAQ is authoritative in a strict case of rules lawyering is still debatable. It should have been fixed for 3.5 but wasn't.
smrtgmp 11-17-04, 06:30 PM	Also, you can only use metamagic spell trigger item in conjunction with an item for which you have the appropriate item creation feat. Kind of odd that you get the ability prior to getting any item creation feats...