Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tyron 05-10-05, 08:20 AM	Suppose this: You a very powerfull archmage wandering down the streets of a great city. Suddenly your magic is negated and an immense pain emanates from your spine. Your conscious fading everything becoming black..... What can be done against sneaks attack/death attack from a character wearing an anti magic field such as projected from an anti magic torc. You can't be warned with foresight, moment of prescience doesn't work. Is it possible to spot an anti magic field with arcane sight? Are there any options? Tyron
Eagle Prince 05-10-05, 08:45 AM	I think if you had a buff and then someone walked up to you with antimagic field, then you can make a Spellcraft chek DC 20 + spell level per buff to realise that it has just been surpressed. Check out Magical Oddities rule articles. That will tip you off, and then you can make a Spot check... you can make a spot check even if its not your turn. You shouldn't have much trouble seeing him. Chances are he couldn't even be hiding, because Hide In Plain Sight is supernatural and he is in antimagic... that also negates any large hiding bonuses from magical items, and he will have a -20 to Hide while attacking... you should have little or no trouble seeing him. Once you know he is there, at most all you'd need is a Sense Motive DC 20 to know he doesn't have good intentions, and if you recognise him as a threat then he can't death attack. He still might get you with a sneak attack if he wins initiative, but that's how it goes.
Findail 05-10-05, 09:02 AM	Simple answer: don't go wandering about like that. ...At least, not openly. If you need to walk the streets, go incognito. Don't wear wizard robes, and consider spells like Disguise Self.
Bonzai 05-10-05, 09:57 AM	Having 10 lvls in Divine Oracle helps.
Kyuketsukiouji 05-10-05, 09:58 AM	I see no reason why Foresight wouldn't work. "You're going to get stabbed in the back" works no matter if the stabber has antimagic or not, since it's you being stabbed, and you're magical.
Sproik 05-10-05, 10:12 AM	If you get raised from the dead. be sure to sack your bodyguards...
tarkin 05-10-05, 11:32 AM	And anti-magic can also be countered via Contigency. Try: "If my body is about to contact an anti-magic zone, Teleport me home".
calypso 05-10-05, 11:34 AM	And anti-magic can also be countered via Contigency. Try: "If my body is about to contact an anti-magic zone, Teleport me home". Heh heh heh. Nice!
TheGogmagog 05-10-05, 12:23 PM	There are plenty of ways to hide without using magic. A city will have plenty of cover. Even then, spot him or not it doesn't matter. You see someone very suspicious what do you do? Start casting? Teleport Away? Must blow living like that, you'll never get through market street. So you spot someone suspicious looking at you. You decide not to flee or attack based on that. He initiates combat and gets a suprise round. He decides to do a partial charge and draws his weapon attacking you while you are flat footed, and you are now in an anti magic aura. Your only hope is to a) survive the attack and make the save for massive damage or death attack or whatever, Then b) win initiative (good luck) c) 5' step out of antimagic field and flee. If the antimagic field is more than 5' you would just move and take the attack of opportunity, at least there is no sneak attack anymore. I'm not sure offhand what foresight does, but unless it denies him a suprise round, it will be too late to do any good. I would also guess it's a round per level spell, not something you run around with all day. The same for eagle princes detection method, unless you have a reason to act before the suprise round. Detecting that combat has started does you no good, you have no action and are flat footed. I would also need to read the contigency, but I wonder if contingency can activate if something is about to happen. Opposed to the usual, if this happens, then cast... That is the best idea I have seen so far though. Next to a follower with a resurrect scroll.
calypso 05-10-05, 01:07 PM	I'm not sure offhand what foresight does, but unless it denies him a suprise round, it will be too late to do any good. I would also guess it's a round per level spell, not something you run around with all day. ... I would also need to read the contigency, but I wonder if contingency can activate if something is about to happen. Opposed to the usual, if this happens, then cast... That is the best idea I have seen so far though. You could always read the spell descriptions, as opposed to conjecturing as to how they might work. Calypso
Eagle Prince 05-10-05, 01:26 PM	I already said you could still get attacked... but if you know they are there, they do not get a surprise round, and more importantly to the original post the assassin cannot use death attack. Surprise round and death attack are both void if the person knows you are there.
Crater 05-10-05, 05:34 PM	"If my body is about to contact an anti-magic zone, Teleport me home". As far as I can tell, a trigger situation has to actually occur for a contigency to activate. The possibility of a particular event happening in the future, no matter how imminent, would not work as a trigger. You could instead say 'If I come within 5' of an antimagic field, teleport me home.'
TheGogmagog 05-10-05, 11:33 PM	You could always read the spell descriptions, as opposed to conjecturing as to how they might work.well, now that I have more time, I looked them up and I hope you are sated. I see that Foresight lasts 10min/level. Longer than I thought but not exactly an all day spell. It's also a poorly worded spell nearly void of usefull game terms. The primary question is when exactly you recieve this warning. It alludes to taking an action, but never specifically states you recieve an action between the warning and the attack. If I were the DM for a character with this spell, I'd want some confirmation. I could always search all the FAQ, Errata, and E-mail customer service, but I don't hae the inclination. He also already stated that Foresight doesn't work. Either his DM ruling, or his DM's ruling if he's a player. My conjecture on teleport still seems to hold up. After reading the word for word, I'd allow the condition to work as expected. But I would not be suprised to see another DM rule that you need a triggering event that actually 'occurs' opposed to about to occur.
TheGogmagog 05-10-05, 11:59 PM	...but if you know they are there, they do not get a surprise round, and more importantly to the original post the assassin cannot use death attack. Surprise round and death attack are both void if the person knows you are there.I'm sorry, I was mistaken on the suprise round, you are right it doesn't occur if you are aware of them. It wouldn't be hard for the rogue to hide, and begin combat with the partial charge. Most of your conditions of detecting the assasin require him to move adjacent to you just before combat begins, rather than in the suprise round where it would be too late. I was also considering that in Assasin vs Archmage, the sneak attack damage is bound to kill the archmage alone, the death attack is just a contingency plan.
Eagle Prince 05-11-05, 12:40 AM	I doubt the assassin would even need antimagic field, he could just walk up and death attack the archmage. Even if he has some magic item that makes him immune to crits, easier to just pick pocket it from him or something lik that.
PhaedrusXY 05-11-05, 01:05 AM	I doubt the assassin would even need antimagic field, he could just walk up and death attack the archmage. Even if he has some magic item that makes him immune to crits, easier to just pick pocket it from him or something lik that.That's when his "If I'm attacked by a rogue" contingency goes off. ;)
kyberus 05-11-05, 01:34 AM	What about using persistent "invisibility", since the assassin is in an antimagic field, they can almost NEVER spot you since all abilities that let you actually SEE the invisible are Su or Sp or spells (never make a sneak attack, no? you can't sneak attack a blasted 5' square even if you know someone's in it), since magical items that would do so are moot, and if they turn off the antimagic field, therefor you never even meet the assassin, and use illusions to talk to people. I think that might work... maybe... :confused:
DragonsArt 05-11-05, 07:36 AM	And anti-magic can also be countered via Contigency. Try: "If my body is about to contact an anti-magic zone, Teleport me home". Wouldn't work. You can base contigiency off an event, not the possiblity of an event. Look at the examples in the book and you will see that none of them include the word "if".
robertliguori 05-11-05, 07:49 AM	Wouldn't work. You can base contigiency off an event, not the possiblity of an event. Look at the examples in the book and you will see that none of them include the word "if". "If I get as close to an antimagic field as is possible without actually being inside it, teleport me home." Good?
smrtgmp 05-11-05, 07:59 AM	You can base contigiency off an event, not the possiblity of an event. Look at the examples in the book and you will see that none of them include the word "if".I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Contingency is one big "if." "If I die..." "If I fall victim to polymorph..." "If I am grappled..." etc, etc. How could you possibly argue that a contingency cant include the word if?
smrtgmp 05-11-05, 08:04 AM	I was also considering that in Assasin vs Archmage, the sneak attack damage is bound to kill the archmage alone, the death attack is just a contingency plan. How would the sneak attack alone do him in? On a suprise round you're only getting one attack. Even if you have 10d6, thats not going to kill an archmage (I'm assuming we're talking 15th+ lvl here). 10d6 is an average of 35 points of damage. If your archmage has 35 or fewer hp, its a miricale you've survived this long. Generally speaking, you're going to try and put at least a 14 into con. By the time you've reached archmage status, you will likely have a con boosting item, but we'll ignore that for now for the sake of simplicity. With a 14 con, a 15th level wizard will have 67.5hp on average. Note that that is more than the max possible damage from a sneak attack.
DragonsArt 05-11-05, 08:13 AM	I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Contingency is one big "if." "If I die..." "If I fall victim to polymorph..." "If I am grappled..." etc, etc. How could you possibly argue that a contingency cant include the word if? Not really. It's actually based on an EVENT. So the correct way of phrasing it would be: "When I die..." "When I fall victim to polymorph..." Etc. It's a subtle difference, but one if a conditional statement and one is not. When you're a programmer, you look for these things.
jyshiow 05-11-05, 08:32 AM	Well i think if the DM plays it right, like busy street, assassin blends into the crowd and most wizards have pathetic spot since its a cross class skill, I will probably die, hey knowing the sadistic bastard that my DM is, the assassin's weapon is probably coated with some lethal poison anyway! But I will do it Manshoon style, i.e. have plenty of clones stashed away in different locations and come back for my revenge.
Derren S. 05-11-05, 08:48 AM	Not really. "When I die..." "When I fall victim to polymorph..." "When I am about to be affected by an AMF..."
Tyron 05-11-05, 09:47 AM	"When I am about to be affected by an AMF..." How can the spell detect this to happen: contingency is evocation not divinition magic. So I totally agree with DragonsArt. I see no reason why Foresight wouldn't work. "You're going to get stabbed in the back" works no matter if the stabber has antimagic or not, since it's you being stabbed, and you're magical. But the question is, is it possible for the foresight spell to sense someone with bad intentions in antimagic. If you rule that antimagic is a threat maybe then foresight would work in my opninion. You´re foresight would give a warning that an antimagic field is approaching. Opninions? I doubt the assassin would even need antimagic field, he could just walk up and death attack the archmage. Even if he has some magic item that makes him immune to crits, easier to just pick pocket it from him or something lik that. Don't forget that an high/epic level mage always has a moment of prescience on him allowing the mage to dramatically increase its armor class or its save and of course there is foiresight! What about using persistent "invisibility", since the assassin is in an antimagic field, they can almost NEVER spot you since all abilities that let you actually SEE the invisible are Su or Sp or spells (never make a sneak attack, no? you can't sneak attack a blasted 5' square even if you know someone's in it), since magical items that would do so are moot, and if they turn off the antimagic field, therefor you never even meet the assassin, and use illusions to talk to people. I think that might work... maybe... This might work, but the assasin could always study the subject for 3 rounds turn on his anti magic torc. Walk to the last known position of the mage. If guessed correct mage becomes visible and do his death attack. As far as I can see fly might work because its difficult for teh assasin to fly in an antimagic field and maybe foresight if antimagic is recognized as an threat. Any more thoughts? Ps I like the clones and a contingent true resurrection spell...wanna see the face of the assasin when he turns of his antimagic and the archmage comes back alive (through a contingent true resurrection) laughs and blasts the assasin into oblivion...:D
Kyuketsukiouji 05-11-05, 10:06 AM	That's what Project Image and Tenser's Floating Disk is for. What kind of stupid archmage walks around town undefended, anyways? And Robes of Fortification are your friend at any level.
EvilVegan 05-11-05, 10:52 AM	...
Moon-Lancer 05-11-05, 10:57 AM	were is the anti magic torc located. sorry for hijack.
ManTimeForgot 05-11-05, 03:48 PM	The arch-mage has a robe of eyes and permanent arcane sight. The assassin is a dead give away because he is lit up like a christmas tree due to all the powerful magical auras surrounding him. Yes, anti-magic field registers with arcane sight; it is still a magical effect even if it suppresses all other magic within it. Really doesn't matter if the assassin is ethereal, invisible, insubstantial, indivisible, or incognito (not that he can do any of that previous stuff anyway because he is in an antimagic field). He is going to be given away no questions asked. Another potential approach to this issue (and of this I am uncertain) is to have the wizard have ranks in spot (robe of eyes helps here too if I am not mistaken). When two abjuration spells overlap their areas of effect you see a visible distortion if memory serves. This means then all a wizard has to do is setup on area effect protection spell around himself, and then spot the distortion resulting from someone with abjuration magics closing in on him. The contingency for "when a rogue is within X feet of me" doesn't work either. Class is not an observable state. Magic auras, alignment, color, shape, time, space, consistency, race, etc are all observable states. So you could set a contingency against a strong abjuration aura being within 10 feet of you. You could set one against a creature made of adamantine or against something which is the color blue. You could set a contingency such that when X amount of time passes the spell goes off. All of these characteristics the character may not be aware of, but the contingency still goes off (no the character does not have to keep track of the whole time in order for the contingency to trigger). But this is not license to allow for indeterminables. How can a character possibly determine another's class in game? Skill sets, spell sets, attribute scores, and feats are all potentially observable features of a given individual, but no matter how many times you read a person's mind you will never be privy to information regarding class because that is a game statistic for players, not for characters. If I were truly worried about running around in a city, then I would set my contingency against an abjuration aura of strong or greater. Anyone walking around with protection spells of that high or higher is a potential threat. Now if I was in a city that I was considered local in, then that would change things. If I was worried about someone coming after me, then I would set a contingency against someone I could not recognize approaching within 10 feet of me. The latter only leaves local assassins with the possibility of getting me, and hopefully by the time I got to archmage I would have eliminated all the assassins in the locality. Another potential means of dealing with the issue is to be a smart wizard. Don't walk anywhere passed maybe 8th level. Use a flying carpet. If you don't have one, then teleport without error is good. Obtain a method for astrally projecting. Whatever you do, don't just walk around. Thank You all and have a nice day. Signed, The Man Time Forgot
eRaz0r 05-11-05, 04:27 PM	I don't know. At first I agreed that the Contingency spell wouldn't work because the conditions wouldn't be 'known' to it. (How can you know if you're going to enter an AMF ?) However, this is the spell text from the SRD You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead. The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level). The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to. (my emphasis added). I don't see anything in there that says the spell is restricted on the kinds of conditions that are usable. You specify the conditions, and if they're clear enough, the spell goes off. Contingency appears to have a certain omniscience when it comes to determining if it fulfills the conditions of activation. There's no reason you can't specify conditions such as "Whenever I'm attacked by surprise".. so why not "Whenever I'm attacked by a Rogue" ? You don't know when you're about to be attacked by surprise, and you don't know if that person attacking you is a Rogue. About all I'd say would be the latter is metagaming, but "Whenever I'm about to enter an AMF" is pretty clear, and fairly easy to determine, even without metagaming. Hmm - certainly something to consider.
IceFractal 05-11-05, 10:41 PM	The reason you couldn't specify that is that "Rogue" is a meaningless term within the game (actually, it means pretty much the same thing as a scoundrel, but I'm thinking that's not what you're looking for). People don't really have a class. Now you could detect certain distinctions perhaps, such as ability to use arcane/divine magic, alignment, type of weapons held, attacking from surprise or flanking, etc, which might let you specify something like "Do X if I'm attacked with a hidden weapon from a position of surprise", which would often be true when being attacked by assassins.
smrtgmp 05-12-05, 12:35 AM	Not really. It's actually based on an EVENT. So the correct way of phrasing it would be: "When I die..." "When I fall victim to polymorph..." Etc. It's a subtle difference, but one if a conditional statement and one is not. When you're a programmer, you look for these things.They achieve the same results, but you would allow one and not the other? If a DM tried to pull that crap with me I would smack him with my PHB and leave the game post hase. This isnt a computer program. As a DM you have to use common sense. You shouldnt be screwing over your players on minor semantic issues. Furthermore, nowhere in the rules does it state that you cant use "if," so there really is no "correct" way to say it.
Dire Celestial Bonobo 05-12-05, 02:54 AM	They achieve the same results, but you would allow one and not the other? Strictly speaking, there is a significant difference. That difference is that "if I'm about to be enveloped by an Antimagic Field" is conditional not on an observable event, but on the intentions of the guy moving the AMF around. What if he turns aside at the last moment? Then does the Contingency trigger incorrectly? Or does it "know" that he was going to turn aside, even though (a) that's a decision solely in the head of the assassin, and (b) that head is protected by an AMF, and so couldn't be examined by the Contingency even if you allowed it to read minds. In particular, this fails the requirement that "the conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear"---until it's too late, it's not clear to you that the AMF will indeed envelope you. Of course, considering that the phrasing could just be "whenever within 1' of an AMF" and---if you allow the Contingency to sense such a thing---pretty much the desired effect occurs, I don't really see what the issue is.
Dire Celestial Bonobo 05-12-05, 02:57 AM	That's when his "If I'm attacked by a rogue" contingency goes off. Keep in mind, he only gets one Contingency on him at a time, so he's well-advised to choose carefully and make it pretty general.
PhaedrusXY 05-12-05, 04:43 AM	Keep in mind, he only gets one Contingency on him at a time, so he's well-advised to choose carefully and make it pretty general.Yeah, I know. My reply was somewhat "tongue-in-cheek". A better contingency would be "if I'm about to be attacked", if the DM would let you get away with something "predictive" like that. Personally, I don't let contingencies trigger on events that are unknown to the character. So if the wizard doesn't see the rogue coming (i.e. he was surprized), he'd still get hit before his contingency went off, even with that trigger. I think only being able to have one Contingency in place is one of the major balancing factors for an otherwise overpowered spell. This is also why I feel that Chain Contingency and Craft Contingent Spell are really too powerful (though I still allow them in the game I DM).
smrtgmp 05-12-05, 04:54 AM	Strictly speaking, there is a significant difference. That difference is that "if I'm about to be enveloped by an Antimagic Field" is conditional not on an observable event, but on the intentions of the guy moving the AMF around.I wasnt speaking in terms of an AMF. Im talking about "If I die, teleport my body back to my tower." If the DM said, "No, sorry. You have to say, 'When I die'" I would be ticked, and rightfully so.
Ropeltaja 05-12-05, 05:53 AM	You shouldnt be screwing over your players on minor semantic issues. Unless your players cast wish...
Tyron 05-13-05, 01:26 PM	-Thus it is perfectly ok to have a contingency that is triggered when a antimagic field is witnin 5 feet of the caster? -Thus do you agree that foresight might warn for an impending anti magic field? Thx
smrtgmp 05-13-05, 07:18 PM	I'm up in the air on the AMF thing. I would be inclined to say no (just a gut reaction). However, I definately think Foresight would warn you. It warns you of impending danger; the source is irrelevant.
The Simbul 05-14-05, 03:00 AM	Suppose this: You a very powerfull archmage wandering down the streets of a great city. Suddenly your magic is negated and an immense pain emanates from your spine. Your conscious fading everything becoming black..... What can be done against sneaks attack/death attack from a character wearing an anti magic field such as projected from an anti magic torc. You can't be warned with foresight, moment of prescience doesn't work. Is it possible to spot an anti magic field with arcane sight? Are there any options? TyronForesight could inform you of the presence of a hostile entity long before he attacks, and in turn long before he comes within 10 feet of you. Moment of Prescience wont work once you are within the Antimagic Field, however it can be triggered before that event occurs (such as when foresight alerts you to the assasin's presence), mainly to boost your opposed Initiative check against the assasin once you have negated the possibility of a suprise round. Arcane Sight can allow you to see an Antimagic Field just as easily as any other spell-like effect of a magic item.I see that Foresight lasts 10min/level. Longer than I thought but not exactly an all day spell.Well it lasts longer than an Antimagic Field triggered from a CL 11 magic item. Even if he has some magic item that makes him immune to crits, easier to just pick pocket it from him or something lik that.Umm yeah, because we all know that assasins have the opportunity to use scrolls of identify (UMD DC 21+) and the 8-hour activation time that comes with it, on all the possessions of their intended targets while the target is still wearing them, just to find out "which once protects him from critical hits".
The Simbul 05-14-05, 03:07 AM	Furthermore, if an Assassin can have a necklace that emulates Antimagic Field 1/day, then there is no reason why the Archmage cannot have a crystal ball/magic mirror that emulates Divination (Clr4) once per day, with which one of the myriad of yes or no questions asked can be "Will I be attacked today", which can further be followed up with additional questions to narrow down the time/place/specifics of the occurence at hand.
Durath 05-14-05, 04:13 AM	I say you have all missed the obivous.... the best way to fight an assasin as a wizard is to just give in to necromatic urges and become a pale master. There you go, immunity to critical hits/sneak attacks. Sure you lose a few caster levels but you really become quite powerful in the tradeoff. Plus you can't be stunned, so that pesky death attack when used for paralysis automatically fails. The pale master class also gives great fortitude saves in case they use the death ability. As for the whole when/if debate honestly in the game here it is moot. "the conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear although they can be general." On the other hand being very technical if you cast contingency and say when I die teleport me somewhere, that's technically going to deliver your dead body to whatever location you set for the teleport. I believe the correct wording is "when I am about to die." If the pale master is not for you, and an assasin wearng an antimagic torc (where does this appear???) comes to kill you then you just better pray you set your contingency to teleport away or die. In any normal realistic game just cast contingency: Otiluke's Resilient Sphere on your self set for when you are attacked. You can't be physically attacked and the rogue no matter how good he is has to spend an entire turn destroying the sphere using some magical means. Personally I'd never allow an anti magic torc in my game as it seems to allow way too much power to be given to a non-caster while simultaneously making a caster utterly worthless. If people want to go around casting antimagic field that's fine. If really well equipped rogues run around with a scroll of antimagic field and want to run the risk of failure using that scroll that would also be fine. I would say it would be more realistic to say that if the assasin is allowed to have an anti magic torc, then the mage is allowed to have a complete physical immunity torc artifact (which if you didn't know works for an identical number of rounds per day as an anti-magic torc, and is automatically triggerd to activate when it comes into the presence of an anti magic torc. The wearer is immune to any damage dealt from any kind of weapon be it natural or otherwise.) I mean really, would Anyone in this entire thread allow an anti magic torc in their game? Why would you allow one if you are so inclined?
smrtgmp 05-14-05, 04:41 AM	I mean really, would Anyone in this entire thread allow an anti magic torc in their game?I certainly woulldn't.
ronyon 05-15-05, 11:28 AM	Torc or no torc, the attack can still happen. In fact it is exactly the sort of thing players are likely to try. It could be a wizard/assasin team up, or a cleric/rouge with the right domains/prestige classes. It could even be a spellcaster using Ex. Spell Aim, thus getting his buffs/items to everything but the damage. Contingency seems to be quite able to protect aginst a anti-magic feild, but what about a dimensional anchor and an animagic feild? Look, your DM can always hose you, most easily with things you thought of your self.A good DM might scare you "shipless" with an attack like this,maybe using it as an oppertunity to shake you down,wake you up, releive you of that annoying magic item he let you make, and giving your roughed up, wedgied, mighty archmage a great adventure hook. Trust me, few things make for a more interesting adventure than gearing up to pursue someone who could have killed you out of hand. Allow me to ramble, offtopic( warning) The game cannot be realistic, in that every good tactic cannot be used,lest it lead to a "Rooftop SniperMan Duel". This occures when a group of "heros" realizes that the know who the bad gusy are, and where they are,so why not just wait 1000 yards(adjust up/down for tech/magic) away on a rooftop, and plug him when he/she/ they go out in the morning to get the paper/walk the dog/use the out house. Successful or not, this leads to teams of minions hunting down your (the hero) location and retaliating. Cool game ? Maybe, but not to most peopkles taste. The game has to follow some rules of decorum, or the players are hosed, every time.
Vaelan 05-15-05, 06:15 PM	I mean really, would Anyone in this entire thread allow an anti magic torc in their game? Yes, I would. Of course, getting one might be a different matter since no sane spellcaster would make one. Any Wizard with enough Intelligence to cast Antimagic Field is smart enough to realize that they really don't want one of these things around.
The Simbul 05-22-05, 08:37 PM	Solution to the Spellcaster vs. a Warrior-type-with-an-Antimagic Torc dilemma, in 3 simple steps. 1) Wizard casts Invoke Magic (Sor/Wiz9, swift-action casting time, Lords of Madness p.212). Wizard can now cast a single spell of 4th level or lower in an Antimagic/Dead-Magic/Null-Magic location for the next round. 2) Wizard casts Dimension Door to leave the area. 3) Wizard uses a Wish spell or multiple Mordenkainen's Disjunction spells to destroy the Antimagic Field, and proceeds to annihilate the assailant.
ronyon 05-24-05, 04:03 PM	Can Invoke Magic be cast in an Anti-Magic feild?
Merestil Haye 05-24-05, 07:57 PM	Ronyon; yes you can. The spell's text explicitly allows it to be used in an antimagic field. Simbul; a little nitpick here.Umm yeah, because we all know that assasins have the opportunity to use scrolls of identify (UMD DC 21+) and the 8-hour activation time that comes with it, on all the possessions of their intended targets while the target is still wearing them, just to find out "which once protects him from critical hits".The nitpick is that the 3.5 version of the Identify spell takes only one hour to cast. That being said, I entirely agree that no adventurer in his right mind is going to let some strange person come up to him in the street and cast an Identify spell to learn the properties of his items. He can just walk away. Or Fly. Or Teleport. Wasting the spell.
Rundor The Mighty 05-24-05, 08:28 PM	They finally made a spell that can save your behind in an AMF thank god, now at least very high level mages have a chance. You could also at lower levels spend some dough on getting a scroll of it for emergencys.
tiercel 05-24-05, 09:13 PM	Ungh. First of all, if you are allowing items to duplicate spell effects that only target the caster, you are in for a world of hurt generally. That's why I thought that antimagic wasn't necessarily epic level magic - because it nerfs the very person who casts it (and is also why it is a lower level Sor/Wiz spell than Cleric spell, with the exception of domains). Secondly, as has been pointed out, I can't imagine too many casters that would want to craft an item like this. Sure, your stereotypical Mad Cackling Evil Mage squatting in his Volcano Lair gibbering to himself about wiping out all other magery on the planet might make one so that Thoknar the Bloody can find it and bring some greataxe takedowns to spellcasters... but in general it is not rational for someone who lives and dies by their magical abilities to create an easily portable way to nullify those abilities and hand it out. Thirdly, if one of these antimagic widgets was made and someone started using it, if wizards had any sort of organization at all, the local Guild would very quickly get a very lucrative contract on Mr. No Magic, who would rudely be accosted by six very large guys all named Vinny with no magical tricks allowed to get out of a grapple. One bloody pounding later, the Wizards' Guild would receive a parcel with a tightly sealed box (antimagic is an emanation), which would then be packed off to the nearest volcano to be nonmagically dissolved by liquid hot mag-ma. (Of course, if you feel that is inelegant or risky, you could have the Guildmaster throw disjunctions at the thing until it breaks. If it counts as an artifact, just make sure your Guildmaster is packing a luck blade before he gets started.)
The Simbul 05-24-05, 10:16 PM	Can Invoke Magic be cast in an Anti-Magic feild?Given that the spell only lasts for one round and only applies to one spell, then I imagine it would be rather stupid for not to be capable of such.
Dracolich01 05-25-05, 07:26 AM	Solution to the Spellcaster vs. a Warrior-type-with-an-Antimagic Torc dilemma, in 3 simple steps. 1) Wizard casts Invoke Magic (Sor/Wiz9, swift-action casting time, Lords of Madness p.212). Wizard can now cast a single spell of 4th level or lower in an Antimagic/Dead-Magic/Null-Magic location for the next round. 2) Wizard casts Dimension Door to leave the area. 3) Wizard uses a Wish spell or multiple Mordenkainen's Disjunction spells to destroy the Antimagic Field, and proceeds to annihilate the assailant. Yes indeed. thats how i'd do it. However i got the detect thoughts as a spell like ability because of innate spell as a feat and pemanency just for things like that. Also i very rarely walk around town, teleportation is the way of the future.