Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZhuGeLiang 06-25-06, 11:37 AM	This may sound like a n00b question, but - can assassins cast their spells in light armour without incurring arcane spell failure? I can't find anywhere in the class description that specifically defines this. It says that assassins cast spells "just as a bard does". Does that only mean that assassins do not need to prepare spells ahead of time, or does it also mean that assassins can cast in light armour without incurring arcane spell failure, like bards?
SoldierOfFortune187 06-25-06, 11:52 AM	The only line I can find that shifts my feelings one way or the other is in the bard's class description: "A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure..." Meaning that if the bard somehow learned to cast spells from another list (say, by taking a level in assassin), he would only bypass ASF while casting from his bard spell list. So assassins, because it does not specifically give them this ability (with regards to their assassin spell list), would still have ASF for their spell list, they simply need not prepare a spell before time (as a bard does). Hope this helps.
runestar 06-25-06, 12:31 PM	Ironically, it also implies that an assassin has to sing to cast his spells and they cannot be modified by the silent spell feat... :rolleyes:
cwslyclgh 06-25-06, 12:38 PM	they simply need not prepare a spell before time (as a bard does)then why not say as a sorcerer does? The sentence "An assassin cast spells as a bard does." would lead me to read it as read the bard spell casting section and replace the word bard with assassin as you do so... so an assassin's spells would require a verbal component even if they do not otherwise say so, and an assassin could cast assassin spells (but not spells from other spell lists) in light armor. Otherwise it would be much more apropraie to point people in the sorcerer's spell casting ability as a model.
ZhuGeLiang 06-26-06, 02:01 PM	i forgot about the required verbal component part of Bard spell casting. kind of put an Assassin at a disadvantage when he's trying to sneak around and cast spells at the same time.
Izzak 06-26-06, 02:27 PM	maybe whispering wiII work
ZhuGeLiang 06-26-06, 05:46 PM	Actually, I just checked the class description for the Bard. Nowhere in there does it say that a Bard's spells all require verbal components even when they normally do not. It says that "Every bard spell has a verbal component", and I think that just means that it just so happens that all of a Bard's spells do normally require verbal components. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm And on top of that, the class description does not say that a Bard's spells cannot use Silent Spell. However, at the Feat description for Silent Spell itself, it says specifically that the feat cannot be applied to Bard spells. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#silentSpell So I think it would be legal to apply Silent Spell to Assassin spells. How about the armoured casting though? Am I correct in thinking that Assassins can cast spells in light armour without incurring arcane spell failure?
cwslyclgh 06-26-06, 07:36 PM	It says that "Every bard spell has a verbal component", and I think that just means that it just so happens that all of a Bard's spells do normally require verbal components.that would only be true if all the bard spells listed did infact have V listed in the component line, however they do not, gasious form, greater invisibility, and mislead are all on the bard spell list and have no verbal component according to thier stat blocks. That makes the statement in the bard spell casting description in error, unless it actually does mean that bard spells have a verbal component whether the spell lists one or not... it would indicate the same for assassin spells, since you would just read the bard section and replace the word bard with assassin. And on top of that, the class description does not say that a Bard's spells cannot use Silent Spell. However, at the Feat description for Silent Spell itself, it says specifically that the feat cannot be applied to Bard spells.if it says it in the feat and not the bard spell casting area, it means that it is okay to apply the silent spell feat to assassin spells. How about the armoured casting though? Am I correct in thinking that Assassins can cast spells in light armour without incurring arcane spell failure?I would agree that assassins can cast assassin spells in light armor with no chance of arcane spell failure, but that would not apply to spells gained from any other arcane spell casting class the character casts (unless that class has a similar proviso).
ZhuGeLiang 06-26-06, 09:55 PM	You're right about Gaseous Form and Mislead, but Greater Invisibility does have a verbal component listed. Anyway, logically it just doesn't make sense that Assassins would have the same verbal requirement on spell casting that Bards do. But whatever. :P
cwslyclgh 06-27-06, 02:00 AM	Anyway, logically it just doesn't make sense that Assassins would have the same verbal requirement on spell casting that Bards do.often the rules do not make sense, because the designers don't always bo thier proper homework :P