Post/Author/DateTime	Post
azmodael 06-24-06, 06:48 AM	Hello everybody, i am new :) Anyone seen this spell (assay spell resistance). My DM and friend are arguing, because half think it is too damn good. 4 lvl spell that lets you beat almost ANY SR without any problems for no action (casting time is 1 swift). Can you please tell me what you think about it?
worst_player_ever 06-24-06, 08:26 AM	The spell is fine. Besides, you can only use it for 1 creature x time.
dregonflyus 06-24-06, 12:04 PM	Speaking of assay resistance, I was trying to find other ways to beat SR. I know you can pick up the spell penetration feats, practiced spell caster and arcane mastery but is there anything else that can help a lv 8 spell caster beat a SR of 39? O and I think the spell is great like in the example I mentioned above.
cwslyclgh 06-24-06, 01:34 PM	assay spell resistance is a solid spell, but I would not call it overpowered realy, if it grated you a +10 to caster level checks against all foes for the duration of the spell, then yes it would be to powerful, but against 1 specific foe per casting it is fine.
The Simbul 06-24-06, 01:59 PM	I personally think the spell should only apply to the next spell cast. It effectively negates SR altogether for most equal CR encounters (as most creatures have SR of 10/11 + HD), and quite frankly a competently built spellcaster only needs 1-2 spells to bring down a single equal CR foe.
Andrew 06-24-06, 02:33 PM	Speaking of assay resistance, I was trying to find other ways to beat SR. I know you can pick up the spell penetration feats, practiced spell caster and arcane mastery but is there anything else that can help a lv 8 spell caster beat a SR of 39?There's lower spell resistance from Draconomicon, and a spell with identical effects but a different name that I think was in the Planar Handbook, but I can't be sure of that one. 4th level Sor/Wiz spell that drops a creature's SR by your caster level. There is a save to negate the effect, but your opponent gets a penalty on the save equal to your caster level, so you've usually got a shot, but if you find it, pay attention to the casting time - one round. Still doesn't really get past your problem of SR 39. Is this a not-subtle hint that your DM does not want your group killing this monster, or does he specifically not want you spelling this monster? Had to use the lower spell resistance + assay spell resistance combination to deal with Asmodeus's SR 45, only to have another party member's vorpal weapon one-round him. Of course, then Mephistopheles and Lucifer jumped out. Yes, this was the end climax of that campaign, and I had specifically been told "don't hold back."
Warmage-in-Onley 06-24-06, 02:39 PM	Or you could try some of the growing number of spells that have spell resistance = no. Most are direct damage, but sometimes you gotta take what you're given.
BaelinWhale 06-24-06, 06:37 PM	Assay Spell Resistance is fine. Can't really imagine why people think it's too good since it forces a caster to use up a lot of magic to bring down extraordinarily powerful opponents. In most cases, it's a spell of emergency that only works against 'boss' monsters who have SR through the roof (Illithids and Rakshasas). Against anything else, it's just a waste of a spell (or more) per day.
azmodael 06-29-06, 05:16 PM	Hmpf without this spell you got an average chance of 50% to beat a creature's spell resistance. In fact it actually ignores the spell resistance of a single creature without an action at all. Of course it uses up a lvl 4 slot, but once you've got 5 lvl spells and even 6 lvl it doesn't hurt too much. Nevertheless me and my group usually prefer low to mid levels 4-7 and after the cleric came up with a divination revealing that we were gonna face a green dragon the quarrel started. Usually there is one tough monster behind the scene and these pretty often have some SR. Of course you got lvl3 spell Vulnerability, but it gives a Fort save and it isn't that good at all.
Bopple 07-05-06, 01:52 AM	From a statistical point of view, it's a very good spell, but perhaps not overpowered. From a fun point of view, it's damn too powerful, because it makes BBEG go down quickly. DM's efforts to build up a BBEG crumble at the feet of it. After the introduction of this spell, the combat against BBEG has changed drastically.
cwslyclgh 07-05-06, 02:06 AM	the vast majority of the BBEG's that I use don't rely upon SR anyway (at least not overly so, in thier case if they have SR it is not the focus of thier defenses I pretty much assume that the players will fgind ways around it anyway, there are enough SR ignoring spells out there in any case), so it realy hasn't affected my game in that way.
Bopple 07-05-06, 02:16 AM	Perhaps not in your game, but that doesn't represent the general. Most of the powerful and iconic creatures are dragons and outsiders. Look at any monster manual, the most powerful monsters are dragons and outsiders. SR is not the one and only factor of the power of BBEG. But it's undeniable that SR has a significant portion of their defense. And Assay Resistance nullifies that portion of defense, totally.
cwslyclgh 07-05-06, 02:22 AM	I use plenty of dragons and demons and devils in my game, but they are not as a general rule the BBEG, in my game the BBEG is almost always a person of some sort... BBEG means big bad evil GUY after all... I have a hard time thinking of Phylophaks the great red wyrm as a "guy". character class levels give my bad guys verisitility and options that pulling a dull old balor out of the MM lack...
Bopple 07-05-06, 02:35 AM	I use plenty of dragons and demons and devils in my game, but they are not as a general rule the BBEG, in my game the BBEG is almost always a person of some sort... BBEG means big bad evil GUY after all... I have a hard time thinking of Phylophaks the great red wyrm as a "guy". character class levels give my bad guys verisitility and options that pulling a dull old balor out of the MM lack... Again, that's your opinion and game. Don't generalize it. BBEG can be human, dragon, outsider, abberation, or any other monster. And you know that 'GUY' doesn't mean a guy.
cwslyclgh 07-05-06, 02:45 AM	Perhaps not your game, but that doesn't represent the general. and I would argue that your point of view doesn't represent the general any more then mine does... you offored an oppinion, which I commented on with an opinion of my own... (never claimed it was anything other, unless making a direct rules quote EVERYTHING that any of us say on these boards is our "oppionion")... to which you retorted by basically telling me that I play an abberent game that is not worth considering in the grand scheme of things... :rolleyes: seeking to give a little more in way of explanation simply leads to more dismissal of my thoughts... Again, that's your opinion and game. Don't generalize it. perhaps you should get over yourself and realize that other peoples oppinions are just as valid as yours.
Bopple 07-05-06, 02:57 AM	The point is, your opinion has no supporting basis other than your personal preferance(creating common race based characters). My opinion is based on the 'fact' that most powerful creatures in any kind of monster manual, have high SR. Yes, common race creatures can be BBEG, but monsters also can. It seems obvious to me, which is the more objective, yours or mine. Or they are foolish enough to publish books like Fiendish Codex or Dragons of Faerun. (I am not saying we must use Asmodeus as BBEG to kill, but saying they are good examples of monster BBEG)
cwslyclgh 07-05-06, 03:11 AM	My opinion is based on the 'fact' that most powerful creatures in any kind of monster manual, have high SR. Yes, common race creatures can be BBEG, but monsters also can. I never said that they couldn't... or even that they shouldn't... however any creature worthy of being called a BBEG should realize that relying on SR as a major component of it's defense is idiotic... and BBEG's do not become BBEG's by being idiotic. If the characters have access to assay spell resistance, then the BBEG should know that people (not just the PC's but any potential enemies) have access to that spell and plan accordingly. Or they are foolish enough to publish books like Fiendish Codex or Dragons of Faerun.I get just as much use out of those books, perhaps more, since I do not automatically say "high CR, lets use this as the BBEG" I say High CR, lets see how my players like running into two of these as servants of the BBEG. I guess I just don't see your point about the number of high CR monsters with spell resistance and this spell fioling BBEG encounters. even on those rare occasions that I do use a monster as the BBEG, generaly I do not worry over much about this spell, BBEG encounters are rarely with the BBEG alone, and even if they do lower the BBEG's spell resistance the fight ends up being being tense.
Bopple 07-05-06, 03:31 AM	I never said that they couldn't... or even that they shouldn't... however any creature worthy of being called a BBEG should realize that relying on SR as a major component of it's defense is idiotic... and BBEG's do not become BBEG's by being idiotic. If the characters have access to assay spell resistance, then the BBEG should know that people (not just the PC's but any potential enemies) have access to that spell and plan accordingly. That's a vain argument. Then why on earth do we have to care about the inherent powerlevel of a monster, a spell, a feat, an item, or whatever? We can plan accordingly anyway. Tactics doesn't have anything to do with the inherent powerlevel of a monster. SR is a factor of defense - a factor of power. With a single spell, you can totally nullify a part of it. I know of a spell similar to this - Wraithstrike. I get just as much use out of those books, perhaps more, since I do not automatically say "high CR, lets use this as the BBEG" I say High CR, lets see how my players like running into two of these as servants of the BBEG. Not really relevant matter here. I guess I just don't see your point about the number of high CR monsters with spell resistance and this spell fioling BBEG encounters. even on those rare occasions that I do use a monster as the BBEG, generaly I do not worry over much about this spell, BBEG encounters are rarely with the BBEG alone, and even if they do lower the BBEG's spell resistance the fight ends up being being tense. Again, irrelevant.
cwslyclgh 07-05-06, 03:35 AM	dismissimg my ideas does not make yours any righter... as I said get over your self.
Bopple 07-05-06, 03:39 AM	dismissimg my ideas does not make yours any righter... as I said get over your self. Huh? I didn't say right or wrong. I said irrelevant. Or care to explain, how those sentences are relevant to this matter? EDIT) BTW, I am curious of your tactics against buffing spells like Assay Resistance or Wraithstrike.
Zillah 07-05-06, 03:56 AM	planar handbook has the SAME dracinomicon spell but under a different name. 1. spell vulnerability is the name 2. level 3 instead of 4 3. they take a penalty equal to your caster level to the save. so if you are level 10, they take a -10 to there save. its niffty. if you REALLY want to be *****y take both. they are different spell levels, same 3.5 edition. do both and drop there SR altogether. usually -15 should be enough... if a creature has more SR then like 35 then its epicness to me
Bopple 07-05-06, 04:20 AM	planar handbook has the SAME dracinomicon spell but under a different name. They do the absolutely same thing and there is no Lower Resistance in Spell Compendium. It seems Spell Vulnerability replaces Lower Resistance. BTW, it is not so good because it takes 1 full round to cast. And it no longer penalizes Fort-save.
Dreamfeed 07-05-06, 05:32 AM	Tactics doesn't have anything to do with the inherent powerlevel of a monster. SR is a factor of defense - a factor of power. With a single spell, you can totally nullify a part of it. I know of a spell similar to this - Wraithstrike. Everything is a factor of power. And guess what - you can drop them all. Hitpoints are a factor of power. Damaging spells drop that. Damage reduction. There's align weapon, and equipment. Spells are. Counterspelling, dispelling. Attack bonus. Many ways to drop that one. AC you already mentioned (and there's a lot more). In the end, your players should win, and if they spend recources to overcoming a creature's defenses, they're just playing smart. I don't see a spell that lowers spell resistance as any more powerfull than one that allows you to ignore, say, damage reduction, more so because you could simply ignore it by using different spells or just getting in melee (while you could ignore DR by using spellcasting and battlefield control instead of straight up attacking).
Bopple 07-05-06, 06:03 AM	Everything is a factor of power. And guess what - you can drop them all. Hitpoints are a factor of power. Damaging spells drop that. Damage reduction. There's align weapon, and equipment. Spells are. Counterspelling, dispelling. Attack bonus. Many ways to drop that one. AC you already mentioned (and there's a lot more). In the end, your players should win, and if they spend recources to overcoming a creature's defenses, they're just playing smart. I don't see a spell that lowers spell resistance as any more powerfull than one that allows you to ignore, say, damage reduction, more so because you could simply ignore it by using different spells or just getting in melee (while you could ignore DR by using spellcasting and battlefield control instead of straight up attacking). It depends upon how much it affects. There are these difference between them and Wraithstrike/Assay Resistance; 1. Damage spells - is there any damage spell that totally do away with HP, instantly without a save? Wraithstrike and Assay Resistance totally nullify AC and SR, respectively. 2. DR - because there are many types of DR, you have to invest much to cover them all. But AC is AC and SR is SR. 3. Dropping attack bonus - I am not sure what kind of spell can reduce attack bonus totally(or by half, at least), without any save. Yes, things are to be countered. But it depends on how easy it is. Have you ever used Shivering Touch or Quill Blast as they are? I don't think it's a matter of countering or tactics.
Thiez 07-05-06, 10:53 AM	You can effectively drop another creature's attack bonus by raising your own AC. And that's not that hard to do. Hey, guess what: some transmutation spells give you full conceilment, that makes your opponent miss... 50% of the time, so it effectively drops half of its attack bonus. And it's no save for your opponent. There are so many spells that prevent getting hit, that no-one really cares to drop an opponents attack bonus ^^
kalstrand 07-05-06, 11:21 AM	Assay Resistance and Wraithstrike don't totally eliminate SR and AC. It just makes them much easier to deal with. If you are fighting something with an insane touch AC Wraithstrike isn't going to help much same with something with a very high SR.
Bopple 07-05-06, 11:33 AM	You can effectively drop another creature's attack bonus by raising your own AC. And that's not that hard to do. To raise AC high enough to effectively halve foe's attack bonus, you have to invest almost all the money in AC gears. Or you have to optimize your character, to the point of munchikinnism. Hey, guess what: some transmutation spells give you full conceilment, that makes your opponent miss... 50% of the time, so it effectively drops half of its attack bonus. And it's no save for your opponent. It seems you are mentioning of Blink. You can easily weaken Blink with See Invisibility or Invisibility Purge. If you cast Blink yourself on top of that, you suffer no penalty. Is there any similar(and easy) way to get around Wraithstrike or Assay Resistance? There are so many spells that prevent getting hit, that no-one really cares to drop an opponents attack bonus ^^ Not sure what many spells you are referring to, but I think they are to do with concealment. Concealment is not hard thing to deal with. I haven't heard Superior Invisibility being praised. If the effect can be easily countered, it's not overpowered. For example, let's see 100/magic DR. Is it all that really powerful? I don't think so.
Thiez 07-05-06, 11:40 AM	You're saying: blink is not as strong as Wraithstrike and Assay Resistance because I can dispel it and/or counter it. Hey, you can dispel just about anything! :eek:
Derren S. 07-05-06, 11:47 AM	Assay spell resistence is way too powerfull. This spell makes SR, a major defense against spelllcasting (At least before every second spell was conjuration/no SR) useless. And that for a swift action. Why take Spell penetration when you have assay resistance? That in only works against one opponent is no issue, because all winnable encounters with creatures where their SR really matters are solo encounters. When you you are of high enough level so that you can encounter more then one SR creature in one encounter your caster level is so high that you beat the SR anyway.
Bopple 07-05-06, 11:53 AM	Assay Resistance and Wraithstrike don't totally eliminate SR and AC. It just makes them much easier to deal with. If you are fighting something with an insane touch AC Wraithstrike isn't going to help much same with something with a very high SR. Theoretically no, but practically yes, they totally eliminate SR and AC. How many monsters have that kind of insane touch AC? I can remember only several with high touch AC(but not insane touch AC). And how powerful they are? In general, powerful monsters are medium sized or larger. And very few medium or larger monsters have insane touch AC, AFAIK(actually, I haven't heard of any, other than monk with a munchkin build) As for very high SR, I am not sure why a sane dm would bring his players against such a hopeless fight(CR = SR -12).
Bopple 07-05-06, 11:58 AM	You're saying: blink is not as strong as Wraithstrike and Assay Resistance because I can dispel it and/or counter it. Hey, you can dispel just about anything! :eek: No, that's totally different. Counterspelling or dispelling is a generic way to deal with ANY spell. In that sense, not a single spell in the world, is broken.
starfire311 07-05-06, 12:01 PM	You're saying: blink is not as strong as Wraithstrike and Assay Resistance because I can dispel it and/or counter it. Hey, you can dispel just about anything! :eek: yes but there are a lot of monsters that already have blink countered before you even cast it... not true for wraith strike or assay resistance... both of these spells are somewhat degenerate IMO, but wraithstrike is far more broken than assay resistance... IMO assay resistance shuold ahve been a 1st or second level spell that just affected your next spell. there is no way to fix wraithstrike, I abused the heck out of wraithstrike in our last campaign, and it really hurt the campaign. We are talking about a 18th level gish being able to full power attack every round, it is just not cool.
Merestil Haye 07-05-06, 12:58 PM	There is a cheap defence against Wraithstrike available in the same book that Wraithstrike is in; I'd suggest you start using it. Dragons especially can benefit from this, but so can anything with high natural armour. I'll leave the finding of the spell as an exercise for the reader.) Assay resistance (to my mind) is slightly more problematic because it allows neither save nor SR, as it targets the caster. However, DMs who rule that Nondetection defeats True Seeing should have no problem ruling that Nondetection defeats Assay Spell Resistance. (I don't but other people do). I modified Wraithstrike in my campaign after the Fighter | Sorcerer gestalt got hold of it. He'd PA his base attack, Arcane Strike a 7th level spell (he was a Sor 15) and with his third attack have a higher attack bonus than most enemies touch AC. (This was before I discovered the defence against wraithstrike I referred to above. I only found out about it after the campaign finished, or the BBEG would have had it as an SLA, just for fun). I ruled Wraithstrike affects the caster's next attack (which opens up some interesting play choices; that character usually waited until 3rd attack to Wraithstrike,, and had to think about how much to power attack quite often).
Warmage-in-Onley 07-05-06, 05:21 PM	I believe that Assay Resistance is well balanced. Yes, it will help a spellcaster to defeat just about any SR that he will likely face. But, and here's the balance part of the story, the spellcaster must either prepare it (as a Wiz) or learn it (as a Sorc) to be able to utilize it at all! Is it a good investment? Yes, but the spellcaster does give up something to have it. Is SR the be-all end-all defense for those creatures that possess it? I don't think so. Certainly your players sometimes consider the possibility of encountering a golem. Many of the same tactics against a golem are effective against high SR creatures (and Assay Resistance doesn't help at all against a golem). And, yes, the game is moving away from SR being a reliable defense - and that's not a bad thing - I think all characters should be able to use their abilities in a big encounter.
Derren S. 07-06-06, 01:24 AM	And, yes, the game is moving away from SR being a reliable defense - and that's not a bad thing - I think all characters should be able to use their abilities in a big encounter. With that argumentation you can also remove AC as it prevents fighters to use the ability to attack with a weapon... :rolleyes:
Zillah 07-06-06, 02:30 AM	They do the absolutely same thing and there is no Lower Resistance in Spell Compendium. It seems Spell Vulnerability replaces Lower Resistance. BTW, it is not so good because it takes 1 full round to cast. And it no longer penalizes Fort-save. there is a penalty = to the caster level for both spells. planar handbook is 3.5. i believe so is dracinomicon. so the smart thing to do is take the lower. the rule about stating spells, is that you state which version of the spell. so when i say "i cast spell vulernability" and the DM says WTF... i whip out my planar handbook and show it. or just say "from the planar handbook" its seriously getting old that everything is either "broken" or abused. get over it. wraithstrike IS NOT mean for melee for a sorc. touch attacks ignore all the stuff that wraithstrike does. thats why wraithstrike ITEMS are creatable. and anyone who says "broke" is an idiot. spell vulnerability is NOT broken. neither is assay. they made the spells for a reason. to make the game FUN. if you don't like the spell, go cry to your mom. there is a spell in LOM(lords of madness) called permable form. is that broken? immidiate action to go incorpereal for one round. there is a spell called "etheralness swift" and its a level 5. swift action. one round. is that broke too? give me a break! grow up. learn to deal with stuff like that. this stuff is for D&D on "hard mode" and if you can't do hard mode then don't say broken. cause its not. i would also like to add that if a player can have wraithstrike or assay, then the NPC bad guys CAN TOO!!! so if the bad guys have the same and more then you, then its still fair.
Bopple 07-06-06, 07:01 AM	there is a penalty = to the caster level for both spells. planar handbook is 3.5. i believe so is dracinomicon. so the smart thing to do is take the lower. the rule about stating spells, is that you state which version of the spell. so when i say "i cast spell vulernability" and the DM says WTF... i whip out my planar handbook and show it. or just say "from the planar handbook" Check Spell Compendium which contains the newest spell informations, before saying anything about Spell Vulnerability. its seriously getting old that everything is either "broken" or abused. get over it. wraithstrike IS NOT mean for melee for a sorc. touch attacks ignore all the stuff that wraithstrike does. thats why wraithstrike ITEMS are creatable. and anyone who says "broke" is an idiot. Huh. I wonder how one can be at once so sure and yet so lost. Is that what you really believe? spell vulnerability is NOT broken. None said so. Actually, it's a totally useless spell, now. neither is assay. Before saying that to me, you'd better read my first reply in this thread. they made the spells for a reason. to make the game FUN. if you don't like the spell, go cry to your mom. You'd better learn some etiquette from your mom. And your opinion of FUN. Or are you claiming you are one of them? there is a spell in LOM(lords of madness) called permable form. is that broken? immidiate action to go incorpereal for one round. there is a spell called "etheralness swift" and its a level 5. swift action. one round. is that broke too? give me a break! grow up. learn to deal with stuff like that. this stuff is for D&D on "hard mode" and if you can't do hard mode then don't say broken. cause its not. I don't know the details of those spells, and don't know if they are broken or not. But I am quite curious where you got the idea of 'hard mode' And I wonder why they downgraded many spells(most of them were actually weaker than Wraithstrike or Assay Resistance) in Spell Compendium, if that's the way of 'hard mode'. And again, where is your manner? i would also like to add that if a player can have wraithstrike or assay, then the NPC bad guys CAN TOO!!! so if the bad guys have the same and more then you, then its still fair. Do you seriously think fairness = balance? Well, no wonder you resort to insults rather than to logical reasoning.
starfire311 07-06-06, 09:48 AM	there is a penalty = to the caster level for both spells. planar handbook is 3.5. i believe so is dracinomicon. so the smart thing to do is take the lower. the rule about stating spells, is that you state which version of the spell. so when i say "i cast spell vulernability" and the DM says WTF... i whip out my planar handbook and show it. or just say "from the planar handbook" its seriously getting old that everything is either "broken" or abused. get over it. wraithstrike IS NOT mean for melee for a sorc. touch attacks ignore all the stuff that wraithstrike does. thats why wraithstrike ITEMS are creatable. and anyone who says "broke" is an idiot. spell vulnerability is NOT broken. neither is assay. they made the spells for a reason. to make the game FUN. if you don't like the spell, go cry to your mom. there is a spell in LOM(lords of madness) called permable form. is that broken? immidiate action to go incorpereal for one round. there is a spell called "etheralness swift" and its a level 5. swift action. one round. is that broke too? give me a break! grow up. learn to deal with stuff like that. this stuff is for D&D on "hard mode" and if you can't do hard mode then don't say broken. cause its not. i would also like to add that if a player can have wraithstrike or assay, then the NPC bad guys CAN TOO!!! so if the bad guys have the same and more then you, then its still fair. going ethereal for 1 round is not too good, but my Gish dealing over 500 points in a round to Adi Marchus(sp?) is too good Let's see, BAB +18, +5 Keen, Evil outside Bane, Viscous Great Sword, Power Attack, Arcane Strike sacing 7th level spell, Haste, wraithstrike == bad times for BBEG. Str of 26 WF, WS, MWM, Prayer, some random +1 att from samurai/kensai AB = 18+7+8+3+1+1+7+1-10(PA)= 36/36/31/26/21 VS Touch AC 32 Damage = 2D6+2D6+2D6+7D4+45 17+/x2 That is an average expected damage of 361/round. I go lucky one round and had 2 crits pushing my damage over 500... The BBEG for a game that ran almost 2 years was quite disappointing.
Zillah 07-06-06, 01:35 PM	500 damage to the BBEG is normal damage in 1 round in the campaign im in. its hard. i mean as a sorcerer with less then 100 hp i have to do crazy **** to stack up damage. the spell vulnerability in compendium sucks. declare which book you are using. DM is fine with that. so if everyone else. its just old when everything is broken. scintillating scales was it? nat armor to deflection? thats a way to get over wraithstrike. the balance is in the game. just cause everyone don't see it don't mean its not there.
starfire311 07-06-06, 02:13 PM	500 damage to the BBEG is normal damage in 1 round in the campaign im in. its hard. i mean as a sorcerer with less then 100 hp i have to do crazy **** to stack up damage. the spell vulnerability in compendium sucks. declare which book you are using. DM is fine with that. so if everyone else. its just old when everything is broken. scintillating scales was it? nat armor to deflection? thats a way to get over wraithstrike. the balance is in the game. just cause everyone don't see it don't mean its not there. WTH are you fighting against that as a party you are averaging 2000 points of damae a round, and is posing any kind of a challenge. Yes you said 500 points is normal so assuming 4 characters 500x4 equals 2000 against the BBEG... Adi Marchus only had like 1000 HP, I did over 800 points of damage in 2 rounds, while the wizard and cleric sat back to counter any spells he tried to cast, and the Samurai, invisible blade, and Halfling outrider managed to scratch together the other 200 points.
Zillah 07-06-06, 04:39 PM	arg...1 full round. meaning 4-5 people doing about 100 a piece. we fight aguemented monsters by the DM. teplates are added, HP is upped past normal, other stuff. its fun.
starfire311 07-06-06, 05:28 PM	arg...1 full round. meaning 4-5 people doing about 100 a piece. we fight aguemented monsters by the DM. teplates are added, HP is upped past normal, other stuff. its fun. ok that makes a bit more sense, I thought you were commenting in response to how I said my 1 character did over 500 damage in 1 round, and you were saying that it was normal in your games for that to happen.... my bad. Stupid Wraithstrike... really ruined the game IMO... maybe the DM should have buffed up the encounter, but everything we had read was that the end fight in shackled city was a killer so he left it as is, including the errata.
Sancus 07-06-06, 07:29 PM	Er you can't claim this spell uses no action. A swift action IS an action, and usin g this means you can't cast a quickened spell. That is a significant opportunity cost, I can't count the number of times I've killed people with my swift action.
Warmage-in-Onley 07-06-06, 10:51 PM	With that argumentation you can also remove AC as it prevents fighters to use the ability to attack with a weapon... :rolleyes: Perhaps I overstated my position (consider it an observation and an opinion rather than an argument). I believe Assay Resistance is a balanced counter to SR, I'm not arguing about removing AC (there are plenty of AC affecting spells). Perhaps you'd be more comfortable with Assay Resistance being the equivalent to True Strike in effect. :rolleyes: