Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Angelflesh 01-17-07, 11:49 PM	It's slipping my mind, but is there a feat or something out there that will allow me to add a new spell to my spells known? I'm trying to get a hold of the Atonement spell for a divine caster other than Cleric or Druid. Is it reasonable to use a Wish spell to permanently add a spell to my list of spells known?
Eikre 01-18-07, 12:11 AM	It's slipping my mind, but is there a feat or something out there that will allow me to add a new spell to my spells known? I'm trying to get a hold of the Atonement spell for a divine caster other than Cleric or Druid. Is it reasonable to use a Wish spell to permanently add a spell to my list of spells known? With a wish spell? No. Permanent additions to a spell list aren't one of the functions outlined in the spell's text, as I'm sure you're aware, and I doubt a good DM would allow it in most cases- although it's valid to try, Wish being the spell that it is. I think it's far more reasonable to ask a Cleric of your character's faith to cast Miracle for you. Miracle is a direct petition to one's patron god; Ideally, you'd be asking for the power to administer Atonements to men of the good faith. It's not like you'd be propped up by boxed mechanics, though. If you're handing out Atonement spells without making sure people are actually atoning, first, you should fully expect to have the power taken away. My two cents. You mention that you want it added to a Divine caster's spell list, anyway. Which divine caster with the slots to cast Atonement doesn't actually have the spell?
Angelflesh 01-18-07, 12:51 AM	Divine Caster swithout acces to Atonement Blighter Divine Crusader (unless Atonement is available from a domain spell list, i just don't recall at the moment.) Nentyar Hunter Runescarred Berserker Actually, this doesn't matter, the point is, there are Divine casters out there without the Atonement spell. You outright denied using a Wish spell to add a spell to your spells known list. Think about it like this: I browsed my copy of Complete Arcane and came to this conclusion. I can use a Wish spell to add a permanent +1 bonus to an ability score, would you allow a Feat to do the same? I can use the "Extra Spell" feat to any spell to my spells known list that is at least one level lower than my highest level known, but you wouldn't allow a use of Wish to do the same?
runestar 01-18-07, 01:02 AM	I can use a Wish spell to add a permanent +1 bonus to an ability score, would you allow a Feat to do the same? Well, it is well in line with the power of an epic feat...:)
Fireclave 01-18-07, 01:29 AM	Having wish grant an extra spell known is potentially MUCH more unbalancing than the inherent bonuses you can get from the wish spell. If you were to allow one class to get a spell not on their list, what's to stop another class from doing the same? Imagine wizards with Heal, bards with Fireball, and Sorcerers with everything under the sun once you get into high epic. Then what's to stop someone for wishing for other feats? Also note that the wish spell has limits, and anything outside those limits is subject to (strict) DM approval. And as for stat increases, Wish only allows to get a maximum of a +5 inherit bonus to any stat, and the increase must be done all at once. So if you want a +2 to a stat, you can't make a wish now and another next week. You have to pay all 10k xp at the same time. However, it would be perfectly legal to wish for a staff of attonement (and pay the appropriate amount of xp). Then all you would need to do would be to devote some ranks into UMD.
Seeker95 01-18-07, 09:58 AM	You are approaching this backwards. Some things are done for the story-line. Look for an exception to the rules, not a way around them. You have a divine caster who does not have atonement. For campaign purposes, your divine caster needs atonement. If you are the player, ask your DM for an exception. (I assume you have a deity.) If you are the DM, and this is necessary, then allow it. Swap out atonement for an existing spell on the caster's list. Keep it an even / legitimate swap.
Angelflesh 01-18-07, 05:30 PM	I am the DM. I just don't wanna slap a spell on a list just because i am the DM. I want it to be reasonable, even though the players won't know anyway. I would use the "Extra Spell" feat, i just don't want to burn a feat if i don't have to quite yet.
Seeker95 01-18-07, 06:45 PM	Reasonable is that this particular NPC, as an agent of deity X, has access to atonement.