Attempting to Sanctify Orcus :) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Attempting to Sanctify Orcus :) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LaserBear
02-20-07, 01:53 AM One of the campaigns I'm playing in is the Rappan Athuk dungeon and the DM intends for it to eventually lead to an extra planar campaign. Right now I am expecting to encounter Orcus either at the end of the dungeon or shortly after we go extra planar. Upon encountering Orcus my plan is to use Sanctify the Wicked on him, since I find the idea of Orcus, The Demon Prince of Undead, being converted to a champion of good extremely humorous.

However since he is a demon prince, CR 28 (according to BoVD), I will need a method of reducing his will save if I am to have any decent chance of success. I intend to use Lower SR from the Draconomicon to deal with his rather significant SR, but I have yet to find any spell that temporarily lowers one's saves sufficiently enough to make any difference.

Our primary casters are a Sorcerer who emphasizes illusions, an Elocater, and me (the Radiant Bandaid of Pelor). So if anyone could give me some suggestions for spells that reduce someone elses saves temporarly or methods to increase your own DCs I would be very grateful (Note: by the time we face Orcus we will most likely be epic, & will already have basic equipment *basic for epic characters* such as Periapts of Wisdom +x; also, I don't intend to take spell focus solely for this encounter since I use necromancy spells fairly infrequently, so no need to mention those).

Thank you in advance; if no viable solution is produced I'll just need to stock up on scrolls of Sanctify the Wicked (assuming the DM would allow scolls of it, which I personally doubt) and hope Orcus rolls a 1 on a will save before we can kill him.
epifreak
02-20-07, 02:42 AM Isn't there a spell called quillfire (or something like that) that starts dropping saves. It's untyped too, so others stack.
runestar
02-20-07, 02:56 AM I thought Sanctify the Wicked does not apply to outsiders with the evil subtype...?:confused:
Ainamacar
02-20-07, 03:05 AM Limited Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/limitedWish.htm) is your friend. A penalty of -7 to his next save is solid.

Harmonic Chorus is a Bard spell from Spell Compendium that improves the DC and caster level of someone else's spells by 2.

Spell Enhancer (also from the SC) is a Sor/Wizspells that increases the save of the next spell you cast by 1.
Seeker95
02-20-07, 09:25 AM He can't get no...
sanctification!
Lafing Cat
02-20-07, 09:59 AM There's the obviously duh "Heighten it"

Twin Spell and Repeat Spell will likely get you more mileage than a simple heighten.

Look into Power Components? Several of them have effects of boosting DC.
(I forget which book they're in, but Meta Magic Componants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/metamagicComponents.htm) from the SRD are similar.)
LaserBear
02-20-07, 10:55 AM There's the obviously duh "Heighten it"

Twin Spell and Repeat Spell will likely get you more mileage than a simple heighten.

The only real issue there is that it is a ninth level spell normally, so I would have to sacrifice an epic level spell slot to do that, which I have a bit of trepidation about doing. I don't believe there is a rod of metamagic for heighten, twin spell, or repeat spell, and from reading the Heighten Spell feat desctription I doubt Divine metamagic could be used for it. Also, from the heighten spell feat descriptor in the PHB there is a cap of a ninth level spell slot, this could be gm ruled that since the PHB deals minimally with epic rules that heighten could go to epic spell slots, but I'll have to talk to my GM about it.

If nothing else seems to have a chance of success I'll definately consider taking the feats needed for divine metamagic twin and repeat spell (all 4 of the feats :( ).

Thanks for the Power Components idea, I'll be sure to look them up.

I thought Sanctify the Wicked does not apply to outsiders with the evil subtype...?

I think that I will have to talk to my GM about it, since the spell does mention tearing the soul from the creatures body, which is just a little bit difficult to do to an outsider (who's soul and body are one); but under the sanctified creature template (p186-187 BoED) it does have rules for devils and demons that are sanctified.

Isn't there a spell called quillfire (or something like that) that starts dropping saves. It's untyped too, so others stack.

It's called Quill Blast (p164 Spell Compendium); though we have no druids in the party, we do have rogue (who hopefully has UMD) so it could help tremendously.

Limited Wish is your friend. A penalty of -7 to his next save is solid.

Indeed it is, and we just happen to have an unused ring of 3 wishes that we recently picked up in the dungeon. Not knowing that use is what I get for not playing arcane casters very much.

Thank you all for the responses, Orcus won't know why he wants to hug bunnies rather than feast on their inards now :D .
Lafing Cat
02-20-07, 11:52 AM As for heightening past 9th level, that requires the Epic feat "Epic Heighten Spell" which lets you heighten a spell arbitrarily high. Works extraordinarily well with Divine Metamagic if your GM lets nightsticks stack. +4 stacking bonus the the DC for each, what is it, 3600 for a nightstick?

drop 36k for +40 to the DC once per day. (or +20 twice per day)
runestar
02-20-07, 11:58 AM Couldn't you just knock him unconscious and then cast said spell on him? I thought unconscious beings were automatically treated as willing...?:P
Lafing Cat
02-20-07, 12:03 PM Couldn't you just knock him unconscious and then cast said spell on him? I thought unconscious beings were automatically treated as willing...?:P
An unconscious target does not automatically forgo or fail a saving throw. It just counts as "willing" for any spell that specifies "Willing targets only" A spell has to *also* be labeled as "Harmless" for a willing target to get no saving throw.

Edit: see the topic on "Willing = no save" for further debate of this. Seems to be coming up a lot lately.
LaserBear
02-20-07, 12:20 PM Couldn't you just knock him unconscious and then cast said spell on him? I thought unconscious beings were automatically treated as willing...?:P

He more than likely has several contingent spells already based upon that potential outcome of a fight; also it is fairly difficult to get someone between 0 and -10 without them getting back up or dieing (or silly rogues hopping in and slaying them before you can cast StW, which the rogue in my party would do :weep: ).

(Then there is also what Lafing Cat posted about this)

Personally, I would like for our rogue to try to bluff Orcus into believing that the only way for him to purchase what our kobold sorcerer is selling is for me to cast a spell on him first (our kobold can get a perform(marketing) check of over 70). Then use a Greater Rod of Metamagic (Quicken) and cast from behind Orcus so he can't use spellcraft to determine which spell I am casting. The only problem that may exist for this plan is that I do not belive our rogue has maxed out bluff, nor does he have any equipment to help him bluff.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LaserBear 02-20-07, 01:53 AM	One of the campaigns I'm playing in is the Rappan Athuk dungeon and the DM intends for it to eventually lead to an extra planar campaign. Right now I am expecting to encounter Orcus either at the end of the dungeon or shortly after we go extra planar. Upon encountering Orcus my plan is to use Sanctify the Wicked on him, since I find the idea of Orcus, The Demon Prince of Undead, being converted to a champion of good extremely humorous. However since he is a demon prince, CR 28 (according to BoVD), I will need a method of reducing his will save if I am to have any decent chance of success. I intend to use Lower SR from the Draconomicon to deal with his rather significant SR, but I have yet to find any spell that temporarily lowers one's saves sufficiently enough to make any difference. Our primary casters are a Sorcerer who emphasizes illusions, an Elocater, and me (the Radiant Bandaid of Pelor). So if anyone could give me some suggestions for spells that reduce someone elses saves temporarly or methods to increase your own DCs I would be very grateful (Note: by the time we face Orcus we will most likely be epic, & will already have basic equipment basic for epic characters such as Periapts of Wisdom +x; also, I don't intend to take spell focus solely for this encounter since I use necromancy spells fairly infrequently, so no need to mention those). Thank you in advance; if no viable solution is produced I'll just need to stock up on scrolls of Sanctify the Wicked (assuming the DM would allow scolls of it, which I personally doubt) and hope Orcus rolls a 1 on a will save before we can kill him.
epifreak 02-20-07, 02:42 AM	Isn't there a spell called quillfire (or something like that) that starts dropping saves. It's untyped too, so others stack.
runestar 02-20-07, 02:56 AM	I thought Sanctify the Wicked does not apply to outsiders with the evil subtype...?:confused:
Ainamacar 02-20-07, 03:05 AM	Limited Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/limitedWish.htm) is your friend. A penalty of -7 to his next save is solid. Harmonic Chorus is a Bard spell from Spell Compendium that improves the DC and caster level of someone else's spells by 2. Spell Enhancer (also from the SC) is a Sor/Wizspells that increases the save of the next spell you cast by 1.
Seeker95 02-20-07, 09:25 AM	He can't get no... sanctification!
Lafing Cat 02-20-07, 09:59 AM	There's the obviously duh "Heighten it" Twin Spell and Repeat Spell will likely get you more mileage than a simple heighten. Look into Power Components? Several of them have effects of boosting DC. (I forget which book they're in, but Meta Magic Componants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/metamagicComponents.htm) from the SRD are similar.)
LaserBear 02-20-07, 10:55 AM	There's the obviously duh "Heighten it" Twin Spell and Repeat Spell will likely get you more mileage than a simple heighten. The only real issue there is that it is a ninth level spell normally, so I would have to sacrifice an epic level spell slot to do that, which I have a bit of trepidation about doing. I don't believe there is a rod of metamagic for heighten, twin spell, or repeat spell, and from reading the Heighten Spell feat desctription I doubt Divine metamagic could be used for it. Also, from the heighten spell feat descriptor in the PHB there is a cap of a ninth level spell slot, this could be gm ruled that since the PHB deals minimally with epic rules that heighten could go to epic spell slots, but I'll have to talk to my GM about it. If nothing else seems to have a chance of success I'll definately consider taking the feats needed for divine metamagic twin and repeat spell (all 4 of the feats :( ). Thanks for the Power Components idea, I'll be sure to look them up. I thought Sanctify the Wicked does not apply to outsiders with the evil subtype...? I think that I will have to talk to my GM about it, since the spell does mention tearing the soul from the creatures body, which is just a little bit difficult to do to an outsider (who's soul and body are one); but under the sanctified creature template (p186-187 BoED) it does have rules for devils and demons that are sanctified. Isn't there a spell called quillfire (or something like that) that starts dropping saves. It's untyped too, so others stack. It's called Quill Blast (p164 Spell Compendium); though we have no druids in the party, we do have rogue (who hopefully has UMD) so it could help tremendously. Limited Wish is your friend. A penalty of -7 to his next save is solid. Indeed it is, and we just happen to have an unused ring of 3 wishes that we recently picked up in the dungeon. Not knowing that use is what I get for not playing arcane casters very much. Thank you all for the responses, Orcus won't know why he wants to hug bunnies rather than feast on their inards now :D .
Lafing Cat 02-20-07, 11:52 AM	As for heightening past 9th level, that requires the Epic feat "Epic Heighten Spell" which lets you heighten a spell arbitrarily high. Works extraordinarily well with Divine Metamagic if your GM lets nightsticks stack. +4 stacking bonus the the DC for each, what is it, 3600 for a nightstick? drop 36k for +40 to the DC once per day. (or +20 twice per day)
runestar 02-20-07, 11:58 AM	Couldn't you just knock him unconscious and then cast said spell on him? I thought unconscious beings were automatically treated as willing...?:P
Lafing Cat 02-20-07, 12:03 PM	Couldn't you just knock him unconscious and then cast said spell on him? I thought unconscious beings were automatically treated as willing...?:P An unconscious target does not automatically forgo or fail a saving throw. It just counts as "willing" for any spell that specifies "Willing targets only" A spell has to also be labeled as "Harmless" for a willing target to get no saving throw. Edit: see the topic on "Willing = no save" for further debate of this. Seems to be coming up a lot lately.
LaserBear 02-20-07, 12:20 PM	Couldn't you just knock him unconscious and then cast said spell on him? I thought unconscious beings were automatically treated as willing...?:P He more than likely has several contingent spells already based upon that potential outcome of a fight; also it is fairly difficult to get someone between 0 and -10 without them getting back up or dieing (or silly rogues hopping in and slaying them before you can cast StW, which the rogue in my party would do :weep: ). (Then there is also what Lafing Cat posted about this) Personally, I would like for our rogue to try to bluff Orcus into believing that the only way for him to purchase what our kobold sorcerer is selling is for me to cast a spell on him first (our kobold can get a perform(marketing) check of over 70). Then use a Greater Rod of Metamagic (Quicken) and cast from behind Orcus so he can't use spellcraft to determine which spell I am casting. The only problem that may exist for this plan is that I do not belive our rogue has maxed out bluff, nor does he have any equipment to help him bluff.