Augment Healing feat (Complete Divine) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Augment Healing feat (Complete Divine) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Methos of Aundair
10-28-04, 06:01 PM One of my players in my Eberron campaign has asked if he can take this feat and I am unsure as to how balanced it is. Note that I allow only the core books (PHB, DMG, MM, and EPHB) and anything else must go through me first.

After reading the AH feat it appears to be fine but I prefer hearing from those who have actual game experience with it. I really prefer any experiences from DM’s with players who have this feat.

I’m tempted to allow it just so we can playtest it but I still wish to hear peoples’ experiences. In the past I have seen single feats or spells cause the balance of the game to be thrown way off kilter so I hate to allow something I’ve never used without first hearing from others who have seen it during play. Plus the simple fact it helps the party heal doesn’t seem unbalancing but I still wish to ask.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Yes I realize this is a weird thread to start, but at least it's not another "how does it work with vigor" thread. :D
Seeker95
10-28-04, 06:43 PM I don't find it unbalanced. With all the other things a cleric could take (and abuse) this one lets the cleric patch folks up better. he still has to get into position to heal, and he still has to survive the battle that creates the need for healing in the first place. Plus it requires the cleric to have already burned a feat in Spell Focus (healing). Two feats for a rather benign (meaning non-offensive) effect --> except against undead! :D
Methos of Aundair
10-28-04, 07:00 PM Plus it requires the cleric to have already burned a feat in Spell Focus (healing). Two feats for a rather benign (meaning non-offensive) effect --> except against undead! :D

Just double checked the feat prereqs and SF (Healing) is not one of them. The only prereq is 4 ranks in Heal.
Cymraegmorgan
10-28-04, 07:10 PM It is not unbalanced. It is only an additional 2 points of healing per spell level, not per character level. I have allowed it. No problems.
Methos of Aundair
10-28-04, 07:29 PM At the lower levels (such as 1st) this feat doesn’t seem bad at all. Such as CLW modified with this feat would grant 1d8+3. That’s not bad and in fact very useful. But what about a CCW at 7th level (minimum), it would be at 4d8+15. Though this doesn’t really sound bad at all (even to me) it does cause a cure spell of a lower level to be as effective as a cure spell one level higher.

Using a 7th level Cleric we have:

(With the Augment Healing feat)
CCW 4d8+15 for an average of 33 points
CSW 3d8+13 for an average of 26.5 points
CMW 2d8+11 for an average of 20 points
CLW 1d8+7 for an average of 11.5 points

(Without the Augment Healing feat)
CCW 4d8+7 for an average of 25 points
CSW 3d8+7 for an average of 20.5 points
CMW 2d8+7 for an average of 16 points
CLW 1d8+5 for an average of 9.5 points

With an augmented CMW it heals ½ point less than an un-augmented CsW. This would mean with the AH feat you could cast a 2nd level spell that would does nearly as much as that of a 3rd level spell. That does seem a bit much to me.

Maxed out caster level wise a CMW spell at 10th level would heal 2d8+14 points, or an average of 23 points. A un-augmented CSW does 3d8+10, or an average of 23.5 points which is .5 over that of an augmented spell one level lower. This still seems a bit much.

What about at 20th level?

(With the Augment Healing feat)
CCW 4d8+28 for an average of 46 points
CSW 3d8+21 for an average of 34.5 points
CMW 2d8+14 for an average of 23 points
CLW 1d8+7 for an average of 11.5 points

(Without the Augment Healing feat)
CCW 4d8+20 for an average of 38 points
CSW 3d8+15 for an average of 28.5 points
CMW 2d8+10 for an average of 19 points
CLW 1d8+5 for an average of 9.5 points

At 20th level the benefits begin to spread out and the AH feat basically just raises your average points healed rather than make the spell effectively one level higher. But that doesn’t happen until much higher levels than what the campaign is currently at.

So my question is does this make the feat a bit unbalancing? Does being able to cast a spell as if it were one level lower make it unbalanced? And does the fact that it is a healing spell make these benefits less enough that balance is unaffected?
Methos of Aundair
10-28-04, 07:30 PM It is not unbalanced. It is only an additional 2 points of healing per spell level, not per character level. I have allowed it. No problems.

I understand it is per spell level rather than character level but I'm still curious. One thing I do wish to ask you is how high of a level did your players get? My reason is did it seem to be any different as the players got higher level? :)
Talchar
10-28-04, 09:15 PM I would not have an issue with this feat. The healing increase is not that big of deal, and gives the mid level 3-5th level healing spells a little more pep. With a small party, the lone cleric needs all the help he can get. Fighters have a lot of hit points, and sometimes the cleric wants to cast something other then cure spells.

That said, I think the feats you should be scared of is Sacred Healing (just say no), Domain Spontaneity (disgusting in the hands of a Pelor Cleric.)
DM Zoc
10-28-04, 10:45 PM One thing to be aware of is how this works with researched spells. There is a very common house ruling (not a house rule, as the topic is intended to be DM-governed) that says you can research a spell which is the same as an existing spell that has a metamagic feat applied, and it is of a level equal to the modified level of the original spell after the feat has been applied. (For example, if Joe the sorcerer wants to be able to cast a quickened Fireball, he can research it as a 7th-level spell, though it would only deal a maximum of 10d6 damage.)

With the Augment Healing feat, a Reach Cure Minor Wounds would heal 5 hit points, even though the Reach spell applied to Cure Minor Wounds would only heal 1. It's just something to keep in mind.
Methos of Aundair
10-28-04, 11:09 PM One thing to be aware of is how this works with researched spells. There is a very common house ruling (not a house rule, as the topic is intended to be DM-governed) that says you can research a spell which is the same as an existing spell that has a metamagic feat applied, and it is of a level equal to the modified level of the original spell after the feat has been applied. (For example, if Joe the sorcerer wants to be able to cast a quickened Fireball, he can research it as a 7th-level spell, though it would only deal a maximum of 10d6 damage.)

With the Augment Healing feat, a Reach Cure Minor Wounds would heal 5 hit points, even though the Reach spell applied to Cure Minor Wounds would only heal 1. It's just something to keep in mind.

I'm a little confused on your whole statement. How does a reach spell reflect a researched spell? Or was that a typo? Also note that the Augment Healing feat is a general feat and not a metamagic feat. This of course means it works with all cure spells and you do not have to state you are memorizing it that way nor does it require you to memorize it at a higher level.

Of course I am tired and may just be confused as to your meaning. I'll look at it again tomorrow.
DM Zoc
10-29-04, 12:45 AM Sorry about that; I was in a hurry, and it might not have come across well. I should have reformatted into better paragraphs, at least. I'll try again.

Pretend that someone wants to research a spell. The rule of thumb is that a metamagicked spell takes up the same level as the spell with the metamagic on it.

You can research a spell called Maximized Cure Moderate Wounds, which would heal (16 + caster level) damage and be a fifth-level spell. If you have the Augment Healing feat, it would heal (16 + caster level + (2*spell level) = 26 + caster level) damage.

If someone knows the Maximize Spell metamagic feat, that person can use a fifth-level spell slot to prepare a maximized Cure Moderate Wounds to heal (16 + caster level) damage. If that person has Augment Healing, then it would heal (16 + caster level + (2*spell level) = 20 + caster level) damage.
Someone
10-29-04, 02:24 AM I have an NPC with it in my campaign, and it doesn't seem to be unbalanced. Compared to feats like spell focus (which can mean a lot more effect sometimes), AH (which means a little more effect all the time) seems fine.

Though its fun to dump out over 250 hp/ person with an Augmented Mass Heal combined with Divine Spell Power...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Methos of Aundair 10-28-04, 06:01 PM	One of my players in my Eberron campaign has asked if he can take this feat and I am unsure as to how balanced it is. Note that I allow only the core books (PHB, DMG, MM, and EPHB) and anything else must go through me first. After reading the AH feat it appears to be fine but I prefer hearing from those who have actual game experience with it. I really prefer any experiences from DM’s with players who have this feat. I’m tempted to allow it just so we can playtest it but I still wish to hear peoples’ experiences. In the past I have seen single feats or spells cause the balance of the game to be thrown way off kilter so I hate to allow something I’ve never used without first hearing from others who have seen it during play. Plus the simple fact it helps the party heal doesn’t seem unbalancing but I still wish to ask. Thanks for any suggestions. Yes I realize this is a weird thread to start, but at least it's not another "how does it work with vigor" thread. :D
Seeker95 10-28-04, 06:43 PM	I don't find it unbalanced. With all the other things a cleric could take (and abuse) this one lets the cleric patch folks up better. he still has to get into position to heal, and he still has to survive the battle that creates the need for healing in the first place. Plus it requires the cleric to have already burned a feat in Spell Focus (healing). Two feats for a rather benign (meaning non-offensive) effect --> except against undead! :D
Methos of Aundair 10-28-04, 07:00 PM	Plus it requires the cleric to have already burned a feat in Spell Focus (healing). Two feats for a rather benign (meaning non-offensive) effect --> except against undead! :D Just double checked the feat prereqs and SF (Healing) is not one of them. The only prereq is 4 ranks in Heal.
Cymraegmorgan 10-28-04, 07:10 PM	It is not unbalanced. It is only an additional 2 points of healing per spell level, not per character level. I have allowed it. No problems.
Methos of Aundair 10-28-04, 07:29 PM	At the lower levels (such as 1st) this feat doesn’t seem bad at all. Such as CLW modified with this feat would grant 1d8+3. That’s not bad and in fact very useful. But what about a CCW at 7th level (minimum), it would be at 4d8+15. Though this doesn’t really sound bad at all (even to me) it does cause a cure spell of a lower level to be as effective as a cure spell one level higher. Using a 7th level Cleric we have: (With the Augment Healing feat) CCW 4d8+15 for an average of 33 points CSW 3d8+13 for an average of 26.5 points CMW 2d8+11 for an average of 20 points CLW 1d8+7 for an average of 11.5 points (Without the Augment Healing feat) CCW 4d8+7 for an average of 25 points CSW 3d8+7 for an average of 20.5 points CMW 2d8+7 for an average of 16 points CLW 1d8+5 for an average of 9.5 points With an augmented CMW it heals ½ point less than an un-augmented CsW. This would mean with the AH feat you could cast a 2nd level spell that would does nearly as much as that of a 3rd level spell. That does seem a bit much to me. Maxed out caster level wise a CMW spell at 10th level would heal 2d8+14 points, or an average of 23 points. A un-augmented CSW does 3d8+10, or an average of 23.5 points which is .5 over that of an augmented spell one level lower. This still seems a bit much. What about at 20th level? (With the Augment Healing feat) CCW 4d8+28 for an average of 46 points CSW 3d8+21 for an average of 34.5 points CMW 2d8+14 for an average of 23 points CLW 1d8+7 for an average of 11.5 points (Without the Augment Healing feat) CCW 4d8+20 for an average of 38 points CSW 3d8+15 for an average of 28.5 points CMW 2d8+10 for an average of 19 points CLW 1d8+5 for an average of 9.5 points At 20th level the benefits begin to spread out and the AH feat basically just raises your average points healed rather than make the spell effectively one level higher. But that doesn’t happen until much higher levels than what the campaign is currently at. So my question is does this make the feat a bit unbalancing? Does being able to cast a spell as if it were one level lower make it unbalanced? And does the fact that it is a healing spell make these benefits less enough that balance is unaffected?
Methos of Aundair 10-28-04, 07:30 PM	It is not unbalanced. It is only an additional 2 points of healing per spell level, not per character level. I have allowed it. No problems. I understand it is per spell level rather than character level but I'm still curious. One thing I do wish to ask you is how high of a level did your players get? My reason is did it seem to be any different as the players got higher level? :)
Talchar 10-28-04, 09:15 PM	I would not have an issue with this feat. The healing increase is not that big of deal, and gives the mid level 3-5th level healing spells a little more pep. With a small party, the lone cleric needs all the help he can get. Fighters have a lot of hit points, and sometimes the cleric wants to cast something other then cure spells. That said, I think the feats you should be scared of is Sacred Healing (just say no), Domain Spontaneity (disgusting in the hands of a Pelor Cleric.)
DM Zoc 10-28-04, 10:45 PM	One thing to be aware of is how this works with researched spells. There is a very common house ruling (not a house rule, as the topic is intended to be DM-governed) that says you can research a spell which is the same as an existing spell that has a metamagic feat applied, and it is of a level equal to the modified level of the original spell after the feat has been applied. (For example, if Joe the sorcerer wants to be able to cast a quickened Fireball, he can research it as a 7th-level spell, though it would only deal a maximum of 10d6 damage.) With the Augment Healing feat, a Reach Cure Minor Wounds would heal 5 hit points, even though the Reach spell applied to Cure Minor Wounds would only heal 1. It's just something to keep in mind.
Methos of Aundair 10-28-04, 11:09 PM	One thing to be aware of is how this works with researched spells. There is a very common house ruling (not a house rule, as the topic is intended to be DM-governed) that says you can research a spell which is the same as an existing spell that has a metamagic feat applied, and it is of a level equal to the modified level of the original spell after the feat has been applied. (For example, if Joe the sorcerer wants to be able to cast a quickened Fireball, he can research it as a 7th-level spell, though it would only deal a maximum of 10d6 damage.) With the Augment Healing feat, a Reach Cure Minor Wounds would heal 5 hit points, even though the Reach spell applied to Cure Minor Wounds would only heal 1. It's just something to keep in mind. I'm a little confused on your whole statement. How does a reach spell reflect a researched spell? Or was that a typo? Also note that the Augment Healing feat is a general feat and not a metamagic feat. This of course means it works with all cure spells and you do not have to state you are memorizing it that way nor does it require you to memorize it at a higher level. Of course I am tired and may just be confused as to your meaning. I'll look at it again tomorrow.
DM Zoc 10-29-04, 12:45 AM	Sorry about that; I was in a hurry, and it might not have come across well. I should have reformatted into better paragraphs, at least. I'll try again. Pretend that someone wants to research a spell. The rule of thumb is that a metamagicked spell takes up the same level as the spell with the metamagic on it. You can research a spell called Maximized Cure Moderate Wounds, which would heal (16 + caster level) damage and be a fifth-level spell. If you have the Augment Healing feat, it would heal (16 + caster level + (2spell level) = 26 + caster level) damage. If someone knows the Maximize Spell metamagic feat, that person can use a fifth-level spell slot to prepare a maximized Cure Moderate Wounds to heal (16 + caster level) damage. If that person has Augment Healing, then it would heal (16 + caster level + (2spell level) = 20 + caster level) damage.
Someone 10-29-04, 02:24 AM	I have an NPC with it in my campaign, and it doesn't seem to be unbalanced. Compared to feats like spell focus (which can mean a lot more effect sometimes), AH (which means a little more effect all the time) seems fine. Though its fun to dump out over 250 hp/ person with an Augmented Mass Heal combined with Divine Spell Power...