Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jager Mage 10-16-07, 02:37 PM	Question: The healer class from Miniatures gets to add it's CHA modifier to all conjuration healing spells that they cast. Augment healing adds 2 points per spell level to all conjuration healing spells that the caster casts. Now, I say that if casting the Lesser Vigor spell, which grants fast healing 1, than the healer and the augment healing feat stack with the vigor stuff, granting fast healing 5 if caster has a charisma of 14 My friend says because the entry of healer says "she adds her Charisma modifier to the damage healed" and the Augment Healing entry says "Add +2 points per spell level to the amount of damage healed by any conjuration (healing) spell that you cast", that the use of the word "healed" is not the same as fast healing, and that the healer and augment healing stuff doesn't stack. Who's right? Yes, I realize that vigor isn't on the healer list, its one that the DM agreed should be on the list as it makes sense, and the class was printed before Spell Compendium came out.
LSMFT 10-16-07, 02:55 PM	Well, vigor is a Conjuration (healing) spell, right? So, it should work. I don't see much of a problem here. Unless you were thinking it would add your Cha mod and +2 per round, turn it into fast healing 7 or something. :) No. Augment Healing adds 6 points of healing to a third-level spell. Vigor would, if you allowed this, get 6 additional points of total healing. Not 6/round that you have fast healing.
Jager Mage 10-16-07, 03:16 PM	Lesser vigor, the fast healing 1 was the example, but the argument applies to all the vigor spells. Why wouldn't you get fast healing 5 with a 14 CHA? I can find no where that it clarifies that you wouldn't gain fast healing 5, instead of fast healing 1, +4 in the first round.
Gnarl 10-16-07, 03:25 PM	Question: The healer class from Miniatures gets to add it's CHA modifier to all conjuration healing spells that they cast. Augment healing adds 2 points per spell level to all conjuration healing spells that the caster casts. Now, I say that if casting the Lesser Vigor spell, which grants fast healing 1, than the healer and the augment healing feat stack with the vigor stuff, granting fast healing 5 if caster has a charisma of 14 My friend says because the entry of healer says "she adds her Charisma modifier to the damage healed" and the Augment Healing entry says "Add +2 points per spell level to the amount of damage healed by any conjuration (healing) spell that you cast", that the use of the word "healed" is not the same as fast healing, and that the healer and augment healing stuff doesn't stack. Who's right? Yes, I realize that vigor isn't on the healer list, its one that the DM agreed should be on the list as it makes sense, and the class was printed before Spell Compendium came out. I think the FAQ has something to say about this, or maybe it was customer service, I don't remember. Anyway, last time I checked, it only applied to the first round of casting. So on round 1 you would grant fast healing 1 and cure 4 hit points and the fast healing 1 part lasts for the duration of the spell.
Tilakai 10-16-07, 03:26 PM	Lesser vigor, the fast healing 1 was the example, but the argument applies to all the vigor spells. Why wouldn't you get fast healing 5 with a 14 CHA? I can find no where that it clarifies that you wouldn't gain fast healing 5, instead of fast healing 1, +4 in the first round. Game balance? And the fact that the spell grants the ability fast healing so the Healer is not porviding the healing anymore.
Damned slayer 10-16-07, 03:33 PM	Lesser vigor, the fast healing 1 was the example, but the argument applies to all the vigor spells. Why wouldn't you get fast healing 5 with a 14 CHA? I can find no where that it clarifies that you wouldn't gain fast healing 5, instead of fast healing 1, +4 in the first round. 1st because this makes no sense of using a 1st level spell to heal more than the maximum possible for a 3rd level spell put it that way 5th level characer cure spell lvl 3 make 3d8+5 (+cha +6with feat) lesser vigor would last 5 rounds and each would heal or 1 (+2 +cha) take 18 as charisma score 23 with lvl 3 cure spell than lvl1 vigor would heal or 7/round for 5rounds??? even crazy monsters often dont heal that much per round 2nd those abilities weren't designed with vigor spell mechanic in mind BTW augment healing says increase by +2/spell lvl the amount of damange healed by the spell if you break down the exact sentance it's an overall bonus applied to vigor it would mean divide that by the lasting of the spell and than it would make sense same goes for healer's ability edit : many ppl answered while I was typping lol
CrimsonDeath 10-16-07, 03:56 PM	Lesser vigor, the fast healing 1 was the example, but the argument applies to all the vigor spells. Why wouldn't you get fast healing 5 with a 14 CHA? I can find no where that it clarifies that you wouldn't gain fast healing 5, instead of fast healing 1, +4 in the first round. Think of it this way. Lesser Vigor heals 0 HP of damage, and grants the Fast Healing special quality. Augment Healing increases that 0 by +2, and the Healer's class feature increases it by another +2 for 14 Charisma. So now, Lesser Vigor heals 4 HP of damage, and grants the Fast Healing special quality.
yonman 10-16-07, 04:08 PM	Just so we clear this up, this is in the Main FAQ: What effect does the Augment Healing feat (Complete Divine, page 79) have on lesser vigor (Complete Divine, page 186) and similar spells? Augment Healing adds twice the spell’s level to the total healing it provides. The simplest method is to have the spell apply the extra healing to the first round of fast healing. Thus, lesser vigor (a 1st-level spell) would cure an extra 2 hp of damage in the first round, for a total of 3 hit points. Each round thereafter it would heal the normal 1 hp of damage. Mass lesser D&D FAQ v.3.5 33 Update Version: 05/18/07 vigor (a 3rd-level spell) would cure an extra 6 hp of damage to each target in the first round (for a total of 7 hit points), and would heal 1 hp of damage each round thereafter as normal.
Jager Mage 10-16-07, 11:55 PM	Ok, thanks. That's answers my question.
Someone 10-17-07, 01:53 AM	I agree with the FAQ in this case, with one exception: The hp healed by the feat and the class ability happens on the caster's initiative, while the healing from the vigor spell happens on the subject's initiative (as per the rules for fast healing). This might matter if something goes between the two.
risner 10-18-07, 04:12 PM	Now, I say that if casting the Lesser Vigor spell, which grants fast healing 1, than the healer and the augment healing feat stack with the vigor stuff, granting fast healing 5 if caster has a charisma of 14 No, you gain fast healing 1 and the bonus healing from the CHA and the AH happen on your turn. For example: init 4, player A cast lesser vigor on player B, heal the AH and CHA now. init 2, player B activates, heals 1 from fast healing 1 granted by vigor. init 4, player A does something else. init 2, player B activates, heals 1 from fast healing 1. etc