Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mayhembynight 03-08-06, 03:29 PM	I am playing a cleric and I have the augmented healing feat and a couple of wands of cure light wounds. Since the wands are spell completion and augmented healing effects all conjuration(healing) spells , does it work on the wands.
dvlsadvct 03-11-06, 06:30 PM	I would have to say yes, it would.
BaelinWhale 03-11-06, 06:43 PM	No it wouldn't. Augment Healing specifically stipulates that it must be a spell that you cast. Wands are spell trigger devices, which means that their benefits are already prepackaged and cannot normally be augmented. A staff of healing, however, would benefit from the feat.
Seeker95 03-11-06, 07:39 PM	Tehre is no difference between the wand and the staff in terms of function.. If it is not allowed for the wand, it is not allowed for the staff. And I agree it would not work for the wand.
dvlsadvct 03-11-06, 08:11 PM	I understand the rationale that it is pre-packaged, but, nonetheless you are still casting the spell. What if he created the wand? Would he then benefit from the feat?
Dragonteuthis 03-11-06, 08:17 PM	Tehre is no difference between the wand and the staff in terms of function. Unfortunately, you are totally wrong. Staves use their user's caster level and spell save DCs. Wands are pre-set, and static.
Seeker95 03-11-06, 08:39 PM	Unfortunately, you are totally wrong.I love it when someone tries to open a reply with this kind of langauge.From the SRD: Wands Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. Staffs Staffs use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a staff is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a staff.) To activate a staff, a character must hold it forth in at least one hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures). Spell Triiger Activation Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.Identical methods of activation. Identical mechanics for activation. Since both activation methods use the phrase "casting a spell", it could be argued that you can apply a Feat to spells cast using spell trigger method of activation. Although I disagree with this (using a wand does not provoke an AoO and is not subject to caster level requirements for knowledge of how to use), I do see how it could be so argued. If you want to rule that you can apply Feats to spells cast from a staff, then it applies equally to wands. Next time you want to offer that anyone is "totally wrong" you probably should think about bringing a little direct support. What you offered about DC and caster level has nothing to do with activation.
Merestil Haye 03-11-06, 08:47 PM	I understand the rationale that it is pre-packaged, but, nonetheless you are still casting the spell. What if he created the wand? Would he then benefit from the feat?No, as a matter of fact when a character uses a wand he is not casting a spell. He is activating a magic item. They are two separate actions. A character cannot apply feats and special abilities that work on spells you cast to spells cast from an activated item, because the character did not cast the spell. Staves modify this rule by setting the DC of the save against a spell cast from it by using the ability modifier and any relevant feats of the wielder. It would appear that the save DC is set by the wielder's ability modifier even if the ability is normally too low to cast the spell. Compare this with the text of the following paragraph, which allows the CL of the wielder to replace the CL of the staff if the former is higher. There is no text stating that feats other than DC modifying feats apply, so I would rule that Augment Healing and similar feats do not apply. I would prefer to read the feats before making a final decision though. It is possible to craft wands incorporating metamagic feats provided that the adjusted spell level is 4th or lower. However, I would rule against allowing wands to be crafted with the effects of feats that are not Metamagic applied to them. A wand of Summon Monster II crafted by a character with the Augment Summoning feat, for example, will not summon forth augmented creatures.
dvlsadvct 03-11-06, 08:53 PM	No, as a matter of fact when a character uses a wand he is not casting a spell. He is activating a magic item. They are two separate actions. A character cannot apply feats and special abilities that work on spells you cast to spells cast from an activated item, because the character did not cast the spell. Ah, much clearer now. I see where you are coming from.
Lotus Crane 03-12-06, 01:29 AM	I love it when someone tries to open a reply with this kind of langauge.Identical methods of activation. Identical mechanics for activation. If you want to rule that you can apply Feats to spells cast from a staff, then it applies equally to wands. Next time you want to offer that anyone is "totally wrong" you probably should think about bringing a little direct support. What you offered about DC and caster level has nothing to do with activation. Identical methods of activation, but not identical effects. Considering that staves use their wielder's caster level and save DC but wands don't, I think it's an entirely valid interpretation (and not just a random house rule) for a DM to say that staves also use their wielder's feats but wands don't. The question we need to answer here is: does the spirit of the rules suggest that staff activation is more important than staff effect, or is it the other way around?
Seeker95 03-12-06, 11:53 AM	does the spirit of the rules suggest that staff activation is more important than staff effect, or is it the other way around?Neither. Activation is covered by one set of mechanics. Effect is covered by another. Feats affect spells you cast. You do not cast a wand or staff. You activate it.
mayhembynight 03-22-06, 01:06 PM	I found out later that wand's are spell trigger and not compeltion and with this new insight I agree with the majority. Thanks gang!