Aura Seal: Silver, Lesser (new spell-line!) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aura Seal: Silver, Lesser (new spell-line!) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Artheon
09-30-04, 12:16 PM Hey! I am currently working on a new series/line of spells named "seals", with a very very tiny quirk. Okay, it's really just a microscopic quirk to let me have fancy descriptions and name them all just that: Seals!

So, please, read this, check it thoroughly for balance, and tell me if this sounds interesting. This is a Aura seal, and a Lesser one at that - Lesser and Greater seals of all elements, those I will create first.

One more thing. When you check for balance, bear in mind that this is not to be officially released, but used in my own campaign, and if he permits it, in a friend's campaign, meaning that whether or not this can be broken by using feats from obscure books and combining it with this-and-that, it is really not relevant. I want to know if it is balanced in and with itself alone. ^^
Suggested changes are welcome!

About Seals:

Seals are a special line of Sorcerer, Wizard (and some of them Bard) Spells for D&D 3.5ed. They function pretty much like any spells, except that they require both hands to cast - two free hands with nothing in them - due to the complex finger-maneuvers needed to get them off.

Creatures without digits to form Seals cannot cast them. (Considering adding some non-seal spells that create ghostly hands capable of forming seals.)

Aura Seal: Silver
Evocation[Cold]
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: S,V
Casting Time: 1 standard action.
Range: Personal.
Area: 40-ft.-radius emenation centered on you.
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None.
Spell Resistance: No.

You become sheathed in an aura of cold, with chilly mists swirling in a circular pattern around you - or heavy rainfall and sleet (purely cosmetic). This has a number of effects:

First, all creatures affected, including the caster, take 2d6 points of cold damage for every round they remain inside the area. This damage can be increased by 1d6 for each round of duration sacrificed, to a maximum of 3d6 extra damage. Increasing the damage in this manner only changes the damage for a single round, and you may decide to expend duration in this manner every round on your turn.

Second, all fire spells and fire-based effects, magical and nonmagical, have their damage reduced by the same amount of points that the cold deals in the relevant round. If, for example, this spell deals 9 damage to all creatures one round, then a fireball cast into the affected area will be reduced by 9, and likewise, the damage for passing through a Wall of Fire will be reduced by 9.

Third, any water that comes into contact with the aura will begin to freeze, and if subjected to four effective rounds of the auras, it will be frozen solid to a depth of six inches.

This spell will typically snuff out campfires and torches, and leave the landscape looking as if it were deep winter. Crops might be devastated and a fine layer of rime covers nonvegetative surfaces. (Flavor, this)
kSquared
09-30-04, 12:46 PM I want to know if it is balanced in and with itself alone. ^^
A balanced spell is one that is approximately equal in power to other spells of its level. If you considered only the spell in question when determining balance, then every spell would be balanced, including a 1st-level spell that replicated the effects of wish. If you want us to determine balance, we have to compare it with other spells in the PHB. No two ways about it. If you want a good rule of thumb: "If there's no reason not to take your spell over others, it's probably too good."

Okay, first off, the seals thing. This sounds like an interesting concept, but what about creatures that can cast sorcerer spells without hands, like a unicorn, for instance? Are they always considered to have both hands free?

Next up, the target of the spell is "Target: One living creature or object touched", but the spell also has an area entry for "Area: 120-ft.-radius emenation centered on you." A given spell should have only an "area", "effect", or "target" entry. In this case, given the two conflicting entries and after looking over the description, the area-emanation one is probably the one you meant. In this case, the range should be "Personal" as well.

Next, the spell's school should probably be Conjuration (Summoning) [Cold], like storm of vengeance, or Evocation [Cold]. Transmutation is a little iffy.

Finally, the spell mechanics. Aura seal: lesser silver can potentially do up to 5d6 damage per round to every creature in the area. At spell level 6th, you'd need to be a 13th level wizard before you could cast this, so that means you'd be doing 10 rounds of 5d6 cold damage every round to everybody within 120 feet of you. No saving throw. That's 50d6 cold damage per creature! Compare this to polar ray, an 8th level spell which caps out at 25d6 damage when you're 25th level. On top of that, a 120-ft. radius is an enormous area. Cast this spell in downtown Manhattan, and you'd be taking out an area the size of 4 city blocks. Ow.

Compare this to the 9th-level druid/cleric spell, storm of vengeance. 360-ft. radius, 1d6 acid damage to everybody (no save), six bolts each for 10d6 (single target, Reflex half), 5d6 bludgeoning to everybody (no save), reduce visibility and deafen people.

This doesn't include the other spell effects of your spell, either. As written, this spell is a ninth-level at the very least and probably epic.

To make it 6th level, I'd do the following:

<> shrink area to 60-ft.
<> change duration to 1 round/2 levels, maximum 10 rounds; or concentration, maximum 10 rounds
<> 1d6 cold damage per round, no save; or if using concentration, 1d8 cold damage

It's a cool concept, but it's overpowered right now. A little work can make it into a great spell, though!
Artheon
09-30-04, 01:06 PM Updated it to clarify some things :)

I see I caused some confusion regarding increasing damage at the expense of duration - I re-worded it so that, hopefully, my meaning gets across. A 12th-level caster can have 12 rounds of 2d6, 4 rounds of 5d6, or any combination of rounds/damage - note that the maximum possible "damage total" comes from letting it go at minimum damage/max duration.

I changed it to Evocation [Cold] - thanks for pointing this out, and also for making me aware of the deficiencies in the Area/Range/Target departments. I'm not exactly a veteran when it comes to spell-creation ;)

In the light of the change in the damage/duration formula, I did not change the area or duration. As it is now, would it be somewhat balanced?
kSquared
09-30-04, 01:48 PM Ah, okay, I definitely misunderstood the original intent of your spell. With the new sentence you added, it's much more reasonable, but it's still very powerful.

A 12th-level caster can have 12 rounds of 2d6, 4 rounds of 5d6, or any combination of rounds/damage - note that the maximum possible "damage total" comes from letting it go at minimum damage/max duration.(Technically you'd have to be a 13th-level caster to cast the spell via normal means (you get 6th-level spells at 13th caster level).)

Okay, let's see. In the new version of the spell, 13 rounds of 2d6 is 26d6 cold damage (no save) to everybody in a 60-foot radius. Let's compare to acid fog, a 6th-level spell that deals 2d6 acid damage per round in a 20-ft. radius, no save. In addition, your spell also weakens fire spells cast in its area. Clearly this is more powerful than 6th level. I'd make it 8th. (This is why I suggested the 1d6/1d8 cold damage since acid fog doesn't provide fire weakening and is a fraction of the size.)
Artheon
09-30-04, 01:57 PM Oi.. I had no idea it was still that bad - I simply thought that spells that divided their damage over multiple rounds were a lot lower level, but I cannot deny the comparison with Acid Fog..
(You get 6th level spells at L11 as a wizard btw :) )

How annoying. None of my solid arguments work here.. Except one.
This spell ties the effect to your body, and thus there is no way you can avoid suffering under your own spell by moving away from it. Acid Fog has medium range, too, and I do not think it a very desirable spell..

So, while the total damage is indeed very high, is this a spell everyone would choose? You will have a hard time bringing all this damage to bear - over a very long time - both because a spellcaster will be hard-pressed to survive this long, and also because you and your allies will suffer under it, unless you take measures to protect yourselves.

So we say, compared to Acid Fog:

Comparable Damage - With the option of burning duration for damage at an inefficient rate.
Superior Area
Inferior "Target Type" or Range, if you will.
Additional Negate Fire Effect (Mostly a good thing, but allies fire-effects are likewise negated)
Added freeze water effect.

In this light, would you still claim it is a 7th level spell? Even if stronger than Acid Fog, it is more unwieldy.

I must thank you for your continued interest and/or desire to help, truly! Thank you :)

Edit: I forgot to mention.. You cannot burn it, as a 12th-level caster, for 4 rounds/5d6, as it already "burns" at 1 round per level.. So the best you could do would be three rounds at 5d6.
kSquared
09-30-04, 02:10 PM D'oh, of course you're right about the 11th level thing. Stupid brain.

I disagree with you about the "the caster won't survive this long" argument. You would really only be smart to cast this spell in two instances -- either as a not-quite-9th-level last resort spell, or when you have cold immunity/high cold resistance. It's kinda like arguing that fireball or shout should really be second level because you might hurt your friends with it.

In light of all that, yeah, I still think it should be about 7th level. But a second opinion from one of the other smart people on these boards would probably paint a more complete picture. :)

edit: I did forget to note that acid fog also slows you down and breaks line of sight; yours now looks a little more reasonable as a 6th-level spell. I'd say it's right on the fence between a somewhat powerful 6th and a weaker 7th.
Artheon
09-30-04, 02:15 PM Until someone else deigns to give their opinion on this; What would you do to this to make it a 6th level spell? I really like it the way it is, but I also want my 12th lvl Sorcerer to have this spell - we're playing a thing on Saturday.

So of course, I will hear with the DM whether he thinks it overpowered as it is now, or if he agrees that it is a little too strong. And aye, I realize that using "it might harm me allies!" is a bit lame a point, though it is slightly more likely to do so than a fireball, thanks to the emanation effect; I can but acquiesce.

The question still stands, though! What would you do? Perhaps make the duration "5 rounds +1 round/2 levels"?
Do give me a few alternatives ^^

Weak 7th or Strong 6th you say.. Then what could nudge this spell every so slightly? This is really just a repeat of what I just asked, but.. well, to letcha know I read your edit :P
kSquared
09-30-04, 02:24 PM Some things that would definitely make this 6th level or lower:

<> change to 40-ft.-radius emanation
<> change duration to "Concentration, maximum 1 round/level"
<> making the duration 1 round/2 levels and changing the damage to 4d4/round, or making it 1 round/2 levels and changing damage to 2d4/round (4th or 5th level, see ice storm for comparison)
<> removing the second part of the spell's effect (this would probably make it 5th) or replacing it with something weaker like "slows all movement speeds by 10 feet due to heavy snowfall" (keeps it at 6th)

Also, for spells with you as the target (like some emanations) and with a range of personal, you can leave off the spell resistance/saving throw lines (they're always "Saving Throw: None, Spell Resistance: No").
Artheon
09-30-04, 02:35 PM There! I changed the area to a 40-ft emanation. Emanation - always no save/no SR? Wow. Now I think I understand a bit more. It truly is powerful :)

I removed the word "Lesser" from the name. Honestly, this was not easy to balance, and I am unsure if it possible to make a "Greater" version that's efficient, quite kick-arse and still balanced.

I will be working on the Silver Seal line, then do the Brass Seals. After that, I need names for the Earth and Air lines. Perhaps I'll make a post featuring all the spells of each line when I am done with them, and ask everyone to toss their opinions at me, rather than (not that I intended to) post each and every spell seperately.. Yeah.

Now to make the Silver Seal: Cascade! (Semi-cheesy names on purpose ;) )

Thanks for you help, much appreciated! ^_^
Edit: I decided to leave the Save/SR lines because, well, not everyone knows Emanations have no saves/SR. Like.. I didn't, until ten minutes ago, hee.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Artheon 09-30-04, 12:16 PM	Hey! I am currently working on a new series/line of spells named "seals", with a very very tiny quirk. Okay, it's really just a microscopic quirk to let me have fancy descriptions and name them all just that: Seals! So, please, read this, check it thoroughly for balance, and tell me if this sounds interesting. This is a Aura seal, and a Lesser one at that - Lesser and Greater seals of all elements, those I will create first. One more thing. When you check for balance, bear in mind that this is not to be officially released, but used in my own campaign, and if he permits it, in a friend's campaign, meaning that whether or not this can be broken by using feats from obscure books and combining it with this-and-that, it is really not relevant. I want to know if it is balanced in and with itself alone. ^^ Suggested changes are welcome! About Seals: Seals are a special line of Sorcerer, Wizard (and some of them Bard) Spells for D&D 3.5ed. They function pretty much like any spells, except that they require both hands to cast - two free hands with nothing in them - due to the complex finger-maneuvers needed to get them off. Creatures without digits to form Seals cannot cast them. (Considering adding some non-seal spells that create ghostly hands capable of forming seals.) Aura Seal: Silver Evocation[Cold] Level: Sor/Wiz 6 Components: S,V Casting Time: 1 standard action. Range: Personal. Area: 40-ft.-radius emenation centered on you. Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: None. Spell Resistance: No. You become sheathed in an aura of cold, with chilly mists swirling in a circular pattern around you - or heavy rainfall and sleet (purely cosmetic). This has a number of effects: First, all creatures affected, including the caster, take 2d6 points of cold damage for every round they remain inside the area. This damage can be increased by 1d6 for each round of duration sacrificed, to a maximum of 3d6 extra damage. Increasing the damage in this manner only changes the damage for a single round, and you may decide to expend duration in this manner every round on your turn. Second, all fire spells and fire-based effects, magical and nonmagical, have their damage reduced by the same amount of points that the cold deals in the relevant round. If, for example, this spell deals 9 damage to all creatures one round, then a fireball cast into the affected area will be reduced by 9, and likewise, the damage for passing through a Wall of Fire will be reduced by 9. Third, any water that comes into contact with the aura will begin to freeze, and if subjected to four effective rounds of the auras, it will be frozen solid to a depth of six inches. This spell will typically snuff out campfires and torches, and leave the landscape looking as if it were deep winter. Crops might be devastated and a fine layer of rime covers nonvegetative surfaces. (Flavor, this)
kSquared 09-30-04, 12:46 PM	I want to know if it is balanced in and with itself alone. ^^ A balanced spell is one that is approximately equal in power to other spells of its level. If you considered only the spell in question when determining balance, then every spell would be balanced, including a 1st-level spell that replicated the effects of wish. If you want us to determine balance, we have to compare it with other spells in the PHB. No two ways about it. If you want a good rule of thumb: "If there's no reason not to take your spell over others, it's probably too good." Okay, first off, the seals thing. This sounds like an interesting concept, but what about creatures that can cast sorcerer spells without hands, like a unicorn, for instance? Are they always considered to have both hands free? Next up, the target of the spell is "Target: One living creature or object touched", but the spell also has an area entry for "Area: 120-ft.-radius emenation centered on you." A given spell should have only an "area", "effect", or "target" entry. In this case, given the two conflicting entries and after looking over the description, the area-emanation one is probably the one you meant. In this case, the range should be "Personal" as well. Next, the spell's school should probably be Conjuration (Summoning) [Cold], like storm of vengeance, or Evocation [Cold]. Transmutation is a little iffy. Finally, the spell mechanics. Aura seal: lesser silver can potentially do up to 5d6 damage per round to every creature in the area. At spell level 6th, you'd need to be a 13th level wizard before you could cast this, so that means you'd be doing 10 rounds of 5d6 cold damage every round to everybody within 120 feet of you. No saving throw. That's 50d6 cold damage per creature! Compare this to polar ray, an 8th level spell which caps out at 25d6 damage when you're 25th level. On top of that, a 120-ft. radius is an enormous area. Cast this spell in downtown Manhattan, and you'd be taking out an area the size of 4 city blocks. Ow. Compare this to the 9th-level druid/cleric spell, storm of vengeance. 360-ft. radius, 1d6 acid damage to everybody (no save), six bolts each for 10d6 (single target, Reflex half), 5d6 bludgeoning to everybody (no save), reduce visibility and deafen people. This doesn't include the other spell effects of your spell, either. As written, this spell is a ninth-level at the very least and probably epic. To make it 6th level, I'd do the following: <> shrink area to 60-ft. <> change duration to 1 round/2 levels, maximum 10 rounds; or concentration, maximum 10 rounds <> 1d6 cold damage per round, no save; or if using concentration, 1d8 cold damage It's a cool concept, but it's overpowered right now. A little work can make it into a great spell, though!
Artheon 09-30-04, 01:06 PM	Updated it to clarify some things :) I see I caused some confusion regarding increasing damage at the expense of duration - I re-worded it so that, hopefully, my meaning gets across. A 12th-level caster can have 12 rounds of 2d6, 4 rounds of 5d6, or any combination of rounds/damage - note that the maximum possible "damage total" comes from letting it go at minimum damage/max duration. I changed it to Evocation [Cold] - thanks for pointing this out, and also for making me aware of the deficiencies in the Area/Range/Target departments. I'm not exactly a veteran when it comes to spell-creation ;) In the light of the change in the damage/duration formula, I did not change the area or duration. As it is now, would it be somewhat balanced?
kSquared 09-30-04, 01:48 PM	Ah, okay, I definitely misunderstood the original intent of your spell. With the new sentence you added, it's much more reasonable, but it's still very powerful. A 12th-level caster can have 12 rounds of 2d6, 4 rounds of 5d6, or any combination of rounds/damage - note that the maximum possible "damage total" comes from letting it go at minimum damage/max duration.(Technically you'd have to be a 13th-level caster to cast the spell via normal means (you get 6th-level spells at 13th caster level).) Okay, let's see. In the new version of the spell, 13 rounds of 2d6 is 26d6 cold damage (no save) to everybody in a 60-foot radius. Let's compare to acid fog, a 6th-level spell that deals 2d6 acid damage per round in a 20-ft. radius, no save. In addition, your spell also weakens fire spells cast in its area. Clearly this is more powerful than 6th level. I'd make it 8th. (This is why I suggested the 1d6/1d8 cold damage since acid fog doesn't provide fire weakening and is a fraction of the size.)
Artheon 09-30-04, 01:57 PM	Oi.. I had no idea it was still that bad - I simply thought that spells that divided their damage over multiple rounds were a lot lower level, but I cannot deny the comparison with Acid Fog.. (You get 6th level spells at L11 as a wizard btw :) ) How annoying. None of my solid arguments work here.. Except one. This spell ties the effect to your body, and thus there is no way you can avoid suffering under your own spell by moving away from it. Acid Fog has medium range, too, and I do not think it a very desirable spell.. So, while the total damage is indeed very high, is this a spell everyone would choose? You will have a hard time bringing all this damage to bear - over a very long time - both because a spellcaster will be hard-pressed to survive this long, and also because you and your allies will suffer under it, unless you take measures to protect yourselves. So we say, compared to Acid Fog: Comparable Damage - With the option of burning duration for damage at an inefficient rate. Superior Area Inferior "Target Type" or Range, if you will. Additional Negate Fire Effect (Mostly a good thing, but allies fire-effects are likewise negated) Added freeze water effect. In this light, would you still claim it is a 7th level spell? Even if stronger than Acid Fog, it is more unwieldy. I must thank you for your continued interest and/or desire to help, truly! Thank you :) Edit: I forgot to mention.. You cannot burn it, as a 12th-level caster, for 4 rounds/5d6, as it already "burns" at 1 round per level.. So the best you could do would be three rounds at 5d6.
kSquared 09-30-04, 02:10 PM	D'oh, of course you're right about the 11th level thing. Stupid brain. I disagree with you about the "the caster won't survive this long" argument. You would really only be smart to cast this spell in two instances -- either as a not-quite-9th-level last resort spell, or when you have cold immunity/high cold resistance. It's kinda like arguing that fireball or shout should really be second level because you might hurt your friends with it. In light of all that, yeah, I still think it should be about 7th level. But a second opinion from one of the other smart people on these boards would probably paint a more complete picture. :) edit: I did forget to note that acid fog also slows you down and breaks line of sight; yours now looks a little more reasonable as a 6th-level spell. I'd say it's right on the fence between a somewhat powerful 6th and a weaker 7th.
Artheon 09-30-04, 02:15 PM	Until someone else deigns to give their opinion on this; What would you do to this to make it a 6th level spell? I really like it the way it is, but I also want my 12th lvl Sorcerer to have this spell - we're playing a thing on Saturday. So of course, I will hear with the DM whether he thinks it overpowered as it is now, or if he agrees that it is a little too strong. And aye, I realize that using "it might harm me allies!" is a bit lame a point, though it is slightly more likely to do so than a fireball, thanks to the emanation effect; I can but acquiesce. The question still stands, though! What would you do? Perhaps make the duration "5 rounds +1 round/2 levels"? Do give me a few alternatives ^^ Weak 7th or Strong 6th you say.. Then what could nudge this spell every so slightly? This is really just a repeat of what I just asked, but.. well, to letcha know I read your edit :P
kSquared 09-30-04, 02:24 PM	Some things that would definitely make this 6th level or lower: <> change to 40-ft.-radius emanation <> change duration to "Concentration, maximum 1 round/level" <> making the duration 1 round/2 levels and changing the damage to 4d4/round, or making it 1 round/2 levels and changing damage to 2d4/round (4th or 5th level, see ice storm for comparison) <> removing the second part of the spell's effect (this would probably make it 5th) or replacing it with something weaker like "slows all movement speeds by 10 feet due to heavy snowfall" (keeps it at 6th) Also, for spells with you as the target (like some emanations) and with a range of personal, you can leave off the spell resistance/saving throw lines (they're always "Saving Throw: None, Spell Resistance: No").
Artheon 09-30-04, 02:35 PM	There! I changed the area to a 40-ft emanation. Emanation - always no save/no SR? Wow. Now I think I understand a bit more. It truly is powerful :) I removed the word "Lesser" from the name. Honestly, this was not easy to balance, and I am unsure if it possible to make a "Greater" version that's efficient, quite kick-arse and still balanced. I will be working on the Silver Seal line, then do the Brass Seals. After that, I need names for the Earth and Air lines. Perhaps I'll make a post featuring all the spells of each line when I am done with them, and ask everyone to toss their opinions at me, rather than (not that I intended to) post each and every spell seperately.. Yeah. Now to make the Silver Seal: Cascade! (Semi-cheesy names on purpose ;) ) Thanks for you help, much appreciated! ^_^ Edit: I decided to leave the Save/SR lines because, well, not everyone knows Emanations have no saves/SR. Like.. I didn't, until ten minutes ago, hee.