Aura: Lesser Globe of Invulnability???? , Ghaele Problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aura: Lesser Globe of Invulnability???? , Ghaele Problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
wonderland666
03-05-05, 05:46 AM I am a little bit confused about the Aura of a Ghaele (MM1):
I think you can't Switch an Aura of. right?
Okay here the Problem:
A ghaele has a protectiv Aura, that works like a Circle of Prot evil and a lesser Globe of Invul. (Radius 20 feet, centered on him)
Okay but he has a lot of spelllikeabilitys of 1-3 level (endless uses!) with touch or personal range (cure light wounds, see invis.)
how does this work??? He can't switch his aura of and can't use that spelllikeab. under the aura :confused:
Grynn
03-05-05, 09:46 AM A (minor) globe of invulnerability only excludes harmful spells.
Shatteredtower
03-05-05, 11:01 AM A (minor) globe of invulnerability only excludes harmful spells.

Not according to the spell description: "excludes all spell effects..."

Also note that any spell can be cast through or out of the globe. That doesn't offer much benefit to those touch range spell-like abilities with durations of instantaneous (barring access to spectral hand). This doesn't work out too badly if it's offering aid to an ally, provided that the ally then leaves the aura.

However, there is another benefit to the aura -- it doesn't negate spell-like abilities already in effect at the time the globe is cast. The ghaele can thus suppress the field to use disguise self, then reactivate the field without losing that benefit.
Vatras
03-05-05, 12:14 PM I believe that the power of the Ghaele was a mistake by the designer. In earlier editions the globe did not work like now, but as a bubble, through which low level spells could not pass, effectively granting immunity to 1st through 3rd level magic. They should have written up the power anew and not have referred to the spell (which is immobile, btw, another conundrum with the Ghaele).
Shatteredtower
03-05-05, 12:54 PM I believe that the power of the Ghaele was a mistake by the designer. In earlier editions the globe did not work like now, but as a bubble, through which low level spells could not pass, effectively granting immunity to 1st through 3rd level magic. They should have written up the power anew and not have referred to the spell (which is immobile, btw, another conundrum with the Ghaele).

The spell is immobile, but that is irrelevant to the aura, which is an effect centered on the ghaele. That is the core effect, which is not overridden by other effects it duplicates.
Egres
03-05-05, 05:02 PM The ghaele can thus suppress the field to use disguise self, then reactivate the field without losing that benefit.
Can you quote a rule that proves that the Ghaele can suppress the globe?

Note:I'm not challenging you.

I'm really interested to this issue.
was_fired
03-05-05, 06:27 PM Lesser globe of invulnerability has a duration which is dismissable. Thus it is logical to conclude that it can be lowered.
wonderland666
03-05-05, 08:15 PM mm well if you can suppress it, it would be okay, but it's an Aura, a paladin couldn't suppress it's aura (would be sometimes a good idee)
well it has a casterlevel of 12 and is a SU-Ability. Maybe you can dispel it?
(can SU be dispeled?)
Other idea: With casterlevel 12 it would only work 12 rounds...--> maybe you can aktivate/Deaktivate it.
Egres
03-06-05, 05:00 AM Lesser globe of invulnerability has a duration which is dismissable. Thus it is logical to conclude that it can be lowered.
Right.

But if we compare the aura to the spell we also should assume that the aura is immobile, and we know that's not true.
Shatteredtower
03-06-05, 11:22 AM Right.

But if we compare the aura to the spell we also should assume that the aura is immobile, and we know that's not true.

True, there's nothing to indicate that the part of the aura that duplicates a dismissible spell is itself dismissible seperately from another spell effect that's not dismissible.

However, the ability does not state that it's always active, unlike another of the ghaele's supernatural abilities: tongues. That's not proof of itself, I admit. The only other thing I've got is the material in the Monster Manual glossary, which expands upon (but doesn't contradict) those in the PHB and DMG: "Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will..."

It's not noted otherwise for the aura (unlike the tongues ability), though there is no noted duration. There's no note of a use limit, which suggests, based on the precedent of monsters like the medusa, wraith, and balor, that it's usable at will. It's not outright proof, however, though if one rules that the aura is always active (barring the presence of an anti-magic field), a consistent ruling would require that a balor can never shut off its flames. (Many people would be fine with that, others would prefer the option to rein it in now and then.)

I can't find a sentence that clearly states, "This ability can be dismissed at will," nor even as a standard action, I'm afraid. That makes things tricky, because then you're left asking how long the power remains in effect. Does it have a duration, last as long as the ghaele needs it, or require a standard action ot keep up every round? With a lack of hard rules, the ability must either last until dismissed or require the standard action each round. It might be possible that it lasted as long as the two spells in question, except that magic circle against evil would last for 100 minutes, much longer than the 10 rounds for lesser globe of invulnerability.

Obviously a judgment call or house rule is going to be required on this one. Neither "always active," nor "can be dismissed at will as a..." free or standard action can be conclusively declared the default interpretation here. We know which one allows the ghaele to use all of its spell-like abilities, but intent is not sufficient proof to strict rules lawyering. Then again, if the RAW don't contradict that interpretation (in the sense that they can be read to both support it and deny it), what purpose would it serve to rule otherwise? I'll agree that the rules for this aura effect should have been written more clearly in this regard, though.

It is certainly a more than fair question. The best I can provide is an answer that at least doesn't contradict the RAW and allows the ghaele to make use of its powers. It's not the only interepretation that doesn't contradict RAW, but it's the only one that allows for use of disguise self -- unless you house rule out the description of the power of lesser globe of invulnerability and replace it with something similar (but not identical) in effect, such as, "Spells of 3rd level or lower may not be cast across this shell."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wonderland666 03-05-05, 05:46 AM	I am a little bit confused about the Aura of a Ghaele (MM1): I think you can't Switch an Aura of. right? Okay here the Problem: A ghaele has a protectiv Aura, that works like a Circle of Prot evil and a lesser Globe of Invul. (Radius 20 feet, centered on him) Okay but he has a lot of spelllikeabilitys of 1-3 level (endless uses!) with touch or personal range (cure light wounds, see invis.) how does this work??? He can't switch his aura of and can't use that spelllikeab. under the aura :confused:
Grynn 03-05-05, 09:46 AM	A (minor) globe of invulnerability only excludes harmful spells.
Shatteredtower 03-05-05, 11:01 AM	A (minor) globe of invulnerability only excludes harmful spells. Not according to the spell description: "excludes all spell effects..." Also note that any spell can be cast through or out of the globe. That doesn't offer much benefit to those touch range spell-like abilities with durations of instantaneous (barring access to spectral hand). This doesn't work out too badly if it's offering aid to an ally, provided that the ally then leaves the aura. However, there is another benefit to the aura -- it doesn't negate spell-like abilities already in effect at the time the globe is cast. The ghaele can thus suppress the field to use disguise self, then reactivate the field without losing that benefit.
Vatras 03-05-05, 12:14 PM	I believe that the power of the Ghaele was a mistake by the designer. In earlier editions the globe did not work like now, but as a bubble, through which low level spells could not pass, effectively granting immunity to 1st through 3rd level magic. They should have written up the power anew and not have referred to the spell (which is immobile, btw, another conundrum with the Ghaele).
Shatteredtower 03-05-05, 12:54 PM	I believe that the power of the Ghaele was a mistake by the designer. In earlier editions the globe did not work like now, but as a bubble, through which low level spells could not pass, effectively granting immunity to 1st through 3rd level magic. They should have written up the power anew and not have referred to the spell (which is immobile, btw, another conundrum with the Ghaele). The spell is immobile, but that is irrelevant to the aura, which is an effect centered on the ghaele. That is the core effect, which is not overridden by other effects it duplicates.
Egres 03-05-05, 05:02 PM	The ghaele can thus suppress the field to use disguise self, then reactivate the field without losing that benefit. Can you quote a rule that proves that the Ghaele can suppress the globe? Note:I'm not challenging you. I'm really interested to this issue.
was_fired 03-05-05, 06:27 PM	Lesser globe of invulnerability has a duration which is dismissable. Thus it is logical to conclude that it can be lowered.
wonderland666 03-05-05, 08:15 PM	mm well if you can suppress it, it would be okay, but it's an Aura, a paladin couldn't suppress it's aura (would be sometimes a good idee) well it has a casterlevel of 12 and is a SU-Ability. Maybe you can dispel it? (can SU be dispeled?) Other idea: With casterlevel 12 it would only work 12 rounds...--> maybe you can aktivate/Deaktivate it.
Egres 03-06-05, 05:00 AM	Lesser globe of invulnerability has a duration which is dismissable. Thus it is logical to conclude that it can be lowered. Right. But if we compare the aura to the spell we also should assume that the aura is immobile, and we know that's not true.
Shatteredtower 03-06-05, 11:22 AM	Right. But if we compare the aura to the spell we also should assume that the aura is immobile, and we know that's not true. True, there's nothing to indicate that the part of the aura that duplicates a dismissible spell is itself dismissible seperately from another spell effect that's not dismissible. However, the ability does not state that it's always active, unlike another of the ghaele's supernatural abilities: tongues. That's not proof of itself, I admit. The only other thing I've got is the material in the Monster Manual glossary, which expands upon (but doesn't contradict) those in the PHB and DMG: "Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise. Supernatural abilities may have a use limit or be usable at will..." It's not noted otherwise for the aura (unlike the tongues ability), though there is no noted duration. There's no note of a use limit, which suggests, based on the precedent of monsters like the medusa, wraith, and balor, that it's usable at will. It's not outright proof, however, though if one rules that the aura is always active (barring the presence of an anti-magic field), a consistent ruling would require that a balor can never shut off its flames. (Many people would be fine with that, others would prefer the option to rein it in now and then.) I can't find a sentence that clearly states, "This ability can be dismissed at will," nor even as a standard action, I'm afraid. That makes things tricky, because then you're left asking how long the power remains in effect. Does it have a duration, last as long as the ghaele needs it, or require a standard action ot keep up every round? With a lack of hard rules, the ability must either last until dismissed or require the standard action each round. It might be possible that it lasted as long as the two spells in question, except that magic circle against evil would last for 100 minutes, much longer than the 10 rounds for lesser globe of invulnerability. Obviously a judgment call or house rule is going to be required on this one. Neither "always active," nor "can be dismissed at will as a..." free or standard action can be conclusively declared the default interpretation here. We know which one allows the ghaele to use all of its spell-like abilities, but intent is not sufficient proof to strict rules lawyering. Then again, if the RAW don't contradict that interpretation (in the sense that they can be read to both support it and deny it), what purpose would it serve to rule otherwise? I'll agree that the rules for this aura effect should have been written more clearly in this regard, though. It is certainly a more than fair question. The best I can provide is an answer that at least doesn't contradict the RAW and allows the ghaele to make use of its powers. It's not the only interepretation that doesn't contradict RAW, but it's the only one that allows for use of disguise self -- unless you house rule out the description of the power of lesser globe of invulnerability and replace it with something similar (but not identical) in effect, such as, "Spells of 3rd level or lower may not be cast across this shell."