Back to Life Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Back to Life Spells [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Reznor00
10-15-06, 10:40 PM I just wondered other DMs/players opinions on use of spells that bring back to life characters. It sort of seems as if death is not a real threat to the end with the spell mechanics for bring character back. I tend to RP a afterlife experience and sometimes character don't want to come back and leave paradise.

I'm just curious of others opinions on this subject

Thanks in advance,
MB
Seeker95
10-16-06, 07:04 AM I still require a Fortitude save for success. A failed save means the PC soul doesn't want to come back, or the deity ruling whatever afterlife world the PC ended up in will not release the soul.

It at least keeps the risk of death being potentially permanent.
Reznor00
10-17-06, 12:43 AM Not a bad idea, but it still seems super video game respawn is if you can come back to life so easily. I'm working on a home-brew world and I really want death to be a realistic and finality alot of the time. Gives the players fear of doing anything to crazy and stupid when you make coming back from the dead a really limited option. Just not sure the best ways to restrict it so much in the mechanics, but still make it possible.

I thought if making it have super rare component requirments the kind you can't buy really so much as you have to quest specifically to find.

~MB
DragonChild_
10-17-06, 12:58 AM Notice what level raise dead first appears. Notice that slay living is on the same level, and phantasmal killer is available two levels earlier.

The resurrection spells are important, as they're introduced at a level in which your PCs may only roll two dice, initiative and a saving throw, and suddenly, BAM - they're dead. I don't think you can alter the resurrection spells without changing save or dies first.
Platonix
10-18-06, 02:47 AM DragonChild_ has a very good point. Every change you make has ramifications.

Other than that, though, here are some thought on how to make raising the dead more difficult and/or costly without making it impossible.

1) Increase the level loss. Perhaps the raise dead spell brings back a character at 2 or 3 levels below where (s)he was, and even true ressurection still brings them back at a single level lower than where they were. Due to the odd nature of the reincarnate spell, I could see an argument for making it bring back a character at level 1, though that might actually make it less powerful than the lower-spell-level raise dead. Maybe you could switch their spell levels?

2) Add a focus component to the spells, and make it huge. Like a six-foot gold statue of the caster's deity or something. Why? So that PCs probably can't raise dead themselves, and must bring corpses back to the nearest city and pay a temple's clergy to cast the spell that brings back the character. If raising the dead is a chore, the party will start to resent members who die frequently. (Beware, however, of arcanists actually coming up with ways to bring six-foot gold statues of the party cleric's deity into dungeons with relative ease. Someone probably will.)
runestar
10-18-06, 06:55 AM Well, in theory, if my character dies and I can't raise him, I could always just play a new character that is similar to the old one...resurrection just makes it more convenient, I suppose.:P
IMarvinTPA
10-18-06, 10:12 AM Here's a list of spells that will bring life back to the dead:
http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndLive/Index_Group.php?Group_ID=2
There are two home-brew spells in there as well that we used to great affect.
Last Breath
Raise Dead
Rapid Raise Dead
Rapid Resurrection
Reanimation
Reincarnate
Resurrection
Revenance
Revive Outsider
Revivify
True Resurrection

Revenance and Reanimation are the really weird ones of the bunch.
Revenance is a temporary revive that lets the character fight for a bit, then they die again. This is handy to pair up with Revivify since it has a time limit from death and since Revenance resets the death time, you can follow it up at just the right time.

IMarv

IMarv
Prominence
10-18-06, 12:25 PM Heroes of Horror has variant raised afflictions, mostly RP, that are consequences of being raised. Simply roll the dice and refer to the table.
mvincent
10-18-06, 12:37 PM It sort of seems as if death is not a real threatIn a game where you can just roll up another character, death isn't a real threat either way.

If you are approaching it from a role-playing perspective, fantasy worlds generally have positive confirmation of an afterlife (that is often better than the current world). The affect this could have on people's attitude towards death cannot be underestimated.
Neutronium_Dragon
10-18-06, 01:25 PM Yes, the net effect is to create "disposable PC syndrome". Given how easily death happens in D&D there's very little incentive to put much effort into playing (or roleplaying) any of them when it's liable to be a short-term gig - especially at higher level where one bad save equals dead and then some.

If you up the penalty it creates the same result. It's easier to just create the new character than suck up the unnecessarily harsh raising penalty, so do the former.

Neither is particularly great if you care about party or storyline continuity, which is why coming back from the dead is kept relatively easy.
DarkWarriorKarg
10-18-06, 04:33 PM The game is balanced on Resurrection vs Insta-death.

Remember, apart from the diamonds, you lose a level each time, unless it's true res.

And you get disposable PC syndrome either way. So don't fight it, accept it.

Why should I care if I can just replace one PC with another? I'd invest LESS in the actual character at that point. Once the save-or-die spells start flying, I won't really care.

It's like having a Killer DM: Why should I care about the character if it dies within 2 sessions? Why would I even PLAY?

Will you alter the Bodak's insta-death, for instance, if you remove the raise & resurrections?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Reznor00 10-15-06, 10:40 PM	I just wondered other DMs/players opinions on use of spells that bring back to life characters. It sort of seems as if death is not a real threat to the end with the spell mechanics for bring character back. I tend to RP a afterlife experience and sometimes character don't want to come back and leave paradise. I'm just curious of others opinions on this subject Thanks in advance, MB
Seeker95 10-16-06, 07:04 AM	I still require a Fortitude save for success. A failed save means the PC soul doesn't want to come back, or the deity ruling whatever afterlife world the PC ended up in will not release the soul. It at least keeps the risk of death being potentially permanent.
Reznor00 10-17-06, 12:43 AM	Not a bad idea, but it still seems super video game respawn is if you can come back to life so easily. I'm working on a home-brew world and I really want death to be a realistic and finality alot of the time. Gives the players fear of doing anything to crazy and stupid when you make coming back from the dead a really limited option. Just not sure the best ways to restrict it so much in the mechanics, but still make it possible. I thought if making it have super rare component requirments the kind you can't buy really so much as you have to quest specifically to find. ~MB
DragonChild_ 10-17-06, 12:58 AM	Notice what level raise dead first appears. Notice that slay living is on the same level, and phantasmal killer is available two levels earlier. The resurrection spells are important, as they're introduced at a level in which your PCs may only roll two dice, initiative and a saving throw, and suddenly, BAM - they're dead. I don't think you can alter the resurrection spells without changing save or dies first.
Platonix 10-18-06, 02:47 AM	DragonChild_ has a very good point. Every change you make has ramifications. Other than that, though, here are some thought on how to make raising the dead more difficult and/or costly without making it impossible. 1) Increase the level loss. Perhaps the raise dead spell brings back a character at 2 or 3 levels below where (s)he was, and even true ressurection still brings them back at a single level lower than where they were. Due to the odd nature of the reincarnate spell, I could see an argument for making it bring back a character at level 1, though that might actually make it less powerful than the lower-spell-level raise dead. Maybe you could switch their spell levels? 2) Add a focus component to the spells, and make it huge. Like a six-foot gold statue of the caster's deity or something. Why? So that PCs probably can't raise dead themselves, and must bring corpses back to the nearest city and pay a temple's clergy to cast the spell that brings back the character. If raising the dead is a chore, the party will start to resent members who die frequently. (Beware, however, of arcanists actually coming up with ways to bring six-foot gold statues of the party cleric's deity into dungeons with relative ease. Someone probably will.)
runestar 10-18-06, 06:55 AM	Well, in theory, if my character dies and I can't raise him, I could always just play a new character that is similar to the old one...resurrection just makes it more convenient, I suppose.:P
IMarvinTPA 10-18-06, 10:12 AM	Here's a list of spells that will bring life back to the dead: http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndLive/Index_Group.php?Group_ID=2 There are two home-brew spells in there as well that we used to great affect. Last Breath Raise Dead Rapid Raise Dead Rapid Resurrection Reanimation Reincarnate Resurrection Revenance Revive Outsider Revivify True Resurrection Revenance and Reanimation are the really weird ones of the bunch. Revenance is a temporary revive that lets the character fight for a bit, then they die again. This is handy to pair up with Revivify since it has a time limit from death and since Revenance resets the death time, you can follow it up at just the right time. IMarv IMarv
Prominence 10-18-06, 12:25 PM	Heroes of Horror has variant raised afflictions, mostly RP, that are consequences of being raised. Simply roll the dice and refer to the table.
mvincent 10-18-06, 12:37 PM	It sort of seems as if death is not a real threatIn a game where you can just roll up another character, death isn't a real threat either way. If you are approaching it from a role-playing perspective, fantasy worlds generally have positive confirmation of an afterlife (that is often better than the current world). The affect this could have on people's attitude towards death cannot be underestimated.
Neutronium_Dragon 10-18-06, 01:25 PM	Yes, the net effect is to create "disposable PC syndrome". Given how easily death happens in D&D there's very little incentive to put much effort into playing (or roleplaying) any of them when it's liable to be a short-term gig - especially at higher level where one bad save equals dead and then some. If you up the penalty it creates the same result. It's easier to just create the new character than suck up the unnecessarily harsh raising penalty, so do the former. Neither is particularly great if you care about party or storyline continuity, which is why coming back from the dead is kept relatively easy.
DarkWarriorKarg 10-18-06, 04:33 PM	The game is balanced on Resurrection vs Insta-death. Remember, apart from the diamonds, you lose a level each time, unless it's true res. And you get disposable PC syndrome either way. So don't fight it, accept it. Why should I care if I can just replace one PC with another? I'd invest LESS in the actual character at that point. Once the save-or-die spells start flying, I won't really care. It's like having a Killer DM: Why should I care about the character if it dies within 2 sessions? Why would I even PLAY? Will you alter the Bodak's insta-death, for instance, if you remove the raise & resurrections?