Bag of Holding & Rope Trick ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bag of Holding & Rope Trick ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MtnManiacX
10-17-07, 01:47 PM If you can't take an extradimensional space (bag of holding) into another (rope trick), what do you do with your bag if you wanna use rope trick??
vorpo
10-17-07, 02:20 PM If you can't take an extradimensional space (bag of holding) into another (rope trick), what do you do with your bag if you wanna use rope trick??

I'd say the rules were meant to deal with short-lived extradimensions. Spells like Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion creates extradimensions and it would be pointless to leave your bag of holding outside the entrance.

I'd rule that any extradimensions lasting longer than an hr is considered NOT short-lived.
Nadaka
10-17-07, 02:49 PM The rules exist only for the interaction of bags of holding and portable holes. It is possible to safely bring either into a rope trick or even place bags of holding within one another and portable holes within one another.

Bag of Holding: This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag’s contents, depend on the bag’s type, as shown on the table below.
Bag Bag Weight Contents Weight Limit Contents Volume Limit Market Price
Type I 15 lb. 250 lb. 30 cu. ft. 2,500 gp
Type II 25 lb. 500 lb. 70 cu. ft. 5,000 gp
Type III 35 lb. 1,000 lb. 150 cu. ft. 7,400 gp
Type IV 60 lb. 1,500 lb. 250 cu. ft. 10,000 gp
If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again. If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action—unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action.
If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest.

Rope Trick
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One touched piece of rope from 5 ft. to 30 ft. long
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (“planes”). Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). Creatures in the space can pull the rope up into the space, making the rope “disappear.” In that case, the rope counts as one of the eight creatures that can fit in the space. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free.
Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot-by- 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space.
Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one.
Material Component: Powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment.

Portable Hole: A portable hole is a circle of cloth spun from the webs of a phase spider interwoven with strands of ether and beams of starlight. When opened fully, a portable hole is 6 feet in diameter, but it can be folded up to be as small as a pocket handkerchief. When spread upon any surface, it causes an extradimensional space 10 feet deep to come into being. This hole can be picked up from inside or out by simply taking hold of the edges of the cloth and folding it up. Either way, the entrance disappears, but anything inside the hole remains.
The only air in the hole is that which enters when the hole is opened. It contains enough air to supply one Medium creature or two Small creatures for 10 minutes. The cloth does not accumulate weight even if its hole is filled. Each portable hole opens on its own particular nondimensional space. If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in that place. Both the bag and the cloth are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, the portable hole and bag of holding being destroyed in the process.
Moderate conjuration; CL 12th; Craft Wondrous Item, plane shift; Price 20,000 gp.

A bag of holding contains a non-dimensional space, no conflict with rope trick. A portable hole only opens to an extradimensional space while open and contains only a non-dimensional space, so as long as you do not open it inside a rope trick, you are safe. In the event you open a portable hole in a rope trick the note is not backed by any particular rules, and its up to the DM to decide the consequences.

These rules are admittedly odd and mildly confusing.
Seeker95
10-17-07, 02:52 PM The only actual rules reference is in regard to a portable hole and a bag of holding.

If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.

Previous editions made more generic reference, but failed to explain what actually happened.
ArcTan
10-17-07, 02:59 PM Since the SRD says *something* bad *might* happen if you take a BoH into a rope trick but never says what, I'd just say that nothing happens by default the first few times you do it (who wants to punish players that badly for using rope trick?) but if you keep on doing it -- say the party becomes one of those parties that relies on rope trick to give them a safe place to camp every night -- eventually you start running into a random chance of a BoH + portable hole-type explosion.
Kouk
10-17-07, 05:17 PM Since the SRD says *something* bad *might* happen if you take a BoH into a rope trick but never says what, I'd just say that nothing happens by default the first few times you do it (who wants to punish players that badly for using rope trick?) but if you keep on doing it -- say the party becomes one of those parties that relies on rope trick to give them a safe place to camp every night -- eventually you start running into a random chance of a BoH + portable hole-type explosion.

Rather than just jumping straight to the TPK, maybe just have a few extraplanar creatures show up in the Rope Trick with them, like Ethereal Filchers or Githyanki that are P.O.'d at being sucked there.

I think the rule mainly exists just so you don't infinitely stack Bags of Holding inside other Bags of Holding or Portable Holes to carry things like entire lakes that only "weigh" 15 pounds.

I don't think it is worth considering all dimensional spaces to be explosions waiting to happen if you bring a Bag of Holding into them, it just isn't worth the distinction (it isn't being used to hold more things for instance, just a hideaway for players).

Give the multiverse a bit more credit for stability, there have been some improvements since 2nd edition, and fewer ASODs (Astral Sunderings of Death) :P.
Nadaka
10-17-07, 09:41 PM Since the SRD says *something* bad *might* happen if you take a BoH into a rope trick but never says what, I'd just say that nothing happens by default the first few times you do it (who wants to punish players that badly for using rope trick?) but if you keep on doing it -- say the party becomes one of those parties that relies on rope trick to give them a safe place to camp every night -- eventually you start running into a random chance of a BoH + portable hole-type explosion.

Non-dimensional spaces are never mentioned as dangerous when interacting with one another. Only trans-dimensional spaces. The BoH is never extra-dimensional, only non-dimensional. It is always safe to place BoH within one another or within a rope trick.

However placing one through the trans-dimensional opening in a portable hole is not a good idea. Likwise, there is no telling what will happen if you open a portable hole in a rope trick (because the act of opening it is trans-dimensional, the space inside is non-dimensional). But it is safe to bring it in a rope trick (this last part may be pushing it, the rules are unclear).

Interesting Questions:
What happens when you cast rope trick inside another rope trick, and the duration of the first expires?
What happens when you imprison (the spell) someone inside a rope trick, and the duration of the rope trick expires?
ArcTan
10-17-07, 10:02 PM Non-dimensional spaces are never mentioned as dangerous when interacting with one another. Only trans-dimensional spaces. The BoH is never extra-dimensional, only non-dimensional. It is always safe to place BoH within one another or within a rope trick.

Those two words -- "nondimensional" and "transdimensional" (I think you mean "extradimensional") -- are not actually defined as opposites. BoHs are referred to as a "nondimensional" space in their own description and as an "interdimensional" space in dispel magic and as "extradimensional" elsewhere.

People keep trying to make it so that "nondimensional" and "extradimensional" have clear, opposed meanings, but I don't think they do.

What happens when you cast rope trick inside another rope trick, and the duration of the first expires?

The gateway to the second rope trick, being a thing inside the first rope trick, is dropped out when the first rope trick expires.

What happens when you imprison (the spell) someone inside a rope trick, and the duration of the rope trick expires?

You have to cast freedom at the site of the original rope trick. (The person himself, of course, is "deep beneath the earth".)
Bopple
10-18-07, 01:27 AM According to FAQ, nothing happens.
FrostWolf
10-18-07, 04:05 AM Now what happens if we throw a handy Haversack into the mix?:P :D
Kouk
10-18-07, 04:46 AM Now what happens if we throw a handy Haversack into the mix?:P :D

Well where do you think Tarrasques come from?
FrostWolf
10-18-07, 07:05 AM Well where do you think Tarrasques come from?

NOOOOOOOOOO! Unless I can bond it as my familiar!

But honestly, Would it be safe to take my HHH into a rope trick?
DracoPhoenix
10-18-07, 07:26 AM Ever get the feeling that this is the same misconception as Maximise & empower spell?

The exception to stacking is outline (and not even as ~"as with all metamagics, effects do not stack, for example..."), and the rest are assumed to stack.

People see the exception and automatically read in something similar to the above. Causing them to treat the exception as the rule.

(*Wonders if these are the same people who argue RAW over RAI* :))
mvincent
10-18-07, 01:14 PM From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a):
"The rope trick spell description makes a passing mention of "hazards" associated with placing one extradimensional space inside another, but gives no details. (See the rope trick excerpt.)

I recommend that you ignore this reference. Your campaign won't be improved if rope trick effects implode when someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside. A Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion should likewise prove benign if someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside."

From the 3.0 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):
“Note you can freely go plane hopping with portable holes, bags of holding, and the like. Spells that produce their own extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, pose no danger to occupants who may be using portable holes, bags of holding, and the like."

From the 2ed guide to High-level campaigns, section on magic items:
"Extradimensional Spaces: These items tend to produce spectacular effects when one is placed within another. The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox†, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole, and pouch of accessibility. The following spells produce extradimensional spaces: extradimensional pocket†, Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion, and rope trick.

In most instances, placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane, casting both the items and their contents through the rift. The items and anything contained within them are scattered randomly in the infinite depths of the Astral Plane."
ArcTan
10-18-07, 02:48 PM According to FAQ, nothing happens.

The FAQ is boring.

At least use Kouk's idea for attracting Ethereal Filchers or whatnot.
Bopple
10-18-07, 11:50 PM The FAQ is boring.

At least use Kouk's idea for attracting Ethereal Filchers or whatnot.
How predictable you are. :P
ArcTan
10-18-07, 11:51 PM How predictable you are. :P

Of course I'm predictable. I follow what the rules in the Errata say, which are that only the Errata is allowed to change primary source material. So when the FAQ says something that contradicts or downplays something in the main text, I ignore the FAQ.

Everyone should ignore the FAQ, or at least take the FAQ as merely another *opinion* rather than as rules.
Bopple
10-19-07, 12:55 AM LOL. Have I said anything like this FAQ should overrule anything or you are arrogant with your opinion, this time?
I merely gave an 'opinion' to the OP.
Then you tried to revenge yourself out of childish grudge originated from another thread.
Of course you would say it's just you are expressing your opinion about mine and only coincidental. :P
ArcTan
10-19-07, 02:17 AM I'm not "revenging myself", I'm just restating my opinion.

I'm not blind to the fact that you're baiting me, of course.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MtnManiacX 10-17-07, 01:47 PM	If you can't take an extradimensional space (bag of holding) into another (rope trick), what do you do with your bag if you wanna use rope trick??
vorpo 10-17-07, 02:20 PM	If you can't take an extradimensional space (bag of holding) into another (rope trick), what do you do with your bag if you wanna use rope trick?? I'd say the rules were meant to deal with short-lived extradimensions. Spells like Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion creates extradimensions and it would be pointless to leave your bag of holding outside the entrance. I'd rule that any extradimensions lasting longer than an hr is considered NOT short-lived.
Nadaka 10-17-07, 02:49 PM	The rules exist only for the interaction of bags of holding and portable holes. It is possible to safely bring either into a rope trick or even place bags of holding within one another and portable holes within one another. Bag of Holding: This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: Its inside is larger than its outside dimensions. Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag’s contents, depend on the bag’s type, as shown on the table below. Bag Bag Weight Contents Weight Limit Contents Volume Limit Market Price Type I 15 lb. 250 lb. 30 cu. ft. 2,500 gp Type II 25 lb. 500 lb. 70 cu. ft. 5,000 gp Type III 35 lb. 1,000 lb. 150 cu. ft. 7,400 gp Type IV 60 lb. 1,500 lb. 250 cu. ft. 10,000 gp If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever. If a bag of holding is turned inside out, its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again. If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action—unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action. If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest. Rope Trick Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: One touched piece of rope from 5 ft. to 30 ft. long Duration: 1 hour/level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No When this spell is cast upon a piece of rope from 5 to 30 feet long, one end of the rope rises into the air until the whole rope hangs perpendicular to the ground, as if affixed at the upper end. The upper end is, in fact, fastened to an extradimensional space that is outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces (“planes”). Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. The space holds as many as eight creatures (of any size). Creatures in the space can pull the rope up into the space, making the rope “disappear.” In that case, the rope counts as one of the eight creatures that can fit in the space. The rope can support up to 16,000 pounds. A weight greater than that can pull the rope free. Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it. Those in the extradimensional space can see out of it as if a 3-foot-by- 5-foot window were centered on the rope. The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space. Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one. Material Component: Powdered corn extract and a twisted loop of parchment. Portable Hole: A portable hole is a circle of cloth spun from the webs of a phase spider interwoven with strands of ether and beams of starlight. When opened fully, a portable hole is 6 feet in diameter, but it can be folded up to be as small as a pocket handkerchief. When spread upon any surface, it causes an extradimensional space 10 feet deep to come into being. This hole can be picked up from inside or out by simply taking hold of the edges of the cloth and folding it up. Either way, the entrance disappears, but anything inside the hole remains. The only air in the hole is that which enters when the hole is opened. It contains enough air to supply one Medium creature or two Small creatures for 10 minutes. The cloth does not accumulate weight even if its hole is filled. Each portable hole opens on its own particular nondimensional space. If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in that place. Both the bag and the cloth are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, the portable hole and bag of holding being destroyed in the process. Moderate conjuration; CL 12th; Craft Wondrous Item, plane shift; Price 20,000 gp. A bag of holding contains a non-dimensional space, no conflict with rope trick. A portable hole only opens to an extradimensional space while open and contains only a non-dimensional space, so as long as you do not open it inside a rope trick, you are safe. In the event you open a portable hole in a rope trick the note is not backed by any particular rules, and its up to the DM to decide the consequences. These rules are admittedly odd and mildly confusing.
Seeker95 10-17-07, 02:52 PM	The only actual rules reference is in regard to a portable hole and a bag of holding. If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: The hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process. Previous editions made more generic reference, but failed to explain what actually happened.
ArcTan 10-17-07, 02:59 PM	Since the SRD says something bad might happen if you take a BoH into a rope trick but never says what, I'd just say that nothing happens by default the first few times you do it (who wants to punish players that badly for using rope trick?) but if you keep on doing it -- say the party becomes one of those parties that relies on rope trick to give them a safe place to camp every night -- eventually you start running into a random chance of a BoH + portable hole-type explosion.
Kouk 10-17-07, 05:17 PM	Since the SRD says something bad might happen if you take a BoH into a rope trick but never says what, I'd just say that nothing happens by default the first few times you do it (who wants to punish players that badly for using rope trick?) but if you keep on doing it -- say the party becomes one of those parties that relies on rope trick to give them a safe place to camp every night -- eventually you start running into a random chance of a BoH + portable hole-type explosion. Rather than just jumping straight to the TPK, maybe just have a few extraplanar creatures show up in the Rope Trick with them, like Ethereal Filchers or Githyanki that are P.O.'d at being sucked there. I think the rule mainly exists just so you don't infinitely stack Bags of Holding inside other Bags of Holding or Portable Holes to carry things like entire lakes that only "weigh" 15 pounds. I don't think it is worth considering all dimensional spaces to be explosions waiting to happen if you bring a Bag of Holding into them, it just isn't worth the distinction (it isn't being used to hold more things for instance, just a hideaway for players). Give the multiverse a bit more credit for stability, there have been some improvements since 2nd edition, and fewer ASODs (Astral Sunderings of Death) :P.
Nadaka 10-17-07, 09:41 PM	Since the SRD says something bad might happen if you take a BoH into a rope trick but never says what, I'd just say that nothing happens by default the first few times you do it (who wants to punish players that badly for using rope trick?) but if you keep on doing it -- say the party becomes one of those parties that relies on rope trick to give them a safe place to camp every night -- eventually you start running into a random chance of a BoH + portable hole-type explosion. Non-dimensional spaces are never mentioned as dangerous when interacting with one another. Only trans-dimensional spaces. The BoH is never extra-dimensional, only non-dimensional. It is always safe to place BoH within one another or within a rope trick. However placing one through the trans-dimensional opening in a portable hole is not a good idea. Likwise, there is no telling what will happen if you open a portable hole in a rope trick (because the act of opening it is trans-dimensional, the space inside is non-dimensional). But it is safe to bring it in a rope trick (this last part may be pushing it, the rules are unclear). Interesting Questions: What happens when you cast rope trick inside another rope trick, and the duration of the first expires? What happens when you imprison (the spell) someone inside a rope trick, and the duration of the rope trick expires?
ArcTan 10-17-07, 10:02 PM	Non-dimensional spaces are never mentioned as dangerous when interacting with one another. Only trans-dimensional spaces. The BoH is never extra-dimensional, only non-dimensional. It is always safe to place BoH within one another or within a rope trick. Those two words -- "nondimensional" and "transdimensional" (I think you mean "extradimensional") -- are not actually defined as opposites. BoHs are referred to as a "nondimensional" space in their own description and as an "interdimensional" space in dispel magic and as "extradimensional" elsewhere. People keep trying to make it so that "nondimensional" and "extradimensional" have clear, opposed meanings, but I don't think they do. What happens when you cast rope trick inside another rope trick, and the duration of the first expires? The gateway to the second rope trick, being a thing inside the first rope trick, is dropped out when the first rope trick expires. What happens when you imprison (the spell) someone inside a rope trick, and the duration of the rope trick expires? You have to cast freedom at the site of the original rope trick. (The person himself, of course, is "deep beneath the earth".)
Bopple 10-18-07, 01:27 AM	According to FAQ, nothing happens.
FrostWolf 10-18-07, 04:05 AM	Now what happens if we throw a handy Haversack into the mix?:P :D
Kouk 10-18-07, 04:46 AM	Now what happens if we throw a handy Haversack into the mix?:P :D Well where do you think Tarrasques come from?
FrostWolf 10-18-07, 07:05 AM	Well where do you think Tarrasques come from? NOOOOOOOOOO! Unless I can bond it as my familiar! But honestly, Would it be safe to take my HHH into a rope trick?
DracoPhoenix 10-18-07, 07:26 AM	Ever get the feeling that this is the same misconception as Maximise & empower spell? The exception to stacking is outline (and not even as ~"as with all metamagics, effects do not stack, for example..."), and the rest are assumed to stack. People see the exception and automatically read in something similar to the above. Causing them to treat the exception as the rule. (Wonders if these are the same people who argue RAW over RAI :))
mvincent 10-18-07, 01:14 PM	From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a): "The rope trick spell description makes a passing mention of "hazards" associated with placing one extradimensional space inside another, but gives no details. (See the rope trick excerpt.) I recommend that you ignore this reference. Your campaign won't be improved if rope trick effects implode when someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside. A Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion should likewise prove benign if someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside." From the 3.0 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a): “Note you can freely go plane hopping with portable holes, bags of holding, and the like. Spells that produce their own extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, pose no danger to occupants who may be using portable holes, bags of holding, and the like." From the 2ed guide to High-level campaigns, section on magic items: "Extradimensional Spaces: These items tend to produce spectacular effects when one is placed within another. The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox†, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole, and pouch of accessibility. The following spells produce extradimensional spaces: extradimensional pocket†, Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion, and rope trick. In most instances, placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane, casting both the items and their contents through the rift. The items and anything contained within them are scattered randomly in the infinite depths of the Astral Plane."
ArcTan 10-18-07, 02:48 PM	According to FAQ, nothing happens. The FAQ is boring. At least use Kouk's idea for attracting Ethereal Filchers or whatnot.
Bopple 10-18-07, 11:50 PM	The FAQ is boring. At least use Kouk's idea for attracting Ethereal Filchers or whatnot. How predictable you are. :P
ArcTan 10-18-07, 11:51 PM	How predictable you are. :P Of course I'm predictable. I follow what the rules in the Errata say, which are that only the Errata is allowed to change primary source material. So when the FAQ says something that contradicts or downplays something in the main text, I ignore the FAQ. Everyone should ignore the FAQ, or at least take the FAQ as merely another opinion rather than as rules.
Bopple 10-19-07, 12:55 AM	LOL. Have I said anything like this FAQ should overrule anything or you are arrogant with your opinion, this time? I merely gave an 'opinion' to the OP. Then you tried to revenge yourself out of childish grudge originated from another thread. Of course you would say it's just you are expressing your opinion about mine and only coincidental. :P
ArcTan 10-19-07, 02:17 AM	I'm not "revenging myself", I'm just restating my opinion. I'm not blind to the fact that you're baiting me, of course.