bag of holes and portable holding [Archive] - Wizards Community

bag of holes and portable holding [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mortisum
11-12-07, 09:41 AM okay so i was looking through my dmg the other day just browsing the wonderours item pages, when i decided to read bag of holding and portable hole. now i remembered this from awhile ago but i had a conversation with my friend who played a lot of 2nd ed a lot more then i have. and he said you could not put a bag of holding in a bag of holding or a portable hole in a portable hole. well in the dmg for 3.5 it just says no portable hole in bag of holding and vica versa. i just wanted to make sure if there was an errata on this or not. if not then i will be the happiest gnome alive!
Lokiyn
11-12-07, 11:10 AM There used to be a whole class of Nondimensional items versus extradimensional items with a bunch of interaction rules (for example there used to be nondimensional figurines that because of the quirky nondimensional rules would explode if you used any form of astral travel)

A lot of that cut out, But basically the end result is that there is no interaction between storage items of the same type anymore.

(so yes you can technically stack Bags of holding, or stack portable holes)
risner
11-12-07, 11:34 AM Either the FAQ or the RotG suggests all extra dimensional spaces should blow up when put in another.

So BoH in a BoH, boom.
BoH in a PH, boom.
BoH in a HHH, boom.

etc.

that makes sense

Your DM is free to play it any way he likes.
Mortisum
11-12-07, 01:06 PM i was just curious because in the campaign im playing that would be fun for me to do. or for the game im dming it would be intresting for my players to do.
groveborn
11-12-07, 01:15 PM I like to add the existing weight and dimensions one bag or hole is holding and add it to the limit of anything you stack it with, thus you can't put several type 4 bags in one type 1. You could still put a few bags in each other, it's just that they don't allow more storage.

This isn't so much a rule as a limitation I enact.
Mortisum
11-12-07, 02:16 PM aha sir but the bag is only 2x4 in dimensions itself therefore i say i like pizza and gravey with my steaks
Oliver D'Argent
11-12-07, 11:13 PM Either the FAQ or the RotG suggests all extra dimensional spaces should blow up when put in another.

So BoH in a BoH, boom.
BoH in a PH, boom.
BoH in a HHH, boom.

etc.

that makes sense

Your DM is free to play it any way he likes.

According to the item descriptions in the DMG, a Bag of Holding is a nondimensional space, while a Portable Hole is an extradimensional space.

The item descriptions only mention negative reactions when the two different types of spaces interact - no negative reaction is mentioned in the case of two or more of the same type of space interacting.

It is, therefore, entirely reasonable to assume that multiple Bags of Holding can be placed inside each other and that multiple Portable Holes can be placed inside each other with no negative effects.
Knightstar
11-12-07, 11:51 PM and how would either of those react to rope trick? also would there be an instant reaction (as soon as the items entered the space) or only when they tried to open and get something from the items?
Oliver D'Argent
11-13-07, 07:46 AM That spell notes that creating an extradimensional space inside another or taking an extradimensional space inside an existing one is hazardous, but provides no information as to why it is hazardous or what the effect is.

It is entirely possible that the author was thinking of the descriptions of the Bag of Holding and the Portable Hole and either misspoke or was going by an earlier version.

Since the effect of Rope Trick is described as an extradimensional space, it is not unreasonable to assume that taking a Bag of Holding inside one would be a bad thing.
risner
11-13-07, 09:52 AM Since the effect of Rope Trick is described as an extradimensional space, it is not unreasonable to assume that taking a Bag of Holding inside one would be a bad thing.

Which is the stance the FAQ (or RotG I can't remember which) takes on the issue. It is also the one that makes the most sense and require the least amount of fudging reality (well, game reality.)
mvincent
11-13-07, 05:05 PM There used to be a whole class of Nondimensional items versus extradimensional items When? I know that both terms were used interchangeably (i.e. both were used to describe a portable hole in 3.0 and 3.5).
mvincent
11-13-07, 05:09 PM Which is the stance the FAQ (or RotG I can't remember which) takes on the issue.Despite being written by the same person, they both say different things:
From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a):
"One bag of holding can be placed safely inside another (of course, the first bag's weight counts against what the second bag can hold). Likewise, one portable hole can be placed safely inside another.

A bag of holding placed inside a portable hole, however, creates a rift to the Astral Plane. (See the bag of holding excerpt.) Oddly enough, objects aren't drawn through the gate."

From the 3.0 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):
“Putting one bag of holding within another is just like putting the bag into a portable hole. Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled.

For an even earlier reference - from the 2ed guide to High-level campaigns, section on magic items:
"Extradimensional Spaces: These items tend to produce spectacular effects when one is placed within another. The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox†, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole, and pouch of accessibility. The following spells produce extradimensional spaces: extradimensional pocket†, Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion, and rope trick.

In most instances, placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane, casting both the items and their contents through the rift. The items and anything contained within them are scattered randomly in the infinite depths of the Astral Plane."
mvincent
11-13-07, 05:12 PM ow would either of those react to rope trick?From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a):
"the rope trick and Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion both create extradimensional spaces. The rope trick spell description makes a passing mention of "hazards" associated with placing one extradimensional space inside another, but gives no details. (See the rope trick excerpt.)

I recommend that you ignore this reference. Your campaign won't be improved if rope trick effects implode when someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside. A Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion should likewise prove benign if someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside."

From the 3.0 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):
“you can freely go plane hopping with portable holes, bags of holding, and the like. Spells that produce their own extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, pose no danger to occupants who may be using portable holes, bags of holding, and the like."
mvincent
11-13-07, 05:14 PM According to the item descriptions in the DMG, a Bag of Holding is a nondimensional space, while a Portable Hole is an extradimensional space.Both terms are actually used to describe a portable hole. D&D uses them interchangeably.
Lokiyn
11-13-07, 09:34 PM When? I know that both terms were used interchangeably (i.e. both were used to describe a portable hole in 3.0 and 3.5).

2e up till the start of 3e

Non was the prefix for items who generated astral pockets, these items functioned identically, but also continued to function on the outer planes, but did not work on the inner planes

Extra wsa the prefix for items that generated ethereal pockets, they worked on the inner planes and the material, but not on the astral or outer planes.

There used to be many Non items, for example the belt of many pockets was originally nonDimensional. However when the conversion to 3e had the ethereal expand to cover the outer planes and the astral expand to cover the inner planes, such distinctions became meaningless.

Although i occasionally debate with myself bringing back the non dimensional figurines that react explosively with Teleportation effects, for home games.
mvincent
11-13-07, 10:53 PM 2e up till the start of 3e

Non was the prefix for items who generated astral pockets, these items functioned identically, but also continued to function on the outer planes, but did not work on the inner planes

Extra wsa the prefix for items that generated ethereal pockets, they worked on the inner planes and the material, but not on the astral or outer planes.

There used to be many Non items, for example the belt of many pockets was originally nonDimensional. However when the conversion to 3e had the ethereal expand to cover the outer planes and the astral expand to cover the inner planes, such distinctions became meaningless.Interesting: I enjoy learning new things about this (thanks!). Still, bags of holding, portable holes and all the other things I've seen in 3.0+ appear to be of the same type, as indicated by the above mentioned 2ed rules:
"The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole, and pouch of accessibility. The following spells produce extradimensional spaces: extradimensional pocket, Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion, and rope trick."
Beckettvampire
11-14-07, 02:22 AM In my DMG it says that if you put a Bag of Holding inside another Bag of Holding it rips the fabric of the planer boundries, creating a hole that sucks everything within 10ft into a random location in the Astral Plane. Like the last two sentences under Bag of Holding.
dawnbringer
11-14-07, 08:07 AM So what happens if you do it while ON the astral plane? ;)
Mortisum
11-14-07, 10:36 AM In my DMG it says that if you put a Bag of Holding inside another Bag of Holding it rips the fabric of the planer boundries, creating a hole that sucks everything within 10ft into a random location in the Astral Plane. Like the last two sentences under Bag of Holding.
which dmg edition is that because mine just tells me not to put boh inside of a ph and vica versa
mvincent
11-14-07, 12:07 PM In my DMG it says that if you put a Bag of Holding inside another Bag of Holding it rips the fabric of the planer boundries*Presto!*... I've just now subtly altered your DMG so that it no longer says that. Go check. Really.
Beckettvampire
11-14-07, 04:49 PM which dmg edition is that because mine just tells me not to put boh inside of a ph and vica versa

DMG 3.5 normal and limited ed.
pg 248

If a bag of Holding is placed in a portable hole (pg 264), a rift in the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and Hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed in a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: the Hole, the bag, and and creatures within 10ft radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.
Beckettvampire
11-14-07, 04:52 PM Apologies, I see the mistake. I could have sworn that the last sentence said place a bag of holding into another bag of holding.
Scion of Coldshard
11-14-07, 05:36 PM So what happens if you do it while ON the astral plane? ;)

An angel gets its wings.
Toki_Wartooth
11-14-07, 05:49 PM I could have sworn that the last sentence said place a bag of holding into another bag of holding.We shouldn't rule out the possibility that mvincent recently altered it via dark means.
Oliver D'Argent
11-14-07, 11:06 PM Both terms are actually used to describe a portable hole. D&D uses them interchangeably.

Hmm. Now that I re-read the Portable Hole description, I see that it does use both terms - but that could easily be a result of poor editing, rather than an intent for the terms to be considered interchangeable.

Since the only penalties listed are for placing a Bag of Holding within a Portable Hole or vice versa, it seems reasonable to me to assume that if there was an intended penalty for placing one Bag of Holding within another or one Portable Hole within another, it would have been mentioned in the item descriptions.
mvincent
11-15-07, 12:18 AM Hmm. Now that I re-read the Portable Hole description, I see that it does use both terms - but that could easily be a result of poor editing, rather than an intent for the terms to be considered interchangeable.That is possible, but (given the 2nd ed. clarifications above) it would still not support your initial premise that 'splodin happens because the two types are mixed.
ArcTan
11-15-07, 12:27 AM So what happens if you do it while ON the astral plane? ;)

It makes a hole in the Astral Plane leading to another part of the Astral Plane. (The Astral Plane is funny like that.)
navar100
11-15-07, 02:24 AM In my DM's campaigns over the years, even before I joined, players would have their character put a bag of holding into a bag of holding on purpose to suck the enemy into the Astral Plane. Our rogue did it last campaign at a very climactic battle. The DM was taken by surprise. He was fine with it for the sake of that adventure, but it has been decreed by the chief god of the pantheon that such a thing is from now on Verboten. Anyone doing such a thing again will face Divine Wrath. All clerics of all deities know this. All clerics were instructed to spread the word. Everyone in the world knows this.
:D
ArcTan
11-15-07, 02:30 AM Depending on how big the BBEG is, this doesn't necessarily strand him. Plane shift reliably takes you back from the Astral to the Material. So does simply looking for a color pool, if you're willful enough to navigate the Astral (it's a plane of thought, remember, not really material, and responds to will rather than actual absolute direction) and strong enough to survive there.

The main reason bags of holding and their contents are "lost forever" is that they're not conscious beings and incapable of wanting or trying to escape.
Oliver D'Argent
11-15-07, 08:07 AM That is possible, but (given the 2nd ed. clarifications above) it would still not support your initial premise that 'splodin happens because the two types are mixed.

:confused:

The item descriptions say that "'splodin happens" when the two types are mixed. I am disputing your initial premise - that "'splodin happens" when same types are mixed.

While I generally find the FAQ useful, in this instance it does not seem consistent with what the rules actually say (and it appears you are quoting the 3.0 FAQ, rather than the 3.5).
Mortisum
11-15-07, 11:50 AM i am so glad i brought this question to light because i know alot of people were still assuming the same thing applied from 2nd... i didnt realize the confusion until i started dming for 3.5 and was reading about the magical items. i really do appreciate all the insight into this.
mvincent
11-15-07, 12:57 PM The item descriptions say that "'splodin happens" when the two types are mixed.It says it happens when BoH is mixed with PH, but does not say anything about combining 'nondimensional' with 'extradimensional' (which is the combo you were referring to earlier)

I am disputing your initial premise - that "'splodin happens" when same types are mixed.1) Both BoH and PH are described using the same term in 3.0 and 3.5 (i.e. same type, but exploding happens).
2) Your assertion that this was possibly a typo seems tenuous, but (if entertained) causes us to look back at 2nd ed. for previous intent and precedence.
3) The 2nd ed. rules specifically refer to BoH and PH as 'extradimensional' (i.e. same type), and says that the reaction happens when mixing 'extradimensional' (i.e. same type) objects. from 2nd ed.:
"The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole"
"placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane"

While I generally find the FAQ useful, in this instance it does not seem consistent with what the rules actually sayI agree, but this seems a non-sequitur to the extradimensional/nondimensional discussion. I gather you believed we were discussing something else? If so, can we safely say that you no longer put stock in the "combining 'nondimensional' with 'extradimensional' is what causes the explosion" premise?

Still, while the core rules did not detail a say, BoH in BoH mix, such a case being a hazard was still possibly within the writer's intent (especially given the precedence of earlier editions).

it appears you are quoting the 3.0 FAQ, rather than the 3.5).Yes. However, 3.0 FAQ clarifications are actually still valid (unless contradicted by new rules or somesuch).

Regardless: I provided several different rulings on this topic (and a DM could choose any he desired)... that seems as unbiased as one could be on a topic... and I wasn't even debating this particular topic :)
1 ton ghost
11-15-07, 03:36 PM unless you're trying to make a void weapon, let sleeping giants lie.
why would you want to mix n' match anyway?

we paid this consideration in a Faerun campaign: Gondar MysTheurge took one for the team and bought a Portable Hole. frequently, for mercantile exploits and mobility, Teleport was employed to capitalize on the massive space. ie)buy spice cheap in Chult, sell it for a fortune way North, etc. frequently, the risk was offset by pre'port Scry to familiarize caster w/ target area and this was never performed in combat. too risky.
well, for those that didn't "fit" given the CL and # of bodies transported, they'd go "in the hole" pre flight. this way, more passengers travel than the spell would allow traditionally. i was a littled pi$$ed they found a loophole in Teleport to exploit.
but...i smelled a rat. g/f's rogue, another Ftr, Hell, eventually most of them got HH Haversack's (every PC needs one) and i thought, "ah ha...you're all gonna' die." but, to be fair, i had the Theurge ('port caster and PH owner) make a Know.Planar roll to see if he realized this discrepancy beforehand.
he did and it ultimately became dogma to "check your luggage" before the flight so to speak. the airpocket wasn't an issue really either given many pile in, Move Action to close Hole, Move Action to pocket it, Standard to cast Teleport, and 2 more Moves to retrieve and open. so many technicalities to keep in hand...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mortisum 11-12-07, 09:41 AM	okay so i was looking through my dmg the other day just browsing the wonderours item pages, when i decided to read bag of holding and portable hole. now i remembered this from awhile ago but i had a conversation with my friend who played a lot of 2nd ed a lot more then i have. and he said you could not put a bag of holding in a bag of holding or a portable hole in a portable hole. well in the dmg for 3.5 it just says no portable hole in bag of holding and vica versa. i just wanted to make sure if there was an errata on this or not. if not then i will be the happiest gnome alive!
Lokiyn 11-12-07, 11:10 AM	There used to be a whole class of Nondimensional items versus extradimensional items with a bunch of interaction rules (for example there used to be nondimensional figurines that because of the quirky nondimensional rules would explode if you used any form of astral travel) A lot of that cut out, But basically the end result is that there is no interaction between storage items of the same type anymore. (so yes you can technically stack Bags of holding, or stack portable holes)
risner 11-12-07, 11:34 AM	Either the FAQ or the RotG suggests all extra dimensional spaces should blow up when put in another. So BoH in a BoH, boom. BoH in a PH, boom. BoH in a HHH, boom. etc. that makes sense Your DM is free to play it any way he likes.
Mortisum 11-12-07, 01:06 PM	i was just curious because in the campaign im playing that would be fun for me to do. or for the game im dming it would be intresting for my players to do.
groveborn 11-12-07, 01:15 PM	I like to add the existing weight and dimensions one bag or hole is holding and add it to the limit of anything you stack it with, thus you can't put several type 4 bags in one type 1. You could still put a few bags in each other, it's just that they don't allow more storage. This isn't so much a rule as a limitation I enact.
Mortisum 11-12-07, 02:16 PM	aha sir but the bag is only 2x4 in dimensions itself therefore i say i like pizza and gravey with my steaks
Oliver D'Argent 11-12-07, 11:13 PM	Either the FAQ or the RotG suggests all extra dimensional spaces should blow up when put in another. So BoH in a BoH, boom. BoH in a PH, boom. BoH in a HHH, boom. etc. that makes sense Your DM is free to play it any way he likes. According to the item descriptions in the DMG, a Bag of Holding is a nondimensional space, while a Portable Hole is an extradimensional space. The item descriptions only mention negative reactions when the two different types of spaces interact - no negative reaction is mentioned in the case of two or more of the same type of space interacting. It is, therefore, entirely reasonable to assume that multiple Bags of Holding can be placed inside each other and that multiple Portable Holes can be placed inside each other with no negative effects.
Knightstar 11-12-07, 11:51 PM	and how would either of those react to rope trick? also would there be an instant reaction (as soon as the items entered the space) or only when they tried to open and get something from the items?
Oliver D'Argent 11-13-07, 07:46 AM	That spell notes that creating an extradimensional space inside another or taking an extradimensional space inside an existing one is hazardous, but provides no information as to why it is hazardous or what the effect is. It is entirely possible that the author was thinking of the descriptions of the Bag of Holding and the Portable Hole and either misspoke or was going by an earlier version. Since the effect of Rope Trick is described as an extradimensional space, it is not unreasonable to assume that taking a Bag of Holding inside one would be a bad thing.
risner 11-13-07, 09:52 AM	Since the effect of Rope Trick is described as an extradimensional space, it is not unreasonable to assume that taking a Bag of Holding inside one would be a bad thing. Which is the stance the FAQ (or RotG I can't remember which) takes on the issue. It is also the one that makes the most sense and require the least amount of fudging reality (well, game reality.)
mvincent 11-13-07, 05:05 PM	There used to be a whole class of Nondimensional items versus extradimensional items When? I know that both terms were used interchangeably (i.e. both were used to describe a portable hole in 3.0 and 3.5).
mvincent 11-13-07, 05:09 PM	Which is the stance the FAQ (or RotG I can't remember which) takes on the issue.Despite being written by the same person, they both say different things: From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a): "One bag of holding can be placed safely inside another (of course, the first bag's weight counts against what the second bag can hold). Likewise, one portable hole can be placed safely inside another. A bag of holding placed inside a portable hole, however, creates a rift to the Astral Plane. (See the bag of holding excerpt.) Oddly enough, objects aren't drawn through the gate." From the 3.0 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a): “Putting one bag of holding within another is just like putting the bag into a portable hole. Items that function like bags of holding, such as Heward’s handy haversacks, cause the same mishaps when mishandled. For an even earlier reference - from the 2ed guide to High-level campaigns, section on magic items: "Extradimensional Spaces: These items tend to produce spectacular effects when one is placed within another. The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox†, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole, and pouch of accessibility. The following spells produce extradimensional spaces: extradimensional pocket†, Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion, and rope trick. In most instances, placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane, casting both the items and their contents through the rift. The items and anything contained within them are scattered randomly in the infinite depths of the Astral Plane."
mvincent 11-13-07, 05:12 PM	ow would either of those react to rope trick?From the Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20051101a): "the rope trick and Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion both create extradimensional spaces. The rope trick spell description makes a passing mention of "hazards" associated with placing one extradimensional space inside another, but gives no details. (See the rope trick excerpt.) I recommend that you ignore this reference. Your campaign won't be improved if rope trick effects implode when someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside. A Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion should likewise prove benign if someone carries a bag of holding or portable hole inside." From the 3.0 FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a): “you can freely go plane hopping with portable holes, bags of holding, and the like. Spells that produce their own extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, pose no danger to occupants who may be using portable holes, bags of holding, and the like."
mvincent 11-13-07, 05:14 PM	According to the item descriptions in the DMG, a Bag of Holding is a nondimensional space, while a Portable Hole is an extradimensional space.Both terms are actually used to describe a portable hole. D&D uses them interchangeably.
Lokiyn 11-13-07, 09:34 PM	When? I know that both terms were used interchangeably (i.e. both were used to describe a portable hole in 3.0 and 3.5). 2e up till the start of 3e Non was the prefix for items who generated astral pockets, these items functioned identically, but also continued to function on the outer planes, but did not work on the inner planes Extra wsa the prefix for items that generated ethereal pockets, they worked on the inner planes and the material, but not on the astral or outer planes. There used to be many Non items, for example the belt of many pockets was originally nonDimensional. However when the conversion to 3e had the ethereal expand to cover the outer planes and the astral expand to cover the inner planes, such distinctions became meaningless. Although i occasionally debate with myself bringing back the non dimensional figurines that react explosively with Teleportation effects, for home games.
mvincent 11-13-07, 10:53 PM	2e up till the start of 3e Non was the prefix for items who generated astral pockets, these items functioned identically, but also continued to function on the outer planes, but did not work on the inner planes Extra wsa the prefix for items that generated ethereal pockets, they worked on the inner planes and the material, but not on the astral or outer planes. There used to be many Non items, for example the belt of many pockets was originally nonDimensional. However when the conversion to 3e had the ethereal expand to cover the outer planes and the astral expand to cover the inner planes, such distinctions became meaningless.Interesting: I enjoy learning new things about this (thanks!). Still, bags of holding, portable holes and all the other things I've seen in 3.0+ appear to be of the same type, as indicated by the above mentioned 2ed rules: "The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole, and pouch of accessibility. The following spells produce extradimensional spaces: extradimensional pocket, Mordenkainen’s magnificent mansion, and rope trick."
Beckettvampire 11-14-07, 02:22 AM	In my DMG it says that if you put a Bag of Holding inside another Bag of Holding it rips the fabric of the planer boundries, creating a hole that sucks everything within 10ft into a random location in the Astral Plane. Like the last two sentences under Bag of Holding.
dawnbringer 11-14-07, 08:07 AM	So what happens if you do it while ON the astral plane? ;)
Mortisum 11-14-07, 10:36 AM	In my DMG it says that if you put a Bag of Holding inside another Bag of Holding it rips the fabric of the planer boundries, creating a hole that sucks everything within 10ft into a random location in the Astral Plane. Like the last two sentences under Bag of Holding. which dmg edition is that because mine just tells me not to put boh inside of a ph and vica versa
mvincent 11-14-07, 12:07 PM	In my DMG it says that if you put a Bag of Holding inside another Bag of Holding it rips the fabric of the planer boundriesPresto!... I've just now subtly altered your DMG so that it no longer says that. Go check. Really.
Beckettvampire 11-14-07, 04:49 PM	which dmg edition is that because mine just tells me not to put boh inside of a ph and vica versa DMG 3.5 normal and limited ed. pg 248 If a bag of Holding is placed in a portable hole (pg 264), a rift in the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and Hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed in a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: the Hole, the bag, and and creatures within 10ft radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.
Beckettvampire 11-14-07, 04:52 PM	Apologies, I see the mistake. I could have sworn that the last sentence said place a bag of holding into another bag of holding.
Scion of Coldshard 11-14-07, 05:36 PM	So what happens if you do it while ON the astral plane? ;) An angel gets its wings.
Toki_Wartooth 11-14-07, 05:49 PM	I could have sworn that the last sentence said place a bag of holding into another bag of holding.We shouldn't rule out the possibility that mvincent recently altered it via dark means.
Oliver D'Argent 11-14-07, 11:06 PM	Both terms are actually used to describe a portable hole. D&D uses them interchangeably. Hmm. Now that I re-read the Portable Hole description, I see that it does use both terms - but that could easily be a result of poor editing, rather than an intent for the terms to be considered interchangeable. Since the only penalties listed are for placing a Bag of Holding within a Portable Hole or vice versa, it seems reasonable to me to assume that if there was an intended penalty for placing one Bag of Holding within another or one Portable Hole within another, it would have been mentioned in the item descriptions.
mvincent 11-15-07, 12:18 AM	Hmm. Now that I re-read the Portable Hole description, I see that it does use both terms - but that could easily be a result of poor editing, rather than an intent for the terms to be considered interchangeable.That is possible, but (given the 2nd ed. clarifications above) it would still not support your initial premise that 'splodin happens because the two types are mixed.
ArcTan 11-15-07, 12:27 AM	So what happens if you do it while ON the astral plane? ;) It makes a hole in the Astral Plane leading to another part of the Astral Plane. (The Astral Plane is funny like that.)
navar100 11-15-07, 02:24 AM	In my DM's campaigns over the years, even before I joined, players would have their character put a bag of holding into a bag of holding on purpose to suck the enemy into the Astral Plane. Our rogue did it last campaign at a very climactic battle. The DM was taken by surprise. He was fine with it for the sake of that adventure, but it has been decreed by the chief god of the pantheon that such a thing is from now on Verboten. Anyone doing such a thing again will face Divine Wrath. All clerics of all deities know this. All clerics were instructed to spread the word. Everyone in the world knows this. :D
ArcTan 11-15-07, 02:30 AM	Depending on how big the BBEG is, this doesn't necessarily strand him. Plane shift reliably takes you back from the Astral to the Material. So does simply looking for a color pool, if you're willful enough to navigate the Astral (it's a plane of thought, remember, not really material, and responds to will rather than actual absolute direction) and strong enough to survive there. The main reason bags of holding and their contents are "lost forever" is that they're not conscious beings and incapable of wanting or trying to escape.
Oliver D'Argent 11-15-07, 08:07 AM	That is possible, but (given the 2nd ed. clarifications above) it would still not support your initial premise that 'splodin happens because the two types are mixed. :confused: The item descriptions say that "'splodin happens" when the two types are mixed. I am disputing your initial premise - that "'splodin happens" when same types are mixed. While I generally find the FAQ useful, in this instance it does not seem consistent with what the rules actually say (and it appears you are quoting the 3.0 FAQ, rather than the 3.5).
Mortisum 11-15-07, 11:50 AM	i am so glad i brought this question to light because i know alot of people were still assuming the same thing applied from 2nd... i didnt realize the confusion until i started dming for 3.5 and was reading about the magical items. i really do appreciate all the insight into this.
mvincent 11-15-07, 12:57 PM	The item descriptions say that "'splodin happens" when the two types are mixed.It says it happens when BoH is mixed with PH, but does not say anything about combining 'nondimensional' with 'extradimensional' (which is the combo you were referring to earlier) I am disputing your initial premise - that "'splodin happens" when same types are mixed.1) Both BoH and PH are described using the same term in 3.0 and 3.5 (i.e. same type, but exploding happens). 2) Your assertion that this was possibly a typo seems tenuous, but (if entertained) causes us to look back at 2nd ed. for previous intent and precedence. 3) The 2nd ed. rules specifically refer to BoH and PH as 'extradimensional' (i.e. same type), and says that the reaction happens when mixing 'extradimensional' (i.e. same type) objects. from 2nd ed.: "The following items contain extradimensional spaces: bag of holding, bag of transmuting, flatbox, girdle of many pouches, Heward’s handy haversack, portable hole" "placing one extradimensional space inside another opens a rift to the Astral Plane" While I generally find the FAQ useful, in this instance it does not seem consistent with what the rules actually sayI agree, but this seems a non-sequitur to the extradimensional/nondimensional discussion. I gather you believed we were discussing something else? If so, can we safely say that you no longer put stock in the "combining 'nondimensional' with 'extradimensional' is what causes the explosion" premise? Still, while the core rules did not detail a say, BoH in BoH mix, such a case being a hazard was still possibly within the writer's intent (especially given the precedence of earlier editions). it appears you are quoting the 3.0 FAQ, rather than the 3.5).Yes. However, 3.0 FAQ clarifications are actually still valid (unless contradicted by new rules or somesuch). Regardless: I provided several different rulings on this topic (and a DM could choose any he desired)... that seems as unbiased as one could be on a topic... and I wasn't even debating this particular topic :)
1 ton ghost 11-15-07, 03:36 PM	unless you're trying to make a void weapon, let sleeping giants lie. why would you want to mix n' match anyway? we paid this consideration in a Faerun campaign: Gondar MysTheurge took one for the team and bought a Portable Hole. frequently, for mercantile exploits and mobility, Teleport was employed to capitalize on the massive space. ie)buy spice cheap in Chult, sell it for a fortune way North, etc. frequently, the risk was offset by pre'port Scry to familiarize caster w/ target area and this was never performed in combat. too risky. well, for those that didn't "fit" given the CL and # of bodies transported, they'd go "in the hole" pre flight. this way, more passengers travel than the spell would allow traditionally. i was a littled pi$$ed they found a loophole in Teleport to exploit. but...i smelled a rat. g/f's rogue, another Ftr, Hell, eventually most of them got HH Haversack's (every PC needs one) and i thought, "ah ha...you're all gonna' die." but, to be fair, i had the Theurge ('port caster and PH owner) make a Know.Planar roll to see if he realized this discrepancy beforehand. he did and it ultimately became dogma to "check your luggage" before the flight so to speak. the airpocket wasn't an issue really either given many pile in, Move Action to close Hole, Move Action to pocket it, Standard to cast Teleport, and 2 more Moves to retrieve and open. so many technicalities to keep in hand...