Baleful Polymorph and Shapechangers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Baleful Polymorph and Shapechangers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sarlax
10-08-05, 01:48 AM If affected by Baleful Polymorph, a creature with the shapechanger subtype can change back to its own form. Does this merely restore its physical shape or does the shapechanger regain its mental abilities as well?

From the spell:
As polymorph, except that you change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD. If the new form would prove fatal to the creature the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save.

If the spell succeeds, the subject must also make a Will save. If this second save fails, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, loses its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gains the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own. It still retains its class and level (or HD), as well as all benefits deriving therefrom (such as base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points). It retains any class features (other than spellcasting) that aren’t extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities.

Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.
Sputler
10-08-05, 04:51 AM you just answered your own question. The section reads natural form. In its natural form it doesnt have the mind of a rabbit. the key word is natural.
SALDAR
10-10-05, 02:45 AM If the shapechanger fails the second save, a Will save, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. For creatures with the shapechanger subtype, changing shape is a supernatural ability (MM pg 314) and is lost if they fail the Will save and their "natural" form is now a "Small or smaller animal".
Sarlax
10-10-05, 08:59 AM If the shapechanger fails the second save, a Will save, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. For creatures with the shapechanger subtype, changing shape is a supernatural ability (MM pg 314) and is lost if they fail the Will save and their "natural" form is now a "Small or smaller animal".
Take a look at Polymorph. There's no mental change. However:
The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form ... a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.
It's clear that what is meant by the text is that a creature which was originally a shapechanger can return to its original form despite having lost its shapechanger subtype. Why specify that shapechangers can revert to normal otherwise?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sarlax 10-08-05, 01:48 AM	If affected by Baleful Polymorph, a creature with the shapechanger subtype can change back to its own form. Does this merely restore its physical shape or does the shapechanger regain its mental abilities as well? From the spell: As polymorph, except that you change the subject into a Small or smaller animal of no more than 1 HD. If the new form would prove fatal to the creature the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save. If the spell succeeds, the subject must also make a Will save. If this second save fails, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, loses its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability), and gains the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own. It still retains its class and level (or HD), as well as all benefits deriving therefrom (such as base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points). It retains any class features (other than spellcasting) that aren’t extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities. Incorporeal or gaseous creatures are immune to being polymorphed, and a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action.
Sputler 10-08-05, 04:51 AM	you just answered your own question. The section reads natural form. In its natural form it doesnt have the mind of a rabbit. the key word is natural.
SALDAR 10-10-05, 02:45 AM	If the shapechanger fails the second save, a Will save, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. For creatures with the shapechanger subtype, changing shape is a supernatural ability (MM pg 314) and is lost if they fail the Will save and their "natural" form is now a "Small or smaller animal".
Sarlax 10-10-05, 08:59 AM	If the shapechanger fails the second save, a Will save, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. For creatures with the shapechanger subtype, changing shape is a supernatural ability (MM pg 314) and is lost if they fail the Will save and their "natural" form is now a "Small or smaller animal". Take a look at Polymorph. There's no mental change. However: The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form ... a creature with the shapechanger subtype can revert to its natural form as a standard action. It's clear that what is meant by the text is that a creature which was originally a shapechanger can return to its original form despite having lost its shapechanger subtype. Why specify that shapechangers can revert to normal otherwise?