Baleful Shapechange? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Baleful Shapechange? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arkan_Shadesfire
04-18-07, 11:17 AM I've been working on an idea for a magical tattoo that supresses the demonic powers of half fiends, effectively transforming them into tieflings.

I've tried a bunch of different things, and now I'm looking at a cross between baleful polymorph and shapechange.

The idea is that the spell actually changes your target's race for the duration of the effect. You keep the same ability rolls, but the racial modifiers change, and so does the level adjustment, special abilities, everything

I know there are a lot of potential problems with that, but I don't intend for this to be something my PC's are going to learn how to cast. The way it's going to be introduced, one character had the tattoo applied at birth, transforming him from a half-fiend into a tiefling and giving him a chance to overcome the dark tendancies of his heritage. (Half-Fiends are always evil, Tieflings have a choice.)

Once I have the spell it's based on, I can begin creating the actual tattoo, but this is a little out of my comfort zone, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here had an idea of how to write it.
NobodyRemembersThis
04-18-07, 11:45 AM You could just make it a curse. Since both are outsiders, it should be possible. But, what race was he originally? ie, human half fiend, ogre half fiend, etc. What was his non-templated race?
CaoSlayer
04-18-07, 11:45 AM Easy.

Polymorph Any Object
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 8
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its enchanted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines.
Changed Subject Is: Increase to Duration Factor1

1. Add all that apply. Look up the total on the next table.

Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral) +5
Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2
Same size +2
Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.) +2
Same or lower Intelligence +2
Duration Factor Duration Example
0 20 minutes Pebble to human
2 1 hour Marionette to human
4 3 hours Human to marionette
5 12 hours Lizard to manticore
6 2 days Sheep to wool coat
7 1 week Shrew to manticore
9+ Permanent Manticore to shrew

Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form. If the original form didn’t have a Wisdom or Charisma score, it gains those scores as appropriate for the new form.

Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force.

A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items aren’t affected by this spell.

This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures.

This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud.
Arcane Material Component

Mercury, gum arabic, and smoke.
ArcTan
04-18-07, 02:02 PM I've been working on an idea for a magical tattoo that supresses the demonic powers of half fiends, effectively transforming them into tieflings.

I've tried a bunch of different things, and now I'm looking at a cross between baleful polymorph and shapechange.

The idea is that the spell actually changes your target's race for the duration of the effect. You keep the same ability rolls, but the racial modifiers change, and so does the level adjustment, special abilities, everything

I know there are a lot of potential problems with that, but I don't intend for this to be something my PC's are going to learn how to cast. The way it's going to be introduced, one character had the tattoo applied at birth, transforming him from a half-fiend into a tiefling and giving him a chance to overcome the dark tendancies of his heritage. (Half-Fiends are always evil, Tieflings have a choice.)

Once I have the spell it's based on, I can begin creating the actual tattoo, but this is a little out of my comfort zone, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here had an idea of how to write it.

Honestly, if the players never get a chance to cast the spell, writing the spell out is a waste of time. Just make up the rules for how the tattoo works as a plot device, and, if you really want to, give yourself some general guidelines for how powerful someone has to be to cast the spell for consistency's sake. But making up a whole set of rules behind the scenes for something that's just a plot device is unnecessary -- you're the DM, you have the right to drag in things as Rule Zero.
ArcTan
04-18-07, 02:04 PM Easy.

No. This doesn't literally work, because PAO does *not* change your mental ability scores *except* for Intelligence. Nor does it change your alignment. Nor, and this is the important part, is it Instantaneous -- it's Permanent, meaning it can be dispelled by a simple greater dispel magic.

You can base such a thing off of PAO, but don't call it PAO or tell your players it's literally PAO, or this is one of the first things they'll try.
Arkan_Shadesfire
04-19-07, 09:05 PM Honestly, if the players never get a chance to cast the spell, writing the spell out is a waste of time. Just make up the rules for how the tattoo works as a plot device, and, if you really want to, give yourself some general guidelines for how powerful someone has to be to cast the spell for consistency's sake. But making up a whole set of rules behind the scenes for something that's just a plot device is unnecessary -- you're the DM, you have the right to drag in things as Rule Zero.

The thing is, they may run into the NPC that gave the guy the tattoo later on in the campaign.

I'm not willing to put it into my PC's hands due to the problems it can create, but I don't mind introducing it into the campaign in a limited fashion through NPCs where I can control how it's used and not get blindsided by a clever (or munchkiny) player.

Ultimately, I just don't want to pawn this off as "Rule 0 in action"

I'm personally interested in what the mechanics of a race-changing spell would be, although since there seems to be no direct precedent, it gets a little tricky to figure out.

To clarify, the guidelines of what I'm looking for is that it:

> Actually changes the target's race, affecting all race-dependant modifiers, abilities, and what have you.

> Can only change the target into a race with the same LA or lower

> Affects one target, (Will?) save negates

> The effect doesn't have to be permanent, hence the need for the tattoo (It's a continuous magic item based on the spell)

Beyond that, I'm really not sure. It might work to make the spell specific to fiendish creatures. IE: Call it a Demon Sealing spell or somesuch and have it only affect creatures with fiendish heritage. (Fiends, Half-Fiends, tieflings, ect)

Then it might be useful to bring into the campaign as a general-purpose demon binding spell--you could go the whole "demon trapped in human form" route with it.

As for the character that's going to have the tattoo, he's a human half-fiend--although he'll be a tiefling when he's first encountered due to the effects of the tattoo.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arkan_Shadesfire 04-18-07, 11:17 AM	I've been working on an idea for a magical tattoo that supresses the demonic powers of half fiends, effectively transforming them into tieflings. I've tried a bunch of different things, and now I'm looking at a cross between baleful polymorph and shapechange. The idea is that the spell actually changes your target's race for the duration of the effect. You keep the same ability rolls, but the racial modifiers change, and so does the level adjustment, special abilities, everything I know there are a lot of potential problems with that, but I don't intend for this to be something my PC's are going to learn how to cast. The way it's going to be introduced, one character had the tattoo applied at birth, transforming him from a half-fiend into a tiefling and giving him a chance to overcome the dark tendancies of his heritage. (Half-Fiends are always evil, Tieflings have a choice.) Once I have the spell it's based on, I can begin creating the actual tattoo, but this is a little out of my comfort zone, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here had an idea of how to write it.
NobodyRemembersThis 04-18-07, 11:45 AM	You could just make it a curse. Since both are outsiders, it should be possible. But, what race was he originally? ie, human half fiend, ogre half fiend, etc. What was his non-templated race?
CaoSlayer 04-18-07, 11:45 AM	Easy. Polymorph Any Object Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 8 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level Duration: See text Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object); see text Spell Resistance: Yes (object) This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its enchanted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines. Changed Subject Is: Increase to Duration Factor1 1. Add all that apply. Look up the total on the next table. Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral) +5 Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.) +2 Same size +2 Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.) +2 Same or lower Intelligence +2 Duration Factor Duration Example 0 20 minutes Pebble to human 2 1 hour Marionette to human 4 3 hours Human to marionette 5 12 hours Lizard to manticore 6 2 days Sheep to wool coat 7 1 week Shrew to manticore 9+ Permanent Manticore to shrew Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form. If the original form didn’t have a Wisdom or Charisma score, it gains those scores as appropriate for the new form. Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force. A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items aren’t affected by this spell. This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures. This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud. Arcane Material Component Mercury, gum arabic, and smoke.
ArcTan 04-18-07, 02:02 PM	I've been working on an idea for a magical tattoo that supresses the demonic powers of half fiends, effectively transforming them into tieflings. I've tried a bunch of different things, and now I'm looking at a cross between baleful polymorph and shapechange. The idea is that the spell actually changes your target's race for the duration of the effect. You keep the same ability rolls, but the racial modifiers change, and so does the level adjustment, special abilities, everything I know there are a lot of potential problems with that, but I don't intend for this to be something my PC's are going to learn how to cast. The way it's going to be introduced, one character had the tattoo applied at birth, transforming him from a half-fiend into a tiefling and giving him a chance to overcome the dark tendancies of his heritage. (Half-Fiends are always evil, Tieflings have a choice.) Once I have the spell it's based on, I can begin creating the actual tattoo, but this is a little out of my comfort zone, so I thought I'd ask if anyone here had an idea of how to write it. Honestly, if the players never get a chance to cast the spell, writing the spell out is a waste of time. Just make up the rules for how the tattoo works as a plot device, and, if you really want to, give yourself some general guidelines for how powerful someone has to be to cast the spell for consistency's sake. But making up a whole set of rules behind the scenes for something that's just a plot device is unnecessary -- you're the DM, you have the right to drag in things as Rule Zero.
ArcTan 04-18-07, 02:04 PM	Easy. No. This doesn't literally work, because PAO does not change your mental ability scores except for Intelligence. Nor does it change your alignment. Nor, and this is the important part, is it Instantaneous -- it's Permanent, meaning it can be dispelled by a simple greater dispel magic. You can base such a thing off of PAO, but don't call it PAO or tell your players it's literally PAO, or this is one of the first things they'll try.
Arkan_Shadesfire 04-19-07, 09:05 PM	Honestly, if the players never get a chance to cast the spell, writing the spell out is a waste of time. Just make up the rules for how the tattoo works as a plot device, and, if you really want to, give yourself some general guidelines for how powerful someone has to be to cast the spell for consistency's sake. But making up a whole set of rules behind the scenes for something that's just a plot device is unnecessary -- you're the DM, you have the right to drag in things as Rule Zero. The thing is, they may run into the NPC that gave the guy the tattoo later on in the campaign. I'm not willing to put it into my PC's hands due to the problems it can create, but I don't mind introducing it into the campaign in a limited fashion through NPCs where I can control how it's used and not get blindsided by a clever (or munchkiny) player. Ultimately, I just don't want to pawn this off as "Rule 0 in action" I'm personally interested in what the mechanics of a race-changing spell would be, although since there seems to be no direct precedent, it gets a little tricky to figure out. To clarify, the guidelines of what I'm looking for is that it: > Actually changes the target's race, affecting all race-dependant modifiers, abilities, and what have you. > Can only change the target into a race with the same LA or lower > Affects one target, (Will?) save negates > The effect doesn't have to be permanent, hence the need for the tattoo (It's a continuous magic item based on the spell) Beyond that, I'm really not sure. It might work to make the spell specific to fiendish creatures. IE: Call it a Demon Sealing spell or somesuch and have it only affect creatures with fiendish heritage. (Fiends, Half-Fiends, tieflings, ect) Then it might be useful to bring into the campaign as a general-purpose demon binding spell--you could go the whole "demon trapped in human form" route with it. As for the character that's going to have the tattoo, he's a human half-fiend--although he'll be a tiefling when he's first encountered due to the effects of the tattoo.