Ball Lightning PEACH [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ball Lightning PEACH [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CelestialBarbarian
02-07-07, 07:38 AM Does the following spell seem too powerful, or about right for its level? If too powerful, why, and how would you reduce it to fit the level? Thanks! :)

Ball Lightning
Evocation [Lightning]
Level: Lightning 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, DF/M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 120 ft.
Area: 120-ft. line
Duration: Until discharged or 1 minute/level (D)
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

When you cast ball lightning a ball of lightning forms over your head and follows you until it has fully discharged, it expires, or you dismiss it. Each round as a swift action you can discharge one bolt of electricity from the ball as though casting a lightning bolt from it. Discharging a bolt qualifies as casting a quickened spell, so you cannot discharge a bolt and cast another quickened spell in the same round. The first bolt you discharge does 1d6/caster level (maximum 20d6). Each successive bolt does 1d6 less than the previous bolt, so that the second bolt does 1d6/caster level -1, the third bolt does 1d6/caster level -2 and so forth. The ball shrinks with each successive bolt, and vanishes with the discharge of the last bolt, which always does 1d6, unless the spell expires first or you dismiss it first. The ball partially obscures vision, giving you 50% concealment from anyone directly above you; the ball gives anyone directly above you 50% concealment from you as well. The electricity of the ball tends to repel objects, so it provides you 50% cover against any attack coming from directly above you. A target directly above you likewise receives 50% cover against any attack you make other than discharging a bolt of electricity from the cloud.

Arcane Material Component: A small ball of copper wire.
CantripN
02-07-07, 07:43 AM It's a fine 9th level spell, without the silly cover and concealment.
CelestialBarbarian
02-07-07, 07:46 AM It's a fine 9th level spell, without the silly cover and concealment.

Setting aside your dislike of the minor cover and concealment aspects, how would you change it to make it fit 8th level? (I have it as part of my Lightning Domain, and already have a 9th level spell on that list.) :) Thanks.
CantripN
02-07-07, 07:54 AM Setting aside your dislike of the minor cover and concealment aspects, how would you change it to make it fit 8th level? (I have it as part of my Lightning Domain, and already have a 9th level spell on that list.) :) Thanks.

Reduce the Duration to 1 Round/level and make the bolt get weaker in 2d6 increments. So, for instance: 15d6, 13d6, 11d6, 9d6, 7d6, 5d6, 3d6, 1d6.
Either that, or have the damage fall whether you use it or not, by the round.
Tiarn
02-07-07, 07:59 AM Also, though this is really a nitpicky language detail, you don't need to say in the description:
Discharging a bolt qualifies as casting a quickened spell, so you cannot discharge a bolt and cast another quickened spell in the same round.

You've already declared that using a bolt counts as a swift action, therefore you cannot cast another quickened spell since doing so is a swift action and you only get one swift action each round.

And if I were making this an 8th level spell I would go with the first choice that CantripN gave above:
Reduce the Duration to 1 Round/level and make the bolt get weaker in 2d6 increments. So, for instance: 15d6, 13d6, 11d6, 9d6, 7d6, 5d6, 3d6, 1d6.
CelestialBarbarian
02-07-07, 08:25 AM Also, though this is really a nitpicky language detail, you don't need to say in the description:

You've already declared that using a bolt counts as a swift action, therefore you cannot cast another quickened spell since doing so is a swift action and you only get one swift action each round.

And if I were making this an 8th level spell I would go with the first choice that CantripN gave above:

Thanks! And thanks again to CantripN!

Yeah, that's leftover text from the 3.0 version of the spell when it was a free action. I changed it to a swift action, but didn't remove the rest of that text. I've deleted it now.

I actually prefer CantripN's second choice. There's something about having it diminish by 1 die per round that I find aesthetically pleasing.
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 11:03 AM Ok, I've reduced the duration to 1 round per level. This creates the connundrum of having a spell whose duration can last longer than the spell has damage to inflict. I've added some text to allow a caster above 20th level to "hold" a bolt for each level in excess of 20. Please let me know if I'm making the intent clear or need to clarify it further. Thanks! :)

Ball Lightning
Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Lightning 8, Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, DF/M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 120 ft.
Area: 120-ft. line
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

When you cast ball lightning a ball of lightning forms over your head and follows you until it expires or you dismiss it. Each round as a swift action you can discharge one bolt of electricity from the ball as though casting a lightning bolt from it. The first bolt you discharge does 1d6/caster level (maximum 20d6). The bolt that you can discharge in each successive round does 1d6 less than the previous bolt, so that a bolt discharged in the second round does 1d6/caster level -1, a bolt in the third round does 1d6/caster level -2 and so forth. If you skip a round you lose the bolt that you could have discharged that round. If the caster level exceeds 20, the caster can “hold” a bolt for one round per level in excess of 20th without losing a d6. A 21st-level caster, for example, could hold any one bolt for one round, such as holding the 20d6 bolt until round two. He could then cast a 19d6 bolt in round three, etc. The ball shrinks with each successive round, and vanishes when the spell expires unless you dismiss it first. The ball partially obscures vision, giving you 50% concealment from anyone directly above you; the ball gives anyone directly above you 50% concealment from you as well. The electricity of the ball tends to repel objects, so it provides you 50% cover against any attack coming from directly above you. A target directly above you likewise receives 50% cover against any attack you make other than discharging a bolt of electricity from the cloud.

Arcane Material Component: A small ball of copper wire.
Cyanide300
02-10-07, 03:30 PM It's still a possible 210d6 possible damage from one spell. Granted, it's discharged over 2 minutes, but it's still a rediculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell.
DarkRhystar
02-10-07, 03:39 PM It's still a possible 210d6 possible damage from one spell. Granted, it's discharged over 2 minutes, but it's still a rediculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell.

A fireball from a level 10 caster can do 410d6 damage. Granted, that assumes 41 enemies in the blast radius but it's still a ridiculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell. :rolleyes:
CelestialBarbarian
02-10-07, 03:53 PM A fireball from a level 10 caster can do 410d6 damage. Granted, that assumes 41 enemies in the blast radius but it's still a ridiculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell. :rolleyes:

:rofl: Thanks for putting that in perspective. :)
Cyanide300
02-10-07, 11:41 PM A fireball from a level 10 caster can do 410d6 damage. Granted, that assumes 41 enemies in the blast radius but it's still a ridiculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell. :rolleyes:

That 210d6 is just for 1 target buddy. If you assumed each 120ft line was loaded with medium sized targets, it's more like 5040d6 total damage. :rolleyes:

If you targeted all 4 spheres of a meteor swarm at 1 opponent you could do a possible 32d6 damage to that target (6d6 from each fireball, plus 2d6 from the meteors). This ball lightning spell cast by a 17th level wizard surpasses that in just 2 rounds, and it's got 15 more shots left. Oh, and did we mention it's a swift action to use this spell, so perhaps we could fire a meteor swarm or a disintegrate while we're hitting them for 17d6 lightning damage. There's nothing in that description that says you have to concentrate to keep the spell up, so it's free use of all your other spells while this thing is active.
CelestialBarbarian
02-11-07, 01:16 AM That 210d6 is just for 1 target buddy. If you assumed each 120ft line was loaded with medium sized targets, it's more like 5040d6 total damage. :rolleyes:

If you targeted all 4 spheres of a meteor swarm at 1 opponent you could do a possible 32d6 damage to that target (6d6 from each fireball, plus 2d6 from the meteors). This ball lightning spell cast by a 17th level wizard surpasses that in just 2 rounds, and it's got 15 more shots left. Oh, and did we mention it's a swift action to use this spell, so perhaps we could fire a meteor swarm or a disintegrate while we're hitting them for 17d6 lightning damage. There's nothing in that description that says you have to concentrate to keep the spell up, so it's free use of all your other spells while this thing is active.

Other than the initial damage, the rest of the damage is contingent upon a) Combat lasting at least 20 rounds after the casting of the spell and b) nobody bothering to dispel it. It has "dispel bait" written all over it. :D
Tiarn
02-11-07, 10:39 AM Cyanide300, have you looked at Lightning Ring from the Spell Compendium? It would allow you to do 100d6 points of damage over the course of only ten rounds, and you don't have to use any action at all, the two bolts are a free action. So with this one you could not only still disintegrate or meteor swarm, but also quicken something as well.

And it does more damage if someone is foolish enough to stand next to you, not to mention giving you resistance to electricity.

So really I would think this spell in question, with the way it's been altered, is fine.
CelestialBarbarian
02-11-07, 10:42 AM Cyanide300, have you looked at Lightning Ring from the Spell Compendium? It would allow you to do 100d6 points of damage over the course of only ten rounds, and you don't have to use any action at all, the two bolts are a free action. So with this one you could not only still disintegrate or meteor swarm, but also quicken something as well.

And it does more damage if someone is foolish enough to stand next to you, not to mention giving you resistance to electricity.

So really I would think this spell in question, with the way it's been altered, is fine.

Thank you very much for the valuable comparison! :)
Cyanide300
02-11-07, 11:57 AM Cyanide300, have you looked at Lightning Ring from the Spell Compendium? It would allow you to do 100d6 points of damage over the course of only ten rounds, and you don't have to use any action at all, the two bolts are a free action. So with this one you could not only still disintegrate or meteor swarm, but also quicken something as well.

Actually it takes 11 rounds to do that damage, because the first round is spent casting the spell (Casting time: 1 round). This ball lightning spell from a 20th level caster would do 105d6 damage in 6 rounds (total, because you can use your swift action to attack in the same round you cast it), and allow only 6 saves from the target(s). Lightning Ring from a 20th level caster does 100d6 in 10 attacks, and allows 20 saves.

I'm not going to argue it any further because it seems to me that I'm the only one doing the math for this spell. I'll just say that in its current form I'd never allow it as a 9th level spell that somebody could cast 6 times a day.
Tiarn
02-12-07, 01:10 AM Cyanide300, there really isn't an argument here. The OP asked for an honest critique, part of a critique is discussion.

We aren't going to immediately agree with you just because you posted. You bring up your points, we bring up ours.

You bring up valid points, though. I hadn't thought about the more saves lightning ring would allow. Though it is a free action to use which should be taken into account as well.

CelestialBarbarian, I really think you should go with CantripN's first idea of Reduce the Duration to 1 Round/level and make the bolt get weaker in 2d6 increments. So, for instance: 15d6, 13d6, 11d6, 9d6, 7d6, 5d6, 3d6, 1d6.

I know you find the other more pleasing, but the more I think about it the more I agree with Cyanide300, that it's just too much.

Perhaps there should be some sort of costly material component?
Lafing Cat
02-12-07, 05:00 AM Actually it takes 11 rounds to do that damage, because the first round is spent casting the spell (Casting time: 1 round). This ball lightning spell from a 20th level caster would do 105d6 damage in 6 rounds (total, because you can use your swift action to attack in the same round you cast it), and allow only 6 saves from the target(s). Lightning Ring from a 20th level caster does 100d6 in 10 attacks, and allows 20 saves.

I'm not going to argue it any further because it seems to me that I'm the only one doing the math for this spell. I'll just say that in its current form I'd never allow it as a 9th level spell that somebody could cast 6 times a day.

"number of saves" involved doesn't affect a spells power level. If I give you one save vs 10d6 of damage, or 10 saves vs 1d6 of damage, the *average* damage taken is still the same. (barring rare instances like the Elan's Resiliance or Moment of Precience) A valid point is that Lightning Ring allows energy resistance more often however.

Someone with Lightning Resistance 10 is going to knock 200 points of damage off Lightning Ring, and only 60 points off of your spell. I'd say its a bit strong for 8th level.
CelestialBarbarian
02-12-07, 07:44 AM Thanks everyone for the feedback! Based on the earlier comments, I reduced the duration to 1 round/level and introduced the concept of "losing" a bolt if you don't cast it in its appropriate round. I also noticed that above 20th level the spell duration outlasts the number of bolts, so I also introduced a concept of "holding" the sequence of bolts one round for every caster level above 20th. I kept the concept of losing 1d6/round (except on a round for which you can "hold" a bolt if your caster level exceeds 20).

The party's 21st-level wizard learned this version of ball lightning and gave it to his familiar as her Familar Spell. Since I'd already downgraded it from the earlier version (the one I posted) and we've actually already used it in play, I'm going to stick with the version I've discussed in this post until such time, if ever, that it strikes me as too powerful. I really appreciate all the feedback, and as you can see, considered what you all had to say. You guys are great! Thanks. :)
CantripN
02-12-07, 08:11 AM So long as you have fun playing the game, I'm not one to judge.
I will note I wouldn't allow this spell as is into my game, since it's quite a bit better than any other damaging 8th level spell, but to each hit own.
I'd allow it if it had a Cap of 25d6 and got bumped down by 2d6 a round, use it or not. That's still a world of hurt, but it no longer decimates armies.

Cheers,
Cantrip. :)
CelestialBarbarian
02-12-07, 09:25 AM So long as you have fun playing the game, I'm not one to judge.
I will note I wouldn't allow this spell as is into my game, since it's quite a bit better than any other damaging 8th level spell, but to each hit own.
I'd allow it if it had a Cap of 25d6 and got bumped down by 2d6 a round, use it or not. That's still a world of hurt, but it no longer decimates armies.

Cheers,
Cantrip. :)

It currently has a cap of 20d6, and as I recall, making it fall 1d6/round whether you use it or not was your suggestion! :)
CantripN
02-12-07, 09:30 AM It currently has a cap of 20d6, and as I recall, making it fall 1d6/round whether you use it or not was your suggestion! :)

"It's hard enough to remember my opinions, but to remember the reasons?"
I really meant to use the first suggestion. The second one was the Munchkin in me speaking.
CelestialBarbarian
02-12-07, 10:44 AM "It's hard enough to remember my opinions, but to remember the reasons?"
I really meant to use the first suggestion. The second one was the Munchkin in me speaking.

In that case, welcome to the Lollypop League. :D

It's too late now, I've already put the spell in operation. I'm not going to change it mid-encounter.

I didn't realize that there were any munchkins in Israel. Did they migrate there in the great Oz disapora? ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CelestialBarbarian 02-07-07, 07:38 AM	Does the following spell seem too powerful, or about right for its level? If too powerful, why, and how would you reduce it to fit the level? Thanks! :) Ball Lightning Evocation [Lightning] Level: Lightning 8, Sor/Wiz 8 Components: V, S, DF/M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 120 ft. Area: 120-ft. line Duration: Until discharged or 1 minute/level (D) Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes When you cast ball lightning a ball of lightning forms over your head and follows you until it has fully discharged, it expires, or you dismiss it. Each round as a swift action you can discharge one bolt of electricity from the ball as though casting a lightning bolt from it. Discharging a bolt qualifies as casting a quickened spell, so you cannot discharge a bolt and cast another quickened spell in the same round. The first bolt you discharge does 1d6/caster level (maximum 20d6). Each successive bolt does 1d6 less than the previous bolt, so that the second bolt does 1d6/caster level -1, the third bolt does 1d6/caster level -2 and so forth. The ball shrinks with each successive bolt, and vanishes with the discharge of the last bolt, which always does 1d6, unless the spell expires first or you dismiss it first. The ball partially obscures vision, giving you 50% concealment from anyone directly above you; the ball gives anyone directly above you 50% concealment from you as well. The electricity of the ball tends to repel objects, so it provides you 50% cover against any attack coming from directly above you. A target directly above you likewise receives 50% cover against any attack you make other than discharging a bolt of electricity from the cloud. Arcane Material Component: A small ball of copper wire.
CantripN 02-07-07, 07:43 AM	It's a fine 9th level spell, without the silly cover and concealment.
CelestialBarbarian 02-07-07, 07:46 AM	It's a fine 9th level spell, without the silly cover and concealment. Setting aside your dislike of the minor cover and concealment aspects, how would you change it to make it fit 8th level? (I have it as part of my Lightning Domain, and already have a 9th level spell on that list.) :) Thanks.
CantripN 02-07-07, 07:54 AM	Setting aside your dislike of the minor cover and concealment aspects, how would you change it to make it fit 8th level? (I have it as part of my Lightning Domain, and already have a 9th level spell on that list.) :) Thanks. Reduce the Duration to 1 Round/level and make the bolt get weaker in 2d6 increments. So, for instance: 15d6, 13d6, 11d6, 9d6, 7d6, 5d6, 3d6, 1d6. Either that, or have the damage fall whether you use it or not, by the round.
Tiarn 02-07-07, 07:59 AM	Also, though this is really a nitpicky language detail, you don't need to say in the description: Discharging a bolt qualifies as casting a quickened spell, so you cannot discharge a bolt and cast another quickened spell in the same round. You've already declared that using a bolt counts as a swift action, therefore you cannot cast another quickened spell since doing so is a swift action and you only get one swift action each round. And if I were making this an 8th level spell I would go with the first choice that CantripN gave above: Reduce the Duration to 1 Round/level and make the bolt get weaker in 2d6 increments. So, for instance: 15d6, 13d6, 11d6, 9d6, 7d6, 5d6, 3d6, 1d6.
CelestialBarbarian 02-07-07, 08:25 AM	Also, though this is really a nitpicky language detail, you don't need to say in the description: You've already declared that using a bolt counts as a swift action, therefore you cannot cast another quickened spell since doing so is a swift action and you only get one swift action each round. And if I were making this an 8th level spell I would go with the first choice that CantripN gave above: Thanks! And thanks again to CantripN! Yeah, that's leftover text from the 3.0 version of the spell when it was a free action. I changed it to a swift action, but didn't remove the rest of that text. I've deleted it now. I actually prefer CantripN's second choice. There's something about having it diminish by 1 die per round that I find aesthetically pleasing.
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 11:03 AM	Ok, I've reduced the duration to 1 round per level. This creates the connundrum of having a spell whose duration can last longer than the spell has damage to inflict. I've added some text to allow a caster above 20th level to "hold" a bolt for each level in excess of 20. Please let me know if I'm making the intent clear or need to clarify it further. Thanks! :) Ball Lightning Evocation [Electricity] Level: Lightning 8, Sor/Wiz 8 Components: V, S, DF/M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 120 ft. Area: 120-ft. line Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: Reflex half Spell Resistance: Yes When you cast ball lightning a ball of lightning forms over your head and follows you until it expires or you dismiss it. Each round as a swift action you can discharge one bolt of electricity from the ball as though casting a lightning bolt from it. The first bolt you discharge does 1d6/caster level (maximum 20d6). The bolt that you can discharge in each successive round does 1d6 less than the previous bolt, so that a bolt discharged in the second round does 1d6/caster level -1, a bolt in the third round does 1d6/caster level -2 and so forth. If you skip a round you lose the bolt that you could have discharged that round. If the caster level exceeds 20, the caster can “hold” a bolt for one round per level in excess of 20th without losing a d6. A 21st-level caster, for example, could hold any one bolt for one round, such as holding the 20d6 bolt until round two. He could then cast a 19d6 bolt in round three, etc. The ball shrinks with each successive round, and vanishes when the spell expires unless you dismiss it first. The ball partially obscures vision, giving you 50% concealment from anyone directly above you; the ball gives anyone directly above you 50% concealment from you as well. The electricity of the ball tends to repel objects, so it provides you 50% cover against any attack coming from directly above you. A target directly above you likewise receives 50% cover against any attack you make other than discharging a bolt of electricity from the cloud. Arcane Material Component: A small ball of copper wire.
Cyanide300 02-10-07, 03:30 PM	It's still a possible 210d6 possible damage from one spell. Granted, it's discharged over 2 minutes, but it's still a rediculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell.
DarkRhystar 02-10-07, 03:39 PM	It's still a possible 210d6 possible damage from one spell. Granted, it's discharged over 2 minutes, but it's still a rediculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell. A fireball from a level 10 caster can do 410d6 damage. Granted, that assumes 41 enemies in the blast radius but it's still a ridiculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell. :rolleyes:
CelestialBarbarian 02-10-07, 03:53 PM	A fireball from a level 10 caster can do 410d6 damage. Granted, that assumes 41 enemies in the blast radius but it's still a ridiculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell. :rolleyes: :rofl: Thanks for putting that in perspective. :)
Cyanide300 02-10-07, 11:41 PM	A fireball from a level 10 caster can do 410d6 damage. Granted, that assumes 41 enemies in the blast radius but it's still a ridiculous amount of damage from a non-epic spell. :rolleyes: That 210d6 is just for 1 target buddy. If you assumed each 120ft line was loaded with medium sized targets, it's more like 5040d6 total damage. :rolleyes: If you targeted all 4 spheres of a meteor swarm at 1 opponent you could do a possible 32d6 damage to that target (6d6 from each fireball, plus 2d6 from the meteors). This ball lightning spell cast by a 17th level wizard surpasses that in just 2 rounds, and it's got 15 more shots left. Oh, and did we mention it's a swift action to use this spell, so perhaps we could fire a meteor swarm or a disintegrate while we're hitting them for 17d6 lightning damage. There's nothing in that description that says you have to concentrate to keep the spell up, so it's free use of all your other spells while this thing is active.
CelestialBarbarian 02-11-07, 01:16 AM	That 210d6 is just for 1 target buddy. If you assumed each 120ft line was loaded with medium sized targets, it's more like 5040d6 total damage. :rolleyes: If you targeted all 4 spheres of a meteor swarm at 1 opponent you could do a possible 32d6 damage to that target (6d6 from each fireball, plus 2d6 from the meteors). This ball lightning spell cast by a 17th level wizard surpasses that in just 2 rounds, and it's got 15 more shots left. Oh, and did we mention it's a swift action to use this spell, so perhaps we could fire a meteor swarm or a disintegrate while we're hitting them for 17d6 lightning damage. There's nothing in that description that says you have to concentrate to keep the spell up, so it's free use of all your other spells while this thing is active. Other than the initial damage, the rest of the damage is contingent upon a) Combat lasting at least 20 rounds after the casting of the spell and b) nobody bothering to dispel it. It has "dispel bait" written all over it. :D
Tiarn 02-11-07, 10:39 AM	Cyanide300, have you looked at Lightning Ring from the Spell Compendium? It would allow you to do 100d6 points of damage over the course of only ten rounds, and you don't have to use any action at all, the two bolts are a free action. So with this one you could not only still disintegrate or meteor swarm, but also quicken something as well. And it does more damage if someone is foolish enough to stand next to you, not to mention giving you resistance to electricity. So really I would think this spell in question, with the way it's been altered, is fine.
CelestialBarbarian 02-11-07, 10:42 AM	Cyanide300, have you looked at Lightning Ring from the Spell Compendium? It would allow you to do 100d6 points of damage over the course of only ten rounds, and you don't have to use any action at all, the two bolts are a free action. So with this one you could not only still disintegrate or meteor swarm, but also quicken something as well. And it does more damage if someone is foolish enough to stand next to you, not to mention giving you resistance to electricity. So really I would think this spell in question, with the way it's been altered, is fine. Thank you very much for the valuable comparison! :)
Cyanide300 02-11-07, 11:57 AM	Cyanide300, have you looked at Lightning Ring from the Spell Compendium? It would allow you to do 100d6 points of damage over the course of only ten rounds, and you don't have to use any action at all, the two bolts are a free action. So with this one you could not only still disintegrate or meteor swarm, but also quicken something as well. Actually it takes 11 rounds to do that damage, because the first round is spent casting the spell (Casting time: 1 round). This ball lightning spell from a 20th level caster would do 105d6 damage in 6 rounds (total, because you can use your swift action to attack in the same round you cast it), and allow only 6 saves from the target(s). Lightning Ring from a 20th level caster does 100d6 in 10 attacks, and allows 20 saves. I'm not going to argue it any further because it seems to me that I'm the only one doing the math for this spell. I'll just say that in its current form I'd never allow it as a 9th level spell that somebody could cast 6 times a day.
Tiarn 02-12-07, 01:10 AM	Cyanide300, there really isn't an argument here. The OP asked for an honest critique, part of a critique is discussion. We aren't going to immediately agree with you just because you posted. You bring up your points, we bring up ours. You bring up valid points, though. I hadn't thought about the more saves lightning ring would allow. Though it is a free action to use which should be taken into account as well. CelestialBarbarian, I really think you should go with CantripN's first idea of Reduce the Duration to 1 Round/level and make the bolt get weaker in 2d6 increments. So, for instance: 15d6, 13d6, 11d6, 9d6, 7d6, 5d6, 3d6, 1d6. I know you find the other more pleasing, but the more I think about it the more I agree with Cyanide300, that it's just too much. Perhaps there should be some sort of costly material component?
Lafing Cat 02-12-07, 05:00 AM	Actually it takes 11 rounds to do that damage, because the first round is spent casting the spell (Casting time: 1 round). This ball lightning spell from a 20th level caster would do 105d6 damage in 6 rounds (total, because you can use your swift action to attack in the same round you cast it), and allow only 6 saves from the target(s). Lightning Ring from a 20th level caster does 100d6 in 10 attacks, and allows 20 saves. I'm not going to argue it any further because it seems to me that I'm the only one doing the math for this spell. I'll just say that in its current form I'd never allow it as a 9th level spell that somebody could cast 6 times a day. "number of saves" involved doesn't affect a spells power level. If I give you one save vs 10d6 of damage, or 10 saves vs 1d6 of damage, the average damage taken is still the same. (barring rare instances like the Elan's Resiliance or Moment of Precience) A valid point is that Lightning Ring allows energy resistance more often however. Someone with Lightning Resistance 10 is going to knock 200 points of damage off Lightning Ring, and only 60 points off of your spell. I'd say its a bit strong for 8th level.
CelestialBarbarian 02-12-07, 07:44 AM	Thanks everyone for the feedback! Based on the earlier comments, I reduced the duration to 1 round/level and introduced the concept of "losing" a bolt if you don't cast it in its appropriate round. I also noticed that above 20th level the spell duration outlasts the number of bolts, so I also introduced a concept of "holding" the sequence of bolts one round for every caster level above 20th. I kept the concept of losing 1d6/round (except on a round for which you can "hold" a bolt if your caster level exceeds 20). The party's 21st-level wizard learned this version of ball lightning and gave it to his familiar as her Familar Spell. Since I'd already downgraded it from the earlier version (the one I posted) and we've actually already used it in play, I'm going to stick with the version I've discussed in this post until such time, if ever, that it strikes me as too powerful. I really appreciate all the feedback, and as you can see, considered what you all had to say. You guys are great! Thanks. :)
CantripN 02-12-07, 08:11 AM	So long as you have fun playing the game, I'm not one to judge. I will note I wouldn't allow this spell as is into my game, since it's quite a bit better than any other damaging 8th level spell, but to each hit own. I'd allow it if it had a Cap of 25d6 and got bumped down by 2d6 a round, use it or not. That's still a world of hurt, but it no longer decimates armies. Cheers, Cantrip. :)
CelestialBarbarian 02-12-07, 09:25 AM	So long as you have fun playing the game, I'm not one to judge. I will note I wouldn't allow this spell as is into my game, since it's quite a bit better than any other damaging 8th level spell, but to each hit own. I'd allow it if it had a Cap of 25d6 and got bumped down by 2d6 a round, use it or not. That's still a world of hurt, but it no longer decimates armies. Cheers, Cantrip. :) It currently has a cap of 20d6, and as I recall, making it fall 1d6/round whether you use it or not was your suggestion! :)
CantripN 02-12-07, 09:30 AM	It currently has a cap of 20d6, and as I recall, making it fall 1d6/round whether you use it or not was your suggestion! :) "It's hard enough to remember my opinions, but to remember the reasons?" I really meant to use the first suggestion. The second one was the Munchkin in me speaking.
CelestialBarbarian 02-12-07, 10:44 AM	"It's hard enough to remember my opinions, but to remember the reasons?" I really meant to use the first suggestion. The second one was the Munchkin in me speaking. In that case, welcome to the Lollypop League. :D It's too late now, I've already put the spell in operation. I'm not going to change it mid-encounter. I didn't realize that there were any munchkins in Israel. Did they migrate there in the great Oz disapora? ;)