Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 12-06-03, 11:03 AM	In the PHB it is stated that all Bard spells have verbal components. However, what is the purpose of this statement if all the spells listed on the Bard's spell list have a V component anyway ? Or did I miss some spell(s) which are on their list, but are normally listed w/o a V component ? And can Bards research new spells not on their spell lists ? (eg. creating your own new spell as a Wizard could, not just take a spell from another class spell list) If they can, then I would presume that the statement is there to make sure that those new created spells have a V component. :confused:
Tae Kwon Dan 12-06-03, 11:16 AM	Per my understanding any spell casting class can research new spells. Thus that would be part of the reason. I think that statement was also meant to be a pre-cursor to the ruling that Bards can't use Silent Spell on their spells.
Shadowfax7 12-06-03, 02:58 PM	Ahh, I had forgotten about the Silent Spell feat. The statement about Bard spells needing a V component makes more sense now. However, as far as researching Bard spells . . . for Wizards it specifically states they can, for Sorcerers it states indirectly that they have the option, but there is no similar statement about Bards ?
Kyuketsukiouji 12-06-03, 03:15 PM	Anyone who can cast spells can research them. Obviously, though, some classes will be a lot better at it than others.
BlackSmith 12-06-03, 03:16 PM	for sorcers and bards there is realy no use to point out the research part. they choose their spells so they don't need to research them at all BUT if either one want's an nonexisting spell they have to get their hands on it before they can "learn" it. thus researching is only needed if done non existing spell.
Shadowfax7 12-06-03, 04:33 PM	Thats just it . . . if a Wizard character's player wanted to create an original new spell (one not on any list or in any published material), s/he could. Can a Sorcerer and a Bard do the same ?
Bloodtide_the_Red 12-06-03, 10:23 PM	I've always thought that any spellcaster could create a new spell....though looking through the core books, I can't find it. Looks like bards and sorceres can not research new spells. It's not listed under 'adding new spells' in the PH. And says they can only gain spells by 'gaing levels and no otherway'. So, by the book, they can't create spells BT
zodiki 12-06-03, 10:50 PM	A bard or sorcerer researches a new spell and holds it ready (in memory or written on a scroll (with scribe scroll) until they are given a spell slot to fill it with - either by a new level or when they get to switch one out. It may not be specifically written as a rule, but it's in the spirit of the rules so I'd allow it (and I wouldn't feel bad about arguing it's validity to my DM).
BlaineTog 12-06-03, 11:04 PM	While they cannot actualyl create spells, there's no rule (that I know of) that keeps the Bard/Sorcerer from "learning" a spell at the level that the Player made up. Sorcerer's don't really know *where* they get their spells from (they jsut *appear,* you might say). Why not from the player? (tee hee). I'm sure there's a similar excuse- I mean, EXPLAINATION for Bards as well;). However, what is the purpose of this statement if all the spells listed on the Bard's spell list have a V component anyway ? Well, it's only an extra "V, " per spell. Not to mention that many Bard spells are also Sor/Wiz/Clc/Drd (don't know about the last 1) as well.
Shadowfax7 12-07-03, 02:46 AM	You are correct in that it's not specifically stated under "Adding new Spells" in the PHB that Bards and Sorcerers can research their own spells . . . But, at least under the Sorcerer class description in regards to spells known it states: "These new spells can be common spells chosen from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list or they can be unusual spells that the Sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study". Nothing like this is stated under the Bard class description. . .
Shadowfax7 12-09-03, 04:38 PM	:bump: Any other opinions ??