Bard spells, verbal components, and impersonating a Red Wizard. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bard spells, verbal components, and impersonating a Red Wizard. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The Simbul
05-04-05, 12:48 AM So I began the finishing touches for my Bard/Spymaster PC, including several backstories for my cover identities, one of which was a Red Wizard (Enchanter) identity used to spy on Thayan Enclaves and the Zulkirs. My character's method of getting away with this was predicated on the fact that Bards have access to many Enchantment spells above most other schools, lots of UMD ranks, and given the abuseability of the Forgery skill (your opponent needs ranks in it to determine if something is fake) I was going to carry around a fake "traveling spellbook" that convieniently contained most of my Bard spells known. Unfortunately, four little and almost inconsequential words in the Bard class description completely derailed my plans;Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music).So basically despite having maxed ranks in Disguise and Bluff, the full range of Spymaster cover identity abilities (divinations can reveal only information about my cover identy, not me), and a handful of identity and appearence concealing spells, in the end it is of little avail since every time I pretend to cast spells as a Wizard the end result is that I must sing to do it.... :mad:

Would it be too far fetched to allow a custom feat, spell, magic item, or alternative skill use that would allow this character to disguise their spells to appear as their Sor/Wiz versions? I really want to play a Spymaster with spells, and I dont want to actually have to replace the Bard levels with Sorcerer or Wizard levels given that I need a Bards class skills, skill points, and class-specific spells (like Silence, Glibness, Listening Coin, etc) to do everything I plan on doing with the given character.

Any thoughts?
cannywizard
05-04-05, 03:41 AM Silence Spell feat to remove the verbal component?
green_yawgmoth
05-04-05, 04:00 AM I'd say the Nonverbal Spell feat in PlHB would do the trick and let you use "alternative" V components.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Ra-Tiel
05-04-05, 06:36 AM Hi.

@cannywizard:

Silence Spell feat to remove the verbal component?

Sorry, but a bard can never use Silent Spell:

SILENT SPELL [METAMAGIC]

Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected. A silent spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.

Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat.

Note the "Special" line. So this is not an option.

@The Simbul:

In my opinion, you've got three options:

Bite it and remove the Red Wizard personality from your repertoire, as RAW there is no way around this at least as far as I can tell.
Bite your DM into houseruling it.
Play an egocentrical Red Wizard that has customized all his spells into symphonies from his favored slave singers.

I personally would most likely go with option "c".

Other guy: "Hey, why are you singing???"
You: "You dare to critizice my magic, you worm??" *charm*
Other guy: "No, sorry. Was just a stupid mistake from me. Really sorry about that..."
You: :D

Just my opinion.

Greetings,
_Ra-Tiel.
runestar
05-04-05, 07:08 AM When you think about it, if your bard is singing or reciting in some obscure langauge, how is the foe supposed to know if it isn't just another spell incantation in some obscure langauge? If you look at some of the songs permeating the market today, some of them sound like some esoteric blend of draconic and abyssmal anyway. Also, some songs sound like the singer was just reading the words off the score word for word.

I say with a good enough bluff or perform check, you should be able to pull this off.
Just curious Simbul, do all your campaigns somehow revolve round the red wizards? :D
Northwest
05-04-05, 11:32 AM Well, in one of the books, there is a feat which I think is called Subtle Spellcasting. It allows bardic spellcasting while performing without it appearing like you are obviously casting a spell. If a feat allows this, I would say that either this same feat combined with the Bluff/Perform mentioned earlier would suffice, or perhaps a different Homebrew feat.
smrtgmp
05-05-05, 05:36 PM I dont know how well it would fit your back story, but have you concidered the Chameleon PrC (Races of Destiny)?

If you're impersonating a red wizard, you're probably human, so that prereq would be easy to make. Bards get all the class skills you need to easily qualify, and it would enable you to cast arcane spells (among other things) using a spellbook. Plus Chameleon and Master spy mesh really well flavorwise.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Simbul 05-04-05, 12:48 AM	So I began the finishing touches for my Bard/Spymaster PC, including several backstories for my cover identities, one of which was a Red Wizard (Enchanter) identity used to spy on Thayan Enclaves and the Zulkirs. My character's method of getting away with this was predicated on the fact that Bards have access to many Enchantment spells above most other schools, lots of UMD ranks, and given the abuseability of the Forgery skill (your opponent needs ranks in it to determine if something is fake) I was going to carry around a fake "traveling spellbook" that convieniently contained most of my Bard spells known. Unfortunately, four little and almost inconsequential words in the Bard class description completely derailed my plans;Every bard spell has a verbal component (singing, reciting, or music).So basically despite having maxed ranks in Disguise and Bluff, the full range of Spymaster cover identity abilities (divinations can reveal only information about my cover identy, not me), and a handful of identity and appearence concealing spells, in the end it is of little avail since every time I pretend to cast spells as a Wizard the end result is that I must sing to do it.... :mad: Would it be too far fetched to allow a custom feat, spell, magic item, or alternative skill use that would allow this character to disguise their spells to appear as their Sor/Wiz versions? I really want to play a Spymaster with spells, and I dont want to actually have to replace the Bard levels with Sorcerer or Wizard levels given that I need a Bards class skills, skill points, and class-specific spells (like Silence, Glibness, Listening Coin, etc) to do everything I plan on doing with the given character. Any thoughts?
cannywizard 05-04-05, 03:41 AM	Silence Spell feat to remove the verbal component?
green_yawgmoth 05-04-05, 04:00 AM	I'd say the Nonverbal Spell feat in PlHB would do the trick and let you use "alternative" V components. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Ra-Tiel 05-04-05, 06:36 AM	Hi. @cannywizard: Silence Spell feat to remove the verbal component? Sorry, but a bard can never use Silent Spell: SILENT SPELL [METAMAGIC] Benefit: A silent spell can be cast with no verbal components. Spells without verbal components are not affected. A silent spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level. Special: Bard spells cannot be enhanced by this metamagic feat. Note the "Special" line. So this is not an option. @The Simbul: In my opinion, you've got three options: Bite it and remove the Red Wizard personality from your repertoire, as RAW there is no way around this at least as far as I can tell. Bite your DM into houseruling it. Play an egocentrical Red Wizard that has customized all his spells into symphonies from his favored slave singers. I personally would most likely go with option "c". Other guy: "Hey, why are you singing???" You: "You dare to critizice my magic, you worm??" charm Other guy: "No, sorry. Was just a stupid mistake from me. Really sorry about that..." You: :D Just my opinion. Greetings, _Ra-Tiel.
runestar 05-04-05, 07:08 AM	When you think about it, if your bard is singing or reciting in some obscure langauge, how is the foe supposed to know if it isn't just another spell incantation in some obscure langauge? If you look at some of the songs permeating the market today, some of them sound like some esoteric blend of draconic and abyssmal anyway. Also, some songs sound like the singer was just reading the words off the score word for word. I say with a good enough bluff or perform check, you should be able to pull this off. Just curious Simbul, do all your campaigns somehow revolve round the red wizards? :D
Northwest 05-04-05, 11:32 AM	Well, in one of the books, there is a feat which I think is called Subtle Spellcasting. It allows bardic spellcasting while performing without it appearing like you are obviously casting a spell. If a feat allows this, I would say that either this same feat combined with the Bluff/Perform mentioned earlier would suffice, or perhaps a different Homebrew feat.
smrtgmp 05-05-05, 05:36 PM	I dont know how well it would fit your back story, but have you concidered the Chameleon PrC (Races of Destiny)? If you're impersonating a red wizard, you're probably human, so that prereq would be easy to make. Bards get all the class skills you need to easily qualify, and it would enable you to cast arcane spells (among other things) using a spellbook. Plus Chameleon and Master spy mesh really well flavorwise.