Post/Author/DateTime	Post
knightserpent 04-23-04, 07:05 PM	I am playing my first bard, and am being as helpful as a third level bard can be... but the rest of the party is higher in level (7-8th). I have just leveled and am able to get a second level spell. I have a few lined out for noncombat, but would like one that can be used especially for combat. So my question to you all is: What is the most potent offensive second level spell that a bard can have. Please tell me where I can find it too. Thank you all.
TheRedRobedWizard 04-23-04, 08:55 PM	Soundburst. PHB. -TRRW
knightserpent 04-23-04, 10:20 PM	I was dreading that answer. Oh well.
Boondoggle 04-24-04, 04:10 AM	Originally posted by TheRedRobedWizard Soundburst. PHB. :rofl: Soundburst is about the bards worst offensive spell. You want glitterdust. It's an area blindness that works on fighters and allows everyone to target invisible opponents (but not negate the concealment).
Bedevere 04-24-04, 04:21 AM	Got a rogue in the party? Invisibility. He will love you for it. If the DM is keen on monsters with potions/acid, a shatter spell can stop them in their tracks. Loses you potential loot, though. Silence will stop enemy spellcasters, though with a will save, not very often. Hold person, even in its 3.5 form, can be very useful. Just a few alternatives to standard damage dealing spells. :D
smrtgmp 04-24-04, 05:12 AM	Dont foget the various cure spells. They can be a real life saver when the party cleric goes down for the count.
Boondoggle 04-24-04, 05:20 AM	Bards can't cast enough spells per day to devote one of their few spells known to a cure spell. That's what wands are for.
Wizard 04-24-04, 05:27 AM	Hmm...you know, as a 3rd-level character in a higher-level party, you'll probably be more effective as a support character. Perhaps you could try to fill the buff holes the cleric leaves?
TheRedRobedWizard 04-24-04, 10:11 AM	See, when I hear the words "offensive spell" I think of a spell that can cause damage. Direct damage. Glitterdust may be an "offensive spell" to some people, but to me it falls under the "support spell" category. Soundburst is one of the few true "offensive spells" in the bard spell list. If, on the other hand, you meant a "generally useful in combat" spell, I would go with: Invisibility, Rage, Silence, Hold Person, Mirror Image, or (any buff spell). -TRRW
knightserpent 04-24-04, 07:06 PM	Thanks for your replys. I am now up to a level where I can know three second level spells. The ones I have chosen are Hold Person, Rage, and Sound Burst.
primemover003 04-24-04, 09:37 PM	How is it that you are so many levels behind the rest of the party? You're just asking to become fodder! Your DM must be out of his mind... You shouldn't be able to do much against a balanced encounter for the higher level PC's...
Boondoggle 04-25-04, 04:34 AM	Originally posted by TheRedRobedWizard See, when I hear the words "offensive spell" I think of a spell that can cause damage. Direct damage. Bards' spells aren't designed to deal direct damage. Attempting to be a bard evoker is a weak idea, especially when you're significantly behind the rest of the party. Bards' spells are designed to hamper and incapacitate opponents. Glitterdust, blindness/deafness, hold person, T's hideous laughter, confusion, etc. are bards' offensive spells.
TheRedRobedWizard 04-25-04, 08:27 AM	*sigh* I wasn't trying to turn the Bard into an Evoker. He said "offensive spell". To me, no matter what class is being discussed, that means a spell that does direct damage. Combat spell and Offensive spell are two different things. To me, anyway. -TRRW
Boondoggle 04-26-04, 06:06 AM	I mean no offense (and please pardon the pun), but if your only notion of 'offensive' spells are those that deal direct damage, your terminology is severly lacking. Offensive spells are, by definition, those that attack and attempt to disable or kill your foes directly. Combat spells are those used in combat.
Look Within My Mind 04-26-04, 06:24 AM	And thats why I break my spells down into 10 different categories.. Attack Defense Spell Defense Remove Defenses Interfering Utility Ward Spell Storing Transport Summoning Look Within :mage:
knightserpent 04-28-04, 12:20 AM	Originally posted by primemover003 How is it that you are so many levels behind the rest of the party? You're just asking to become fodder! Your DM must be out of his mind... You shouldn't be able to do much against a balanced encounter for the higher level PC's... I dont think I am too far behind. I am fifth level. As I stated, I had increased above third level. There are two fifth, a sixth, two seventh, and an eighth. I appologize to you all for the confusion about the "offensive" thing. No need to worry about it any more.
CaoSlayer 04-28-04, 06:16 AM	je je je, I have a more simple definition an offesive spell can be: Single - Multi Targered and warrior - mage killer. In my sig there is a link with all PHB bards spells described. indeed, ofensive isnt damage dealing... and a evocation bard... well, isnt a good idea at lower levels, but once you learn cacophonic burst, shout and fanfare becomes a middle option.