Bardic music suggestion ability usage limits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bardic music suggestion ability usage limits [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
04-27-06, 02:16 AM I was wondering about the limits of the bardic music suggestion ability. It doesn't count against bardic music usages per day, but is rather does as part of a fascinate attempt.

So, let's say your a sixth level bard with 18 charisma. You formulate a slightly reasonable sounding suggestion ("All that gear and armor and weapons looks so heavy... I'm sure you'd be much more comfortable if you weren't carrying so much."), and walk up to someone suggestable, fascinate him, and want to implement your suggestion. So how does this work? The creature is fascinated for a number of rounds equal to bard level (6), if the bard chooses to remain concentration that long. Does the suggestion attempt look like this?

Round 1: Fascinate
Round 2. Suggestion. Enemy must make DC 17 will save to negate.
Round 3: Suggestion again, if it didn't work the first time.
Round 4. Suggestion again.
Round 5. Suggestion again.
Round 6. Suggestion again.
Round 7. Fascinate ends.

Am I reading this correctly? Or is there some reason you can't repeatedly make suggestions so long as your target is fascinated until he finally fails the will save?
Shadowfax7
04-27-06, 01:32 PM You are reading it correctly.

The only cost is a standard action to Suggest each round.
Vaelan
04-27-06, 07:58 PM Am I reading this correctly? Or is there some reason you can't repeatedly make suggestions so long as your target is fascinated until he finally fails the will save?
Succeeding a saving throw makes you aware of an attack against you. Nothing in the Suggestion or Fascinate abilities negates this fact.

Before someone bothers posting the two rules that are commonly used to justify this misruling, I am aware of them and I am aware that you are trying to apply them in a manner that is not suggested by the rules.
Nom
04-27-06, 11:20 PM "A bard of 6th level or higher with 9 or more ranks in a Perform skill can make a suggestion (as the spell) to a creature that he has already fascinated."

I read this as "can make one suggestion to one creature that he has already fascinated". Any other reading suggests that the bard can basically make infinite suggestion checks and makes the mass suggestion ability look rather odd.

Note that the rules are quite explicit that making a "suggestion" does not provoke a second saving throw against the fascinate, as per the "potential threat" rules in fascinate.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 04-27-06, 02:16 AM	I was wondering about the limits of the bardic music suggestion ability. It doesn't count against bardic music usages per day, but is rather does as part of a fascinate attempt. So, let's say your a sixth level bard with 18 charisma. You formulate a slightly reasonable sounding suggestion ("All that gear and armor and weapons looks so heavy... I'm sure you'd be much more comfortable if you weren't carrying so much."), and walk up to someone suggestable, fascinate him, and want to implement your suggestion. So how does this work? The creature is fascinated for a number of rounds equal to bard level (6), if the bard chooses to remain concentration that long. Does the suggestion attempt look like this? Round 1: Fascinate Round 2. Suggestion. Enemy must make DC 17 will save to negate. Round 3: Suggestion again, if it didn't work the first time. Round 4. Suggestion again. Round 5. Suggestion again. Round 6. Suggestion again. Round 7. Fascinate ends. Am I reading this correctly? Or is there some reason you can't repeatedly make suggestions so long as your target is fascinated until he finally fails the will save?
Shadowfax7 04-27-06, 01:32 PM	You are reading it correctly. The only cost is a standard action to Suggest each round.
Vaelan 04-27-06, 07:58 PM	Am I reading this correctly? Or is there some reason you can't repeatedly make suggestions so long as your target is fascinated until he finally fails the will save? Succeeding a saving throw makes you aware of an attack against you. Nothing in the Suggestion or Fascinate abilities negates this fact. Before someone bothers posting the two rules that are commonly used to justify this misruling, I am aware of them and I am aware that you are trying to apply them in a manner that is not suggested by the rules.
Nom 04-27-06, 11:20 PM	"A bard of 6th level or higher with 9 or more ranks in a Perform skill can make a suggestion (as the spell) to a creature that he has already fascinated." I read this as "can make one suggestion to one creature that he has already fascinated". Any other reading suggests that the bard can basically make infinite suggestion checks and makes the mass suggestion ability look rather odd. Note that the rules are quite explicit that making a "suggestion" does not provoke a second saving throw against the fascinate, as per the "potential threat" rules in fascinate.