Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Majick 05-13-05, 02:42 AM	Do bards and sorcerers require spell components or spell focus materials to cast? thanks peoples
smrtgmp 05-13-05, 02:44 AM	yes. Though it seems to be a somewhat common houserule to give sorcerers eschew materials as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Seeker95 05-13-05, 09:44 AM	Agreeing with smrtgmp, and adding a bit more to his "eschew materials for free" comment. Sorcerers especially "learn" their spells by accident. They just realize at some point that they know them. If they are required to actually use the material components to cast spells, it might make one wonder how the fireball sorcerer ever discovered he could cast the spell. I mean, how many folks ever really play with bat crap?
Nephlite 05-13-05, 10:41 AM	Agreeing with smrtgmp, and adding a bit more to his "eschew materials for free" comment. Sorcerers especially "learn" their spells by accident. They just realize at some point that they know them. If they are required to actually use the material components to cast spells, it might make one wonder how the fireball sorcerer ever discovered he could cast the spell. I mean, how many folks ever really play with bat crap? Makes me wonder how the first wizard realized that too *eww*
Seeker95 05-13-05, 11:54 AM	Makes me wonder how the first wizard realized that too *eww*Wizards are naturally curious. Just like the scientist that discovered penicillin from mold. For the scientific mind, nothing is off limits to explore. But sorcerers don't tend to come with scientific minds. :D
CaoSlayer 05-13-05, 12:31 PM	and about bards, remember that they must be able to speak or perform (this last one isnt clear) because they cant never remove the Verbal component of their spells.
tarkin 05-13-05, 01:23 PM	Officially, Bards and Sorcerors definitely need V,S,M etc. components As to the "somewhat common house rule", bit, I agree if you place the following restrictions in front of it: 0) This "house rule" is mostly only done to sorcerors, not bards. 1) Among the people that think Sorceror are weaker than Wizards (not a majority of the players) and... 2) Among the people that think it is OK to boost power (i.e. power gamers/munchkins), who tend to be far more vocal than the others and ... 3) Among the people that falsely think of Sorcerors as psionic type magic It is a common House Rule. But if you go to a convention, most games played will not use anything at all like that house rule, even among games that use house rules. In my personal opinion, it is a huge power boost that Sorcerors do not need. If I were to design a high power game, I would probably swap out the Familiar benefit for a Sorceror and grant them Eschew Materials instead. Sorcerors are basically supposed to be Self Taught WIZARDS - not Psionics. Gandalf for example is clearly a Sorceror, not a Wizard (He knows very few spells, has no spell book, and rarely consults any kind of book)
Finarin Panjoro 05-13-05, 01:34 PM	I grant sorcerors eschew materials as a virtual feat at 1st level, but it only applies to sorceror spells, nothing else, including spells from sorceror PrCs. Off Topic: Gandalf is clearly a paladin. (fights with a sword, heals people with a touch, turns undead, has a special steed, etc). He just doesn't care for armor. :D
smrtgmp 05-13-05, 07:16 PM	I'd say Gandalf is more of a demi-god.
RaspK FOG 05-13-05, 08:21 PM	Wizards are naturally curious. Just like the scientist that discovered penicillin from mold.That's Flemming for you. And, seriously, I ran magic more psionic-like; to be exact, more Vance-like (that is, wizards have two spell point ratings: spell memorisation points [effectively, what spells they remember and whether they should look up a spell], and spell casting points; sorcerers have only the). However, memorisation works more like Sovereign Stone; that is, you know some spells, and the rest (most of them) you have to check through everytime you want to cast them. Spell Mastery reduces the cost in spell points by 1 (regular spell point costs equal 2 × spell level).
Xill-Lord Psionic Might 05-13-05, 09:00 PM	Sorcerors are basically supposed to be Self Taught WIZARDS - not Psionics. Gandalf for example is clearly a Sorceror, not a Wizard (He knows very few spells, has no spell book, and rarely consults any kind of book) No No No, he is a wizards, one of the five wizards of middle earth including sauraumn the white, mithrandir (the dwaven name for gandalf) the gray, In fact galfdalf is a "maia" which in Elvish is a demigod, the is also radghast the brown who does not apear in LOTR, also there are two other "blue wizards" alatar and pallando the wizards of middle earth can be more acuately described as cleric if not gods, becuase they were created by the valar (increidibly distant dietys of middle earth by DnD standards) However Tolkien as we all know existed long before our humble RPG when wizards and sorcerors are synonimious Gandalf cannot be held by DnD standards for determining class sorry 'bout the rant.....i love Tolkien
Xill-Lord Psionic Might 05-13-05, 09:03 PM	PS all togeather these five wizards belonged to an order named by the elves "Istari"
Seeker95 05-14-05, 09:21 AM	No No No, he [Gandalf] is a wizards, one of the five wizards of middle earthJust because Tolkein called him a wizard doesn't make him a wizard in D&D.
RaspK FOG 05-14-05, 09:37 AM	Just because Tolkein called him a wizard doesn't make him a wizard in D&D.The wizards of Middle Earth resemble the medieval meaning of the word "wizard" (that is, "wise man").
Seeker95 05-14-05, 12:59 PM	The wizards of Middle Earth resemble the medieval meaning of the word "wizard" (that is, "wise man").Very true. But it still does not make Gandalf a D&D wizard. In D&D, we call that a sage.