Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sotha_syl 07-11-07, 04:01 PM	I don't know why it hasn't occured to me before, but now I realize, Bards are completely amazing. Suggestion is amazing. "Hey, you know that weapons are dangerous. You really shouldn't be taking the risk of hurting yourself, you shouldn't be using weapons." Perfectly reasonable suggestion that would last for, oh, 1 hour/level. Big bad fighter/Barbarian/Paladin/Ranger boss taken down. But most of what I am noticing is the Bard's simple ability to take complete control over politics, local happeninings, diplomacies, important issues, or even mundane conversations. Wizards and Sorcerers have limited control, they get the suggestion spell later than the bard and a few others, and they make good controllers in battle, with all the dominate spells and the enchantment school of magic. But to be honest, the Bard is just the best non-combat class in existence. The best class skill list in the game (Though they are lacking in forgery, which makes me angry) and nearly the skill points of the rogue, not to mention they can do okay in combat situations, they aren't terrible. I just thing people overlook Bardic spells and the usefulness of charisma. A 6th level Bard could easily and creatively defeat a level 18 Barbarian/2 Fighter who's been min-maxing and doing feat chains and proper builds since level one. Just cast false lie on him (Complete Mage) and Glamour (I think spell compendium, or something. I doubt I have the name right, but a big fat +30 on bluff checks) on yourself, and accuse him of a murder or two in a metropolis, and bam, he gets thrown in jail for a very long time or executed. Either way, CR 20 encounter defeated by a 6th level character. Of course there are some hooks in that situation, but I believe the point has been made. Bard spells and abilities are often overlooked, along with the charisma stat as being useless. I believe it is because a lot of D&D players (cough*CharOp Boards*cough) have become uncreative powergamers and munchkins who don't pay any attention to a large part of D&D, which is roleplaying and social interaction. I mean, I miss the good old days when a well placed dimplomacy or bluff check was more useful than a fireball or full attack action. Or when +1 on AC or attack rolls actually meant something, but instead all the responses I get to using feats or items that do that, is that there are "more efficient and better ways to spend money or feats, noob." It isn't all about optimizing numbers, people.
Elana 07-11-07, 04:09 PM	I personally think it's the flavor text accompanying the class. When they wrote the bard they were to focussed on music, to even consider putting enough thought into the other possibilities. (Just flavor textwise. The class still has the full potential it should have)
green_yawgmoth 07-11-07, 04:18 PM	1. Suggestion suggests something reasonable to that person. Suggesting to a fighter, who most likely regards his sword as an extension of his owm arm, that he should just get rid of it would be akin to you telling an epic wizard that books are made of deadly deadly poison and he should burn his collection. 2. A level 20 encounter with a fighter will never happen in a city. If it does, it's not a level 20 encounter, because he won't be fighting. If he is fighting, unless there's some level 18+ NPC guards around, no one's gonna be able to stop him, because he's most likely there to kill everyone. Secondly, so what if you can make a convincing "he killed jimmy!" yell. It takes real evidence to convict someone in a non-stupid city; and even if you did manage, unless they've got some high level magic keeping him there, he's gonna break out, hunt you, and kill you. 3. Your D&D can be all conversing with nobles and diplomacy and whatever other noncombat "encounters" you want. It will be just as much D&D as the group of guys who run nothing but dungeon delves with characters named Beef McLargehuge and Splint Chesthair. No more, no less; equally D&D. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
CantripN 07-11-07, 04:41 PM	Aye, bards are cool, but let's keep it in proportion. A 20th level Melee person may be inferior to a spellcaster of equal level, but to little else. If need be, said 20th level can decimate cities and nations on his own. So long as you keep it civil, Bards rock. Once the going gets rough, others will shine more than your typical bard.
Khatoblepas 07-11-07, 05:23 PM	....Beef McLargehuge and Splint Chesthair... Firstly, those names rock. Mind if I steal them for NPC mooks? :P Anyway, in terms of Bards, you have to think outside the box. Small troop of (level 1-3) goblin warriors inside a large enemy complex? Don't be so fast to kill them off! Bard steps up, Fascinates them, then starts to suggest that each of them do something appealing, but counter to the enemy's plans. "Goblin Mook No. 3, it's rather hot and stuffy in here, why don't you open the doors? Goblin Mook No. 55, why don't you go get the rest of your troops some drinks? War is thirsty work, after all. Goblin Mook No. 13, maybe you'd better report to the chief and tell him all's clear. The rest of you, take the day off." Heheheh. Soon, all the goblins will be tripping over the rest of the troops just to follow your commands!
green_yawgmoth 07-12-07, 01:28 PM	Firstly, those names rock. Mind if I steal them for NPC mooks? :P Go ahead, I stole them from an MST3K episode. ;) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif