Base vs Enhanced INT score [Archive] - Wizards Community

Base vs Enhanced INT score [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Quetzy
07-27-05, 06:34 PM Ok, this is probably a recurring question, but I need to be sure cause I've heard quite a few contradictions on this (about erratas etc.):

Are bonus spells per day calculated based on base or modified INT? (iow. does a Headband of Intellect give extra spell slots?)

As far as I see from RAW, the only thing which base int is applied for are skill points on level-up. Is it really the only thing or are there other cases?
DarknessEternal
07-27-05, 06:38 PM As far as I'm aware, Skill Points are the only thing in _ALL_ of D&D calculated on a base value.
journeyman777
07-27-05, 06:57 PM Depends on the source. For headband of intellect the answer is yes (just make sure you don't take it off before casting those bonus spells) For Fox's Cunning the answer is no because the spell description specifies that it does not grant bonus spells. Why a magic item grants bonus spells when its prereq spell doesn't, I have no clue. Just more strange rulings on magic from the Wizards, I guess.
Quetzy
07-27-05, 07:17 PM Ahh, yes, it was Fox Cunning that got changed in this regard from 3.0 to 3.5! Guess the problem they had with it was that everyone would use it prior to memorizing in order to get that one and even more spell slots right back. And if everyone would be using it, guess it must be bad *sigh* (as if there is anyone not using mage armor :P)
Funny thing is, they also reduced the duration of the spell so even if the text still allowed it, it couldn't be done anyway (without the persistent spell that is)

Anyway, yep, thanks for clearing that up.
*adds Headband of Intellect to his to-do list*
The Simbul
07-27-05, 08:05 PM It doesnt matter what edition of D&D you are using, Fox's Cunning, Eagle's Splendor, and Owl's Wisdom never granted bonus spells per day.

Headband of Intellect, Cloak of Charisma, and Periapt of Wisdom do count for purposes of bonus spells per day, although you can potentially lose those spells if the item is removed, dispelled, or you otherwise lose the benefits of it. While it does not explicitly come out and state that these items do add to your bonus spells, they likewise do not explicitly state that they do not. However, the standard 20th level NPC Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard all have +6 enhancement bonus items to their spellcasting ability score, and their spells per day are calculated using their enhanced ability score rather than their base score.

Obviously, ability increases from Wishes, Tomes, and Manuals likewise increase bonus spells. In addition, virtually any other effect that can boost your spellcasting ability score for more than 24 hours can be construed as granting bonus spells as well, although such effects are rare.
Antioch
07-28-05, 02:37 AM According to the FAQ they are, but it must be worn during the entire prep time.
If removed, you immediately lose all your bonus spell slots, starting with uncast spells.
High Octane
07-28-05, 02:52 AM Temporary effects dont, but effects that hold indefinitly do count.

So Fox's cunning does not, but Fox's cunning with a permanancy spell attached so it is permanent until dispelled or dismissed does count.
The Simbul
07-28-05, 03:27 AM Temporary effects dont, but effects that hold indefinitly do count.

So Fox's cunning does not, but Fox's cunning with a permanancy spell attached so it is permanent until dispelled or dismissed does count.Well no;
Fox’s Cunning
Transmutation
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes
The transmuted creature becomes smarter. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, adding the usual benefits to Intelligence-based skill checks and other uses of the Intelligence modifier. Wizards (and other spellcasters who rely on Intelligence) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Intelligence, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase. This spell doesn’t grant extra skill points.
Arcane Material Component: A few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a fox.
Fox's Cunning doesnt grant bonus spells ever, under any circumstances. The limitation isnt because of the duration, its because the spell explicitly states that it doesnt serve that function at all.
Starmage21
07-28-05, 11:36 AM I agree with the Simbul.

I also believe that its not a far stretch to allow a permanent version of the spell (or a permanencied spell) to grant the bonus spells as a house rule. Talk to your DM.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quetzy 07-27-05, 06:34 PM	Ok, this is probably a recurring question, but I need to be sure cause I've heard quite a few contradictions on this (about erratas etc.): Are bonus spells per day calculated based on base or modified INT? (iow. does a Headband of Intellect give extra spell slots?) As far as I see from RAW, the only thing which base int is applied for are skill points on level-up. Is it really the only thing or are there other cases?
DarknessEternal 07-27-05, 06:38 PM	As far as I'm aware, Skill Points are the only thing in _ALL_ of D&D calculated on a base value.
journeyman777 07-27-05, 06:57 PM	Depends on the source. For headband of intellect the answer is yes (just make sure you don't take it off before casting those bonus spells) For Fox's Cunning the answer is no because the spell description specifies that it does not grant bonus spells. Why a magic item grants bonus spells when its prereq spell doesn't, I have no clue. Just more strange rulings on magic from the Wizards, I guess.
Quetzy 07-27-05, 07:17 PM	Ahh, yes, it was Fox Cunning that got changed in this regard from 3.0 to 3.5! Guess the problem they had with it was that everyone would use it prior to memorizing in order to get that one and even more spell slots right back. And if everyone would be using it, guess it must be bad sigh (as if there is anyone not using mage armor :P) Funny thing is, they also reduced the duration of the spell so even if the text still allowed it, it couldn't be done anyway (without the persistent spell that is) Anyway, yep, thanks for clearing that up. adds Headband of Intellect to his to-do list
The Simbul 07-27-05, 08:05 PM	It doesnt matter what edition of D&D you are using, Fox's Cunning, Eagle's Splendor, and Owl's Wisdom never granted bonus spells per day. Headband of Intellect, Cloak of Charisma, and Periapt of Wisdom do count for purposes of bonus spells per day, although you can potentially lose those spells if the item is removed, dispelled, or you otherwise lose the benefits of it. While it does not explicitly come out and state that these items do add to your bonus spells, they likewise do not explicitly state that they do not. However, the standard 20th level NPC Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard all have +6 enhancement bonus items to their spellcasting ability score, and their spells per day are calculated using their enhanced ability score rather than their base score. Obviously, ability increases from Wishes, Tomes, and Manuals likewise increase bonus spells. In addition, virtually any other effect that can boost your spellcasting ability score for more than 24 hours can be construed as granting bonus spells as well, although such effects are rare.
Antioch 07-28-05, 02:37 AM	According to the FAQ they are, but it must be worn during the entire prep time. If removed, you immediately lose all your bonus spell slots, starting with uncast spells.
High Octane 07-28-05, 02:52 AM	Temporary effects dont, but effects that hold indefinitly do count. So Fox's cunning does not, but Fox's cunning with a permanancy spell attached so it is permanent until dispelled or dismissed does count.
The Simbul 07-28-05, 03:27 AM	Temporary effects dont, but effects that hold indefinitly do count. So Fox's cunning does not, but Fox's cunning with a permanancy spell attached so it is permanent until dispelled or dismissed does count.Well no; Fox’s Cunning Transmutation Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2 Components: V, S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes The transmuted creature becomes smarter. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence, adding the usual benefits to Intelligence-based skill checks and other uses of the Intelligence modifier. Wizards (and other spellcasters who rely on Intelligence) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Intelligence, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase. This spell doesn’t grant extra skill points. Arcane Material Component: A few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a fox. Fox's Cunning doesnt grant bonus spells ever, under any circumstances. The limitation isnt because of the duration, its because the spell explicitly states that it doesnt serve that function at all.
Starmage21 07-28-05, 11:36 AM	I agree with the Simbul. I also believe that its not a far stretch to allow a permanent version of the spell (or a permanencied spell) to grant the bonus spells as a house rule. Talk to your DM.