Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EyelessBeholder 12-13-06, 12:05 PM	We just ended our campaign. With me and my friend versing our other friend. I warlock level eighteen My partner level 18 fighter. Our other friend 18 evil cleric. We go to start our epic battle. I get wail of the bansheed, and have to roll a fortitude save of 37 ...... being a warlock i couldnt have done thins even if i rolled a 20. He said he had some spell from libris mortis cast on him that raised his modifier like 10 points .... and then owls wisom, and not to mentionhe had a 21 wisdom to start with. ..... I say i got **** cause i was invisiable and he shouldnt have even known where i was , but i let it slide and had my character die. WHAT SAY YOU?
Witch 12-13-06, 03:29 PM	I say you should've gotten a Death Ward item.
EyelessBeholder 12-13-06, 03:56 PM	Let me clarify on the fact that the end of my character was invisaible and shoopting his EB. Then next turn the Evil Cleric rides his huge mount through the air and just wailed of bansheed where he thought i was. I think i should get like a percentage chance to not be where he thinks i am. I was 200 ft away .... i mean even with good eyesite its still a dificult task to ride 200ft in a huge magic al device then wail at a spot or area you think something is in.
CantripN 12-13-06, 04:01 PM	Let me clarify on the fact that the end of my character was invisaible and shoopting his EB. Then next turn the Evil Cleric rides his huge mount through the air and just wailed of bansheed where he thought i was. I think i should get like a percentage chance to not be where he thinks i am. I was 200 ft away .... i mean even with good eyesite its still a dificult task to ride 200ft in a huge magic al device then wail at a spot or area you think something is in. You complaining of the DC or the targeting? Assuming he knew where you were within the spell's range, he hits. The DC is fully legal. The only problem could be that he metagamed where you were. Warlock<Pure Caster. Any pure caster SHOULD rip you to shreds with minimal effort. Besides the +10 to DC, I recognize everything. Maybe +10 to Wisdom from Owl's Insight (+5 DC, Insight) AND +4 Wisdom from Owl's Wisdom (+2 DC, Enhancement)? Those stack.
Witch 12-13-06, 04:01 PM	I presume he just has Owls Insight, as well as an enhancement and inherent bonus. Let's see: Wis = 18 (base) + 5 (levels) + 5 (inherent) + 6 (enhancement) +10 (owl's insight) = +17 modifier Final DC = 10 (basic) + 9 (spell level) + 17 = 36
Barrage 12-13-06, 04:02 PM	If you use offensive language, expect to get called on it. Expect it to take away from anything you actually wanted to talk about. If you live in a cave and didnt realize it was offensive, well you do now. Anyway, to your actual question, I think it would be helpful to know the name of this spell. It sounds pretty damn powerful. I dont remember a spell that does that. I also just looked through IMarvinTPAs database (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/Index_Source.php?Sources=Libris) and dont see anything that adds 10 to your DC, or anything to your DC. I think Id question your friend as to the name of this spell. I believe the spell is called Wail of the Banshee. If I remember correctly it is mentioned in the Player's Handbook under the cleric Death domain as a 9th level spell.
EyelessBeholder 12-13-06, 04:03 PM	Anyway, to your actual question, I think it would be helpful to know the name of this spell. It sounds pretty damn powerful. I dont remember a spell that does that. I also just looked through IMarvinTPAs database (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/Index_Source.php?Sources=Libris) and dont see anything that adds 10 to your DC, or anything to your DC. I think Id question your friend as to the name of this spell. Necrotic Empower or Mother Crist
EyelessBeholder 12-13-06, 04:05 PM	You complaining of the DC or the targeting? Assuming he knew where you were within the spell's range, he hits. The DC is fully legal. The only problem could be that he metagamed where you were. Warlock<Pure Caster. Any pure caster SHOULD rip you to shreds with minimal effort. Besides the +10 to DC, I recognize everything. Maybe +10 to Wisdom from Owl's Insight (+5 DC, Insight) AND +4 Wisdom from Owl's Wisdom (+2 DC, Enhancement)? Those stack. Ganted i know Wail isnt a targeting spell its just funky he can roll where to he thinks i am and get to shoot something off like that.
Puca 12-13-06, 04:07 PM	I was 200 ft away .... i mean even with good eyesite its still a dificult task to ride 200ft in a huge magic al device then wail at a spot or area you think something is in.Wail of the Banshee effects a 40' radius spread. Thats freaking huge. He only needs a vague idea of where you are to get you.
CantripN 12-13-06, 04:09 PM	Ganted i know Wail isnt a targeting spell its just funky he can roll where to he thinks i am and get to shoot something off like that. Metagaming and Munchkins aside, High Level Pure Caster > All. If they win initiative, they win. If they lose initiative you get to waste a round and then die, unless they'd been prepared and then you just lost initiative anyway or died without even rolling. Or they have Foresight and Celerity and then it's just: You lose. Warlocks are fun at low-mid levels (never very good). In high levels they are VERY weak.
EyelessBeholder 12-13-06, 04:09 PM	Im just saying he was in something .... i cant remeber what it was but aperantly it could move 200ft ina round and on top of that he could cast his spell i thought you needed mounted casting or something like that ... OR to make some kind of check to ride something thorugh the air and then cast a spell like that.
CantripN 12-13-06, 04:13 PM	Im just saying he was in something .... i cant remeber what it was but aperantly it could move 200ft ina round and on top of that he could cast his spell i thought you needed mounted casting or something like that ... OR to make some kind of check to ride something thorugh the air and then cast a spell like that. Sure, DC 20+Spell Level. 29, in this case. He's a cleric, so he has 21 ranks and a good Con. You reckon he'll fail? That's without feats and/or spells.
Puca 12-13-06, 04:14 PM	I believe the spell is called Wail of the Banshee. If I remember correctly it is mentioned in the Player's Handbook under the cleric Death domain as a 9th level spell. I was talking about the spell that resulted in the increased DC of Wail of the Banshee, making it impossible for him to save. Necrotic Empower or Mother CristIll have to look at my actual book. It sounds pretty hokey to me.
Elendur 12-13-06, 04:14 PM	Wail of the Banshee is close range, so that's 75ft max. It's a 40ft burst, so it wouldn't be that hard to guess where you were, depending on the setup. But yeah, if you are facing a high level wizard, you are gonna get a save or die spell thrown at you. That's one of the complaints people have with high level play, when it becomes a matter of an initiative roll, and long haul characters like fighters or warlocks miss out.
wonlee76 12-13-06, 04:16 PM	Sounds legit except fro that maybe +10 to DC business from some spell in Libris Mortis. You're tossing around EBs at the guy and are invisible. He should know generally where you are barring you using teleportation after launching EBs so I don't see a problem with this knowing Wail of the Banshee has a 40 feet spread radius. DC 37 is pretty high. Minimum DC on Wail is 23. With some magic easily can make that DC a 25. Toss in some spell focus and other magical items, I could see the DC reaching high 20s to low 30s depending on how min/maxed the bad guy is. At level 18, you should be expecting save or die effects. Precautions to take at these levels would be a death ward item/potion/armor/wondrous item or whatever and boosting your save via cloak of resistance and an amulet of health.
Mindolin 12-13-06, 04:21 PM	There are many ways to get around invisiblity. Such as See Invisibility, True Seeing, and even a listen check. Let me remind you that most warlocks wear armor, and don't have move silently. Even the Detect spells would let them know you were there. So yes, he was cheating big time to be able to hit you. Except that he didn't need to. How big was the area you were fighting in? Wail of the Banshee is an area effect spell that targets an area 40 ft radius, thus an 80 ft diameter. You can hit quite a bit with that. As for a DC of 37, that's not that hard to get. I was able to get a DC 32 with just a minimum of effort, with over 300,000 gold left to spend. Also, for those unable to tell, I was being sarcastic about his cheating to hit you.
EyelessBeholder 12-13-06, 04:25 PM	There are many ways to get around invisiblity. Such as See Invisibility, True Seeing, and even a listen check. Let me remind you that most warlocks wear armor, and don't have move silently. Even the Detect spells would let them know you were there. So yes, he was cheating big time to be able to hit you. Except that he didn't need to. How big was the area you were fighting in? Wail of the Banshee is an area effect spell that targets an area 40 ft radius, thus an 80 ft diameter. You can hit quite a bit with that. As for a DC of 37, that's not that hard to get. Also, for those unable to tell, I was being sarcastic about his cheating to hit you. He had none of the ways to see invisiable .... and not to mention he was 200 ft away in the first place .... he just said im in thi sarea Rode out there on his huge thingambob and screamed.
Puca 12-13-06, 04:56 PM	I just checked my book. Necrotic Empowerment adds a +8 enhancement bonus to your Wis. This means that it doesnt stack with Owls Wisdom or a Periapt of Wisdom. 10 + 9 spell level + 9 for an enhanced 29 Wis +2 for Greater Spell Focus = DC 30 He might have gotten the additional 7 to the DC from some other source, optimization isnt my thing and I wouldnt be surprised if he used some tricks I dont know, but I suspect he stacked a couple of bonuses that he shouldnt have.
Witch 12-13-06, 05:07 PM	Oh, Necrotic Empowerement is +8 enhancement? In that case: 18 (base) +5 (leveling) +5 inherent +10 insight (Owl's Insight) +8 enhancement (Necrotic Empowerment) = 46 -> +18 Wis Mod DC = Spell Level + 10 + Wis Mod = 37
Puca 12-13-06, 05:18 PM	I am using IMarvinTPAs site to check this because I do not have Magic of Faerun, but according to that the bonus from Owls Insight is also an enhancement bonus, and wouldnt stack with any other enhancement bonus. Is this information correct?
Witch 12-13-06, 05:20 PM	No. Owl's Insight provides an insight bonus, as of Spell Compendium. The original version may vary.
Puca 12-13-06, 06:16 PM	I stand corrected. It is an insight bonus. (And no errata, which I have to admit I looked for as soon as I saw that.) I still believe that he probably messed up. Owls Insight is a Druid spell, and I suspect that the OP would have mentioned a druid in the mix.
DungeonMaster 12-13-06, 06:57 PM	No. Owl's Insight provides an insight bonus, as of Spell Compendium. The original version may vary. That's hilarious ! Did bull's strength turn into a "strength" bonus? or a "bull" bonus? Is fox's cunning a "cunning" bonus? Or is this a new "druids and clerics alone get really high insight" bonuses? The divine bias in the rules they're producing these days... I'm not surprised the wail was so ridiculously strong what with the "new and improved" huge insight bonus.
NoldorForce 12-13-06, 08:28 PM	An "insight bonus" is not merely a goofy name for the bonus type. It's been used for other things, most notably in 3.5 psionics (insight bonuses to attack, damage, AC, saves, Str, Dex). It also appears in the ELH under such things as the paragon template. There are some strange bonus types out there; insight is not alone in that regard. Why an insight bonus, rather than an enhancement bonus? Probably to allow it to stack with enhancement bonuses--its duration is only an hour. As specified above, Wail of the Banshee's range is Close, and thus the caster couldn't affect you if he was indeed 200' away. I recall someone describing 9th-level spells as WotC's "Eh, who cares about balance at this point?" gesture. Stuff like Wail of the Banshee (AoE save-or-die) doesn't hurt that assessment.
redraven 12-13-06, 08:54 PM	I'm surprised that you survived to 18th level without some ability to get an active Death Ward. At those levels, I do not see any reason not to have the following active all the time and/or active before a known/likely encounter: Death Ward. Freedom of Movement. Mind Blank. Protection from X (Evil, for example). Protection from X can be a suitable substitute for Mind Blank until you have reliable access to the latter. In any case, that suite of spells makes you immune to to all instant death effects beyond Implosion (I believe), shuts down the Enchantment school, and ensures your mobility along with immunity to grappling. Being a Warlock, you should have been able to use scrolls or otherwise craft your own custom items with the above abilities. This seems less of a case of "pure caster slaughters everyone else" and more of "a prepared mage kills an unprepared one."
mvincent 12-13-06, 10:09 PM	I do not see any reason not to have the following active all the time and/or active before a known/likely encounter: Death Ward. Freedom of Movement. Mind Blank. Protection from X (Evil, for example). Good advice. However, Deathward can be difficult to maintain for extended periods. I'd recommend a Scarab of Protection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#scarabofProtection) for this and other such eventualities. "Scarab of Protection This device appears to be a silver medallion in the shape of a beetle. If it is held for 1 round, an inscription appears on its surface letting the holder know that it is a protective device. The scarab’s possessor gains spell resistance 20. The scarab can also absorb energy-draining attacks, death effects, and negative energy effects. Upon absorbing twelve such attacks, the scarab turns to powder and is destroyed. Strong abjuration and necromancy; CL 18th; Craft Wondrous Item, death ward, spell resistance; Price 38,000 gp. "
Bopple 12-13-06, 10:37 PM	While some stuffs in Libris Mortis are way too powerful, any 17+ chars without such protections deserve to die.
runestar 12-13-06, 10:48 PM	There's armour enhancements which provide continuous death ward protection. If you are strapped for cash, there is an alternate armour property in PGTF which erects a death ward the instance you are targetted by a save or die spell.
EyelessBeholder 12-13-06, 11:28 PM	It was basically my frist high level character and i wasnt used to the save vs death protections ... you know ... learn as you go.
Bopple 12-13-06, 11:34 PM	I apologize if I offended. Actually, Death spells or Mind-affecting spells are not much of a problem, for high lvl chars. As an evil cleric, your friend has a much more potent spell - Blasphemy. And I wonder why your dm did not use save-or-die spells. If your dm used them, you could have learned from it.
Vaelan 12-13-06, 11:38 PM	That's hilarious ! Did bull's strength turn into a "strength" bonus? or a "bull" bonus? Is fox's cunning a "cunning" bonus? Or is this a new "druids and clerics alone get really high insight" bonuses? The divine bias in the rules they're producing these days... I'm not surprised the wail was so ridiculously strong what with the "new and improved" huge insight bonus. You're referring to Owl's Wisdom. The spell that grants an Insight bonus is Owl's Insight, which is a few levels higher. I know we shouldn't expect you to keep up with 3.5 material, what with the irrational hatred, but could you at least recognize that you don't know enough about the subject to make a comment without looking dumb? Thanks.
EyelessBeholder 12-14-06, 12:12 AM	Ouch!
runestar 12-14-06, 12:16 AM	The truth always hurts.:(
Talchar 12-14-06, 01:11 AM	The truth hurts. Oh sure, maybe not as much as jumping on a bicycle with a seat missing, but it hurts. - The truth hurts. Oh sure, maybe not as much as being covered in chum at ghoul convention, but it hurts. - The truth hurts. Oh sure, maybe not as much as being paralyzed while in the area effect of a blade barrier, but it hurts. -
journeyman777 12-14-06, 09:17 AM	Oh, Necrotic Empowerement is +8 enhancement? In that case: 18 (base) +5 (leveling) +5 inherent +10 insight (Owl's Insight) +8 enhancement (Necrotic Empowerment) = 46 -> +18 Wis Mod DC = Spell Level + 10 + Wis Mod = 37 Slight errors, he was lv 18, so only +4 from leveling, he probably couldn't afford a +5 inherent (maybe a +4, not that it matters), and Owl's Insight isn't on his spell list. So I'm seeing 18 (or lower) +4 +4 (or lower) +8 = 34 Wis for a mod of +12 10 + 9 + 12 = DC 31 Even with greater spell focus thrown in, the DC shouldn't have been near 37. That player needs to show his math.
Red_Rabbit 12-14-06, 09:41 AM	What if the Cleric had True Seeing or See Invisibility going it's not hard to believe he could of targetting your area. As for the Caster always wins which someone above mentioned that persons full of it. I've finished off large numbers of casters with a Fighter. The Rabbit
Puca 12-14-06, 09:43 AM	The OP said the cleric had a Wis of 21, so it was probably not as high as even that. Something was hinky.
DungeonMaster 12-14-06, 09:47 AM	I know we shouldn't expect you to keep up with 3.5 material, what with the irrational hatred, but could you at least recognize that you don't know enough about the subject to make a comment without looking dumb? Thanks. The hatred is quite rational, you would need special skill to screw up rules the way they've done in 3.5. Only a special kind of fool would decry a question made in honest ignorance as a "dumb comment". This is perhaps the first rule of instruction, and I'm going to presume you weren't implying the questions. I assure you that as ignorant as I am of the specifics of the spell compendium that a large insight bonus to ability scores, and perhaps more importantly a single ability score, is a bad thing for the game - which was the comment . Presuming you beleive the comment to be "dumb" I must understand you to be in abject ignorance of the basic rules of the game, an odd state to be in, since you deplore my lack of specific knowledge of inane optional material.
journeyman777 12-14-06, 10:55 AM	a large insight bonus to ability scores, and perhaps more importantly a single ability score, is a bad thing for the gameI second the sentiment. Any spell that grants a bonus you would need EPIC gear to match is obviously wrong, wrong, wrong! That aside, please don't respond only to inflamatory statements (or make more of them). What if the Cleric had True Seeing or See Invisibility going it's not hard to believe he could of targetting your area.To be fair, True Seeing only sees 120 ft away, the OP was 200 ft away. What I find puzzling is that the cleric seems to have been riding a phantom steed. That spell isn't on the cleric list.
Archtyrant Terevoth 12-14-06, 01:29 PM	Yeah Owl's insight is crazy broke. I advise banning it outright or reducing its duration to 1 round/level at the very least.
Gnarl 12-14-06, 01:36 PM	Oh, Necrotic Empowerement is +8 enhancement? In that case: 18 (base) +5 (leveling) +5 inherent +10 insight (Owl's Insight) +8 enhancement (Necrotic Empowerment) = 46 -> +18 Wis Mod DC = Spell Level + 10 + Wis Mod = 37 That's about right but Owl's Insight is a druid spell only since spell compendium isn't it?
Archtyrant Terevoth 12-14-06, 02:10 PM	That's about right but Owl's Insight is a druid spell only since spell compendium isn't it? Yup. As if the druid needed more power.
Thomas_Covenant 12-14-06, 02:10 PM	That's about right but Owl's Insight is a druid spell only since spell compendium isn't it?Yeah, but it touch range, and good duration.
mathiu 12-14-06, 04:09 PM	This is why people need to take things with a grain of salt. Owl's Insight is broken. We have a term for things like that: Power Creep. Though in this case it's more Power Charge.
EyelessBeholder 12-14-06, 06:46 PM	Just so to clear the air ... it wasnt Owl Insight ... It was Necrotic Empowerment or something ... The Dark Cleric .... had it casted on him by some creature like a greater powered deity .... you know buffing him for this epic battle.
Father Dale 12-14-06, 09:00 PM	Here's the big problem with what happened: Wail of the Banshee Necromancy [Death, Sonic] Level: Death 9, Sor/Wiz 9 Components: V Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Area: One living creature/level within a 40-ft.-radius spread Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: Yes You emit a terrible scream that kills creatures that hear it (except for yourself ). Creatures closest to the point of origin are affected first. If the OP was 200ft away, hes not getting hit by this since that would be out of range. Unless the cleric was a 70th lvl caster. Did he have a rod of Greater Metamagic Enlarge? Did he have a Slaymate in tow? Now lets do some math. 18 Wis +5 levels +8 enhancement (Necrotic empowerment) +5 inherent =36 wisdom for +13 mod +2 for GSF (Necromancy) we get 10+13 Wis +2 GSF +9 spell level=34 Thats for a character optimized particularly for cleric Necromancy spells. However, even a suboptimal necromancer will probably be casting that spell at around a DC 30. Note that Necrotic empowerment is a personal spell and only lasts 1 rd/level. I assume he cast this during the fight? In any event, he probably had an item granting an enchancement bonus to wisdom (+4 or +6) so the spell probably wasn't doing a whole lot, since it wouldn't stack with that. Compared to Owl's Wisdom, it would increase the DC by 2, I don't think it would have mattered though. If you thought you were going to blast him with EBs thats crazy. You'll never take a high level cleric out that way. Even assuming you survived the 4 or 5 rounds it would take to get him to even start to worry about his hitpoints, he'll just cast heal and you can start all over again. (Even if you could maximize your EBs, it would take 3 of them to equal the hitpoints cured by a single heal spell.) As a rule of thumb, first thing to do when fighting a high level cleric is DISPEL MAGIC. or something similiar. Warlock's can easily access this via their item creation abilities. A scroll of greater dispell magic (or a staff) at your caster level wouldn't be hard to come by, and is essential for a warlock at that level. Or even a scroll of disjunction, which would have been preferable in that fight.
EyelessBeholder 12-14-06, 09:07 PM	Like i siad he rode up on some huge thing and just wailed me. As to my plan for killing him , i had a summoned creature who was basically my exact clone who was blasting with me , but my plan of action to kill him was a rod of cancelation inot a bag of holding , i was going to amartyr myself cause the word was being covered in darkness for we very much so ill prepaired for the rise of the lich king.
Merestil Haye 12-14-06, 09:45 PM	I think I've spotted one of the reasons wy the save was so high.He said he had some spell from libris mortis cast on him that raised his modifier like 10 points .... and then owls wisom, and not to mentionhe had a 21 wisdom to start with. .....The cleric has a starting Wis of 21 - this sounds to me like it's the character's base wisdom after level raises. On top of that he had Owl's Wisdom, (this could be a +6 enhancement item) and "some spell from libris mortis cast on him that raised his modifier like 10 points ..." The Necrotic Empowerment appears to have been applied not to the Wis core but to the Wis bonus. This essentially doubles it's effect. Not to mention that it's an enhancement and shouldn't stack with Owl's Wisdom - if they're being applied to different things they might have been allowed to stack. Wrongly so, I suspect everyone will agree. This makes sense of the DC of the save. Just to note - of course the OP should save on a natural 20. I'd guess that he rolled less than 20 though. If the OP was 200ft away, hes not getting hit by this since that would be out of range. Unless the cleric was a 70th lvl caster. Did he have a rod of Greater Metamagic Enlarge? Did he have a Slaymate in tow?This is a good point. If a spell affects an area, no point outside the maximum range of the spell is affected; if a 5th level Wizard casts a Fireball spell with its centre 600' away (maximum range) a creature 605' away, and right next to the fireball's ground zero is not in the affected area. The magic does not go beyond the maximum of the Range entry. At 18th level you'd have to be within 70' f the cleric to be affected. (As for the fact he could see his enemies, True Seeing allows the subject to see everything within 120'. It's possible that the DM overlooked this little limitation.) Me? I'd be asking the DM to consider rerunning it.
Thomas_Covenant 12-14-06, 10:28 PM	Me? I'd be asking the DM to consider rerunning it.A poorly equiped and prepared level 18 Warlock and 18 Fighter vs. an optimized, prepared, highly buffed level 18 Cleric? Why? I'd give excellent odds to anyone willing to bet against that Cleric. Not that a Warlock and Fighter couldn't team up to go Spellcaster slaying, they could. From the OP's description of tactics and equipment though....these two weren't ready.
Merestil Haye 12-14-06, 11:24 PM	A poorly equiped and prepared level 18 Warlock and 18 Fighter vs. an optimized, prepared, highly buffed level 18 Cleric? Why? I'd give excellent odds to anyone willing to bet against that Cleric.Me too. That's not the point - it's a point of principle. On the evidence we have, and assuming that the OP is not lying, the DM made at least one gross error in the cleric's favour, eliminating the warlock as a result. Short of evidence showing that the OP has misstated the situation, I feel that the battle should be run again.
concerro 12-15-06, 12:00 AM	The save is questionable, and if he was outside the 75 feet you should still be alive, and if he rode within 75 feet then he would have had to make a concentration check, which at 18 level would not have been difficult, so my question is what is the exact name of the spell he used from the SC and how far away was he?
Thomas_Covenant 12-15-06, 12:15 AM	It's worth checking that the save DC was right, but very well could be. Also that whatever movement spell actually allowed him to close the gap, still possible. It sounds like the Cleric seriously buffed for this fight though, so no real hope. He could well have used Miracle to simulate Owl's Insight. (a tad overkill, but a real option) He may have used caster level raising tricks (karma bead in CORE) to very legitimately get that DC to 37, even a fair bit higher. Worse, the OP implied this was run by another player which may mean true optimization, making all bets off.
Jancarius 12-15-06, 04:10 AM	I was under the impression the cleric was run as another player.
EyelessBeholder 12-15-06, 06:14 PM	The point was i just couldnt stand the fact This level 18 cleric closes in 200 ft ,then wail of banshee at me or atleast randomly where i thought i was for i was invisiable, and he had no detect invisiable. And he said roll a Fortitude save of 37 vs death .... i was like WTF .... Then he goes on about this buff from Labris Mortis .... and how it gave a +10 modifier to his DC. . .. i was jsut schoked and had to question how he could even hit me if i was invisiable i mean we were airborn and im sure from 200 ft away just seeing my blast hit something shouldnt give him enough of a odd to guess my location so easily. But as the posts go i did consiede my post due to the fact yes .... Me and the fighter didnt prepair and my friend (the evil cleric) spent about 2 straight days prepairing and won .... i was just mad cause the big bad battle took prepairing 3 1/2 hour real time and i died in 15 mins.
Ravenwild 12-17-06, 07:18 PM	I have a couple of comments. #1 someone mentioned using dispel magic, THANK YOU! I can't stand it when my players get their butts kicked because they refuse to memorize dispel magic. The cleric is the ULTIMATE buff caster and can make himself into a near unstoppable juggernaught if given enough time. A greater dispel taking out just half his spells can be huge. #2 I never understood the belief that high level casters can not be beaten or that it comes down to an initiative roll. As someone earlier mentioned a fighter can make himself very effective against spellcaster. Feats like mage slayer, pierce magical concealment, and pierce magical protection are all excellent feats to help in defeating spellcasters and the occult slayer prestige class is excellent for killing casters. A great fortitude save also makes him great against most instant death spells. Now back to the main point of this thread. Was getting killed by the wail of the banshee fair? I think so. A DC 37 save seems a bit excessive but being a Warlock, would a save of say DC 30 really have made much difference. You still would probably need a roll of 20. You being invisible probably had little effect on his ability to target you. If you are blasting away with EB your going to give away your approximate location, he can surely get a 40'R spell to encompass you without knowing where exactly you are. Thats like saying you can't hit a guy in the next room with a hand grenade because you can't actually see him. I'm also guessing it was probably pretty easy for the cleric to make the neccessary concentration check to ride up his mount in range then cast a spell. Preparation is key to fighting any significant battle. I'd only be mad about this if your DM blindsided you with this encounter never letting you know something like this was coming yet his NPC cleric had plenty of time to ready himself for this battle.