Bass lute of Animate Dead. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bass lute of Animate Dead. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bluebrush
01-21-05, 08:29 AM So, one of my fellow playings in one of my games is playing a 10th level bard and wants a kinda gloomy bard/necromancer motif.

He wants a bass lute which grants him the ability to animate dead 5 times a day and somehow reached the conclusion that it would cost him 16000gp.

From what I can tell, such an item would cost at leat 30000gp on top of the lute cost (Spell level 3 x caster level 5 x 2000) but that's without the cost of components.

The cost of the spell in onyxes varies depending on the HD of the undead created by the spell, so there's no flat component cost to use for the spell to base a price increase on. One possibility that occoured to me is that he could perhaps carry his own onyxes to use when he finds suitable corpses.

I think he'd probably be willing to give on the 5/day aspect, and he's only got limited funds to buy the lute. Should it incur costs any costs for not being a slotted item? Should the HD of undead controllable depend on the CL of the creator of the item?

Any other thoughts on this?
Derren S.
01-21-05, 08:33 AM If I remember right in Sunless Citadel there was a flute which could animate dead.
But I have no idea how it was priced and how often it worked.

Giving players such unlimited abilities is a rather bad thing to do compared to one time useable objects, so go with 30.000gc + additional costs with every use.
Bluebrush
01-21-05, 08:39 AM Ah yes, the nephilium whistle night caller. Though as I recall it only worked under specific circumstances. (Midnight, fresh grave, etc.) I think you could have two zombies at once, and that was it.

So you're suggesting I go with the "You need your own onyxes" idea. Think the 4HD per CL rule is good? He'd get up to 20HD of undead with such an item.
Seeker95
01-21-05, 03:49 PM Lute of Raise Dead 5/day costs half the price as the Lute of Raise Dead "use activated" or "at will":
5th level spell
9th level minimum caster level
Component: M (5,000gp)
Slotless item

[5 x 9 x 2000 + (100 x 5000)] x 2 = 1,180,000gp (unlimited)
[5 x 9 x 2000 + (50 x 5000)] x 2 = 590,000gp (5/day)

Your friend is ignoring the 5000gp material component costs.

********************

If you mean animate dead instead of raise dead, then it is:
spell level 3
minimum caster level 5
Component: M (25gp / HD)
Slotless item

[3 x 5 x 2000 + (100 x 25)] x 2 = 65,000gp (unlimited use)
[3 x 5 x 2000 + (50 x 25)] x 2 = 32,500gp (5/day)

And that assumes it can only animate dead of 1HD per corpse.

Spells with material components listed with gold piece values are extremely expensive to make.
steenan
01-21-05, 04:40 PM You've made an obvious error - you shouldn't multiply the base magic item cost (spell level * caster level * 2000) and component cost, but add them.

It gives 3*5*2000*2+50*25 = 61250 for a 5/day item, not some crazy millions. The material component is only 2% of the price.
Bluebrush
01-21-05, 05:21 PM Yes, I meant animate dead. Thanks for pointing that out.

And I think steenan is right. The example the SRD cites for an item with material components is a wand of stoneskin. A level 4 spell requiring 250gp of components. A wand costs 33500.

(4x7x750)+(50x250) = 33500.

Okay, so for the lute, I'm going to have to assume he doesn't want to be limited to wussy 2 HD undead since we're all 10th level.

So the base cost of the lute is 3*5*2000*2 = 60000 Well out of our 49000gp spending limit. Using lower charges per day it comes to 12000 per daily use, so he can probably afford one or two uses per day.

Then, we add in the material compoent cost
50*25*maximum HD of raised undead, or 1250 per HD maximum.

I think he should be able to choose if he wants to have components built in or if he wants to carry around a bag of onyx gems to use on corpses. It's a convenience + Long-term saving vs. initial investment issue.

Add in 100gp for a masterwork instrument for the final cost options.

100gp + 12000gp per daily use + (1250 * Max HD animateable option).

Sound about right to you guys? Any other thoughts.

Thanks to everyone for contributing, you've all been a great help. I'll show this thread to the GM so he can pass judgement on the item in question.
tarkin
01-21-05, 05:47 PM As a DM I always have a HUGE amount of suspicion of items with abut a single ability and :

only do it 1/day

do it at will.

Generally, if an item has but a single ability, I require it be created as a 3x per day item. I tell them making it a x2 or incures a 10% increase in price and a x1 incures a 25% increase in price, while an at will incures a 50% increase in price.

Multi-use items have an inbuilt price adjustment for the extra abilities, so it generally does not matter

But single use items that rarely if ever are desired more than once/day, and an at will item makes wands comparitevly a bad idea.
Seeker95
01-21-05, 06:11 PM Yup... I multiplied instead of added. Corrections being made.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bluebrush 01-21-05, 08:29 AM	So, one of my fellow playings in one of my games is playing a 10th level bard and wants a kinda gloomy bard/necromancer motif. He wants a bass lute which grants him the ability to animate dead 5 times a day and somehow reached the conclusion that it would cost him 16000gp. From what I can tell, such an item would cost at leat 30000gp on top of the lute cost (Spell level 3 x caster level 5 x 2000) but that's without the cost of components. The cost of the spell in onyxes varies depending on the HD of the undead created by the spell, so there's no flat component cost to use for the spell to base a price increase on. One possibility that occoured to me is that he could perhaps carry his own onyxes to use when he finds suitable corpses. I think he'd probably be willing to give on the 5/day aspect, and he's only got limited funds to buy the lute. Should it incur costs any costs for not being a slotted item? Should the HD of undead controllable depend on the CL of the creator of the item? Any other thoughts on this?
Derren S. 01-21-05, 08:33 AM	If I remember right in Sunless Citadel there was a flute which could animate dead. But I have no idea how it was priced and how often it worked. Giving players such unlimited abilities is a rather bad thing to do compared to one time useable objects, so go with 30.000gc + additional costs with every use.
Bluebrush 01-21-05, 08:39 AM	Ah yes, the nephilium whistle night caller. Though as I recall it only worked under specific circumstances. (Midnight, fresh grave, etc.) I think you could have two zombies at once, and that was it. So you're suggesting I go with the "You need your own onyxes" idea. Think the 4HD per CL rule is good? He'd get up to 20HD of undead with such an item.
Seeker95 01-21-05, 03:49 PM	Lute of Raise Dead 5/day costs half the price as the Lute of Raise Dead "use activated" or "at will": 5th level spell 9th level minimum caster level Component: M (5,000gp) Slotless item [5 x 9 x 2000 + (100 x 5000)] x 2 = 1,180,000gp (unlimited) [5 x 9 x 2000 + (50 x 5000)] x 2 = 590,000gp (5/day) Your friend is ignoring the 5000gp material component costs. ******************** If you mean animate dead instead of raise dead, then it is: spell level 3 minimum caster level 5 Component: M (25gp / HD) Slotless item [3 x 5 x 2000 + (100 x 25)] x 2 = 65,000gp (unlimited use) [3 x 5 x 2000 + (50 x 25)] x 2 = 32,500gp (5/day) And that assumes it can only animate dead of 1HD per corpse. Spells with material components listed with gold piece values are extremely expensive to make.
steenan 01-21-05, 04:40 PM	You've made an obvious error - you shouldn't multiply the base magic item cost (spell level * caster level * 2000) and component cost, but add them. It gives 3520002+5025 = 61250 for a 5/day item, not some crazy millions. The material component is only 2% of the price.
Bluebrush 01-21-05, 05:21 PM	Yes, I meant animate dead. Thanks for pointing that out. And I think steenan is right. The example the SRD cites for an item with material components is a wand of stoneskin. A level 4 spell requiring 250gp of components. A wand costs 33500. (4x7x750)+(50x250) = 33500. Okay, so for the lute, I'm going to have to assume he doesn't want to be limited to wussy 2 HD undead since we're all 10th level. So the base cost of the lute is 3520002 = 60000 Well out of our 49000gp spending limit. Using lower charges per day it comes to 12000 per daily use, so he can probably afford one or two uses per day. Then, we add in the material compoent cost 5025maximum HD of raised undead, or 1250 per HD maximum. I think he should be able to choose if he wants to have components built in or if he wants to carry around a bag of onyx gems to use on corpses. It's a convenience + Long-term saving vs. initial investment issue. Add in 100gp for a masterwork instrument for the final cost options. 100gp + 12000gp per daily use + (1250 Max HD animateable option). Sound about right to you guys? Any other thoughts. Thanks to everyone for contributing, you've all been a great help. I'll show this thread to the GM so he can pass judgement on the item in question.
tarkin 01-21-05, 05:47 PM	As a DM I always have a HUGE amount of suspicion of items with abut a single ability and : only do it 1/day do it at will. Generally, if an item has but a single ability, I require it be created as a 3x per day item. I tell them making it a x2 or incures a 10% increase in price and a x1 incures a 25% increase in price, while an at will incures a 50% increase in price. Multi-use items have an inbuilt price adjustment for the extra abilities, so it generally does not matter But single use items that rarely if ever are desired more than once/day, and an at will item makes wands comparitevly a bad idea.
Seeker95 01-21-05, 06:11 PM	Yup... I multiplied instead of added. Corrections being made.