Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Joseph_Silver 08-25-06, 04:32 PM	Using only the core rulebooks, here is the spell repertoire that I've come up with for a level 20 battle sorcerer (variant sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana). Level 0 1. Prestidigitation 2. Arcane Mark 3. Detect Magic 4. Read Magic 5. Light 6. Message 7. Detect Poison 8. Mage Hand Level 1 1. True Strike - Very good with Power Attack. 2. Ray of Enfeeblement - When empowered, it can take out heavily armored opponents. 3. Identify - Lets me find out what my items do. 4. Feather Fall - So I don't die from falling damage. Level 2 1. See Invisibility - So I won't be helpless against foes with Greater Invisibility. 2. Mirror Image - Soaks up damage. 3. Rope Trick - Lets me rest safely outdoors. 4. Bull's Strength - +2 to attack and damage. Nice! Level 3 1. Haste - Excellent combat bonuses. 2. Arcane Sight - Lets me find out who is the most powerful spellcaster so I can attack him first. 3. Suggestion - "Drop your weapon and surrender!" Level 4 1. Dimensional Anchor - Perfect for DMs who always teleport their BBEGs when the PCs get to them. 2. Dimension Door - Good battlefield mobility spell. Also good for escaping. 3. Stoneskin - Damage reduction for the win. Level 5 1. Overland Flight - So I will not be helpless against flying opponents. 2. Telekinesis - Good for disarming, tripping, and grappling. 3. Prying Eyes - Good for scouting. Level 6 1. Antimagic Field - Against full casters, this means certain death (for them). 2. Greater Heroism - Very nice buff. Level 7 1. Power Word Blind - Prevents enemy spellcasters from targeting you with spells. Also useful against anyone with 200 or less HP. 2. Limited Wish - A very versatile spell with a not-so-painful XP cost. Level 8 1. Power Word Stun - Useful against anyone with 150 HP or less. Almost guaranteed to work against enemy mages. 2. Mind Blank - So Power Words will not harm me. Level 9 1. Power Word Kill - Instantly kill anyone with 100 HP or less. Good finishing move. 2. Foresight - Lets you know what will happen ahead of time. Any suggestions? I am limiting myself to spells in the core rulebooks only, by the way.
tarkin 08-25-06, 05:24 PM	Core only, here is what I would say. Level 0 Take Dancing Lights instead of Light. As a battle sorceror you want to light up the ENEMEY, not yourself. Level 1 Identify is not worth it. Pay someone else to do this or get a scroll, it is going to cost you 100 gp anyway. replace with the standard Magic Missile, the never fail, always hits, even incorporeal ghosts spell. Level 2 Consider taking Schorching Ray and/or False Life instead of Rope Trick and/Bull Strength. Rope Trick does not let you bring a bag of holding inside it. Bull Strength does not stack with Gauntlets of Ogre Power or a Belt of Giant Strength. Level 3 Consider Vampiric Touch instead of Suggestion, particularly if you did NOT take False Life. Healing is important. Level 4 Resonable set, but no Enervation? It is a wizard killer. I would consider giving up Dim Door for it. Level 5 OK, but no Teleport, and no PlaneShift or Greater Teleport? Level 6 You are a wizard yourself. You do NOT cast Anti-Magic Field unless you are so dead it doesn't matter. Go back and take Enervation or Feeblemind if you want to take out casters. Replace Anti-Magic with either Acid Fog (they can't move AND they take damage. he he he he). Greater Heroism i Level 7 OK spell, but you don't have ANY of the three major movers - teleport/plane shift/Greater Teleport. I suspect you will be spending those 300 xp for Limited Wish to do a regular Teleport a LOT of the time. Level 8 You have a lot of Power Word spells already, consider switching Stun for Iron Body, or maybe keeping Stun and trading Power Word Blind for PlaneShift. Level 9 Foresight instead of ShapeChange or Time Stop? No way. Forget about the 6th level spell Foresight that someone turned upside down and thought was a 9th level spell. The top core 9th are Astral Projection (can't be killed - DM's may have to house rule to limit it), Shape Change, and Time Stop. M. Disjunction is also good, if your DM does not have the standard minor artifacts around. Next is Meteor Swarm. Way down at the bottom is Foresight.
Joseph_Silver 08-25-06, 10:46 PM	Can you heal yourself using Vampiric Touch? If I recall correctly, it only gives temporary HP, which goes away after one hour.
CaoSlayer 08-26-06, 09:34 AM	IMO time stop it is must have, this allows you to buff yourself to max power in a round, very powerful thing.
Joseph_Silver 08-26-06, 11:48 AM	Level 0 1. Prestidigitation 2. Arcane Mark 3. Detect Magic 4. Read Magic 5. Light 6. Message 7. Detect Poison 8. Mage Hand I prefer Light to Dancing Lights. No change here. Level 1 1. True Strike 2. Ray of Enfeeblement 3. Identify 4. Feather Fall No, I don't think I'll take Magic Missile. I want to focus on combat instead of direct damage spells. Level 2 1. See Invisibility 2. Mirror Image 3. Rope Trick 4. Bull's Strength -> False Life You're right. Bull's Strength doesn't stack with items that give enhancement bonuses to strength. I'll take False Life instead. That's 11 to 20 HP for a normal False Life, and 16 to 30 HP for an Empowered False Life. I won't take Scorching Ray, though. Like I said above, I will focus on combat instead of direct damage spells. Level 3 1. Haste 2. Arcane Sight 3. Suggestion -> Fly Although I really, really like Suggestion (which is wonderful for roleplaying purposes), I'm replacing it with Fly (note that I took out Overland Flight below). Fly is useful for combat, and can actually be cast on allies (unlike Overland Flight). Level 4 1. Dimensional Anchor -> Enervation 2. Dimension Door 3. Stoneskin Dimensional Anchor only works against teleporting opponents. Enervation works against all opponents, and has a chance of draining their teleportation ability. Level 5 1. Overland Flight -> Teleport 2. Telekinesis 3. Prying Eyes Overland Flight is a spell that you cast only once per day, so it doesn't work well with the sorcerer's ability to cast spells over and over again. I've replaced it with Teleport, which actually works on allies. If I need to teleport really long distances, I can just cast it multiple times. Is it okay to have both Teleport and Dimension Door? It seems to me that Teleport can work as a substitute for Dimension Door, so I can choose another 4th-level spell instead. Level 6 1. Antimagic Field -> Greater Dispel Magic 2. Greater Heroism Acid Fog also works against me, unless I take Draconic Resistance for a dragon which breathes acid. Draconic Resistance isn't core, unfortunately. I've replaced Antimagic Field with Greater Dispel Magic. Greater Dispel Magic lets me take out my enemy's buffs, Level 7 1. Power Word Blind 2. Limited Wish No changes to this spell level. Power Word Blind can affect a lot more creatures than the other Power Words, so it stays in. Also, I don't plan on Plane Shifting a lot, so I won't take Plane Shift. Level 8 1. Power Word Stun -> Maze 2. Mind Blank At this level, getting stunned effectively means certain death. On the other hand, it doesn't always work. I'm taking Maze instead, which takes out one opponent for a while. The target does get to make a DC 20 intelligence check every round; if he takes 20, he'll get out in two minutes. If his intelligence is 9 or lower, he'll get out in 10 minutes. :devil: Level 9 1. Power Word Kill -> Shapechange 2. Foresight -> Time Stop Power Word Kill is difficult to use properly, so I'm taking it out. About Foresight, yeah, it doesn't really look that powerful if you read the description carefully. So I guess I'll go for Shapechange and Time Stop.
Joseph_Silver 08-29-06, 01:48 PM	:bump: Can someone please critique my new spell selection?
Puca 08-29-06, 02:07 PM	Level 1 1. True Strike 2. Ray of Enfeeblement 3. Identify 4. Feather Fall No, I don't think I'll take Magic Missile. I want to focus on combat instead of direct damage spells.Im not sure what you mean, but regardless of whether or not you take Magic Missile, what Tarkin said about Identify is still valid. Personally, Id take Grease. Level 2 1. See Invisibility 2. Mirror Image 3. Rope Trick 4. Bull's Strength -> False LifeI also dont like Rope Trick. (Staying safe isnt fun, totally subjective I know). I would take Major Image. A good illusion can be invaluable. I like your level-three choices. Level 4 1. Dimensional Anchor -> Enervation 2. Dimension Door 3. StoneskinI love Dimension Door. I dont love Stoneskin. I know its great, but at such a high material cost, I know Im not going to use it except in special cases, and if thats the case, why not get a scroll? Where is your Evards? I know you want to focus on combat, but a battlefield control spell lets you direct the battle. And when it comes to battlefield control, Black Tentacles. Your fifth and up all look pretty good to me.
Joseph_Silver 08-29-06, 04:01 PM	Sorry, I ran out of space for Evard's. It's a great spell, but I really don't like how it affects everyone. I don't want to take Extraordinary Spell Aim just so I won't be affected by one of my spells. Also, Evard's Black Tentacles is best used with area of effect spells like Fireball, Cloudkill, and the like, none of which I have in my spell selection. Black Tentacles Conjuration (Creation) Level: Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: 20-ft.-radius spread Duration: 1 round/level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell conjures a field of rubbery black tentacles, each 10 feet long. These waving members seem to spring forth from the earth, floor, or whatever surface is underfoot—including water. They grasp and entwine around creatures that enter the area, holding them fast and crushing them with great strength. Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check, opposed by the grapple check of the tentacles. Treat the tentacles attacking a particular target as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to your caster level +8. The tentacles are immune to all types of damage. Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage. The tentacles continue to crush the opponent until the spell ends or the opponent escapes. Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles. Even creatures who aren’t grappling with the tentacles may move through the area at only half normal speed. Material Component A piece of tentacle from a giant octopus or a giant squid. Anyway, moving on... I downloaded a collection of PDFs from CrystalKeep.com. It contains a boatload of official spells, feats, classes, etc. from Dragon Magazine, the Complete series, the Races of series, the core rulebooks, etc. My problem is that there is too much information in the PDFs. What good spells should I be aware of, aside from the totally broken Wraithstrike?
CaoSlayer 08-29-06, 06:46 PM	It is very important to take a level 3 or lower direct damage or effect spell like magic missiles, scorching ray or vampire touch... The reason? Spell storing weapon, it is a very nice weapon enchantment that can help you to deal an extra punch in your first blow on a melee... if your gm it is generous and follow the raw, you can every store metamagiked stuff on the weapon (if the level dont raises), a maximized vampire touch in the weapon it is a win/win selection, in your first blow you will both deal up to +60 damage and get 60 temporal hp.
Osedox 08-29-06, 07:22 PM	Drop Stoneskin, its a total waste of time. By the time you can actually afford it, most powerful enemies will be able to have adamantium weapons, or just make you cry anyways. Go for polymorph, and then turn into something like a firebolg or mayby a hydra. From the Complete Warrior definatly get Arcane Strike as one of your feats.
Joseph_Silver 08-29-06, 10:23 PM	Drop Stoneskin, its a total waste of time. By the time you can actually afford it, most powerful enemies will be able to have adamantium weapons, or just make you cry anyways. Go for polymorph, and then turn into something like a firebolg or mayby a hydra. From the Complete Warrior definatly get Arcane Strike as one of your feats. I can't turn into a hydra because hyrdas are Huge. Polymorph only lets you choose creatures within one size category, in this case, I can only Polymorph into a Small, Medium, or Large creature. Hm... Is Stoneskin really that bad? If so, I will replace it with Polymorph. I'd like to get Vampiric Touch, but unfortunately, I can only have three level 3 spells, all of which work against any opponent (Vampiric Touch doesn't work on things that aren't alive). If I should get Vampiric Touch, which level 3 spell will I give up?
Osedox 08-29-06, 10:36 PM	I can't turn into a hydra because hyrdas are Huge. Polymorph only lets you choose creatures within one size category, in this case, I can only Polymorph into a Small, Medium, or Large creature.I have yet to find an official ruling on this, but most people seem to ignore that caveat from Alter Self. If your Dm is a rules lawyer, then he might not let you get away with this, but it never hurts to try;) (you could always just drop Identify, which is a retarded spell, and get enlarge person, enlarge person+polymorph=hydra) . If i were going to drop a 3rd level spell (and I would) then I would drop Arcane Sight. It is handy as hell, but I could definatly see you getting more use out of Vampiric Touch. Detect Magic will function just as adequatly as Arcane Sight in most cases, it just takes a bit longer.
CaoSlayer 08-30-06, 03:55 AM	umm, arcane sight it is the less useful spell of the three ones... also at second level, you have see invisibility, isnt a bad spell but you could considere glitterdust since have a similar use and it is a multitargeted blindness. Ever with the anti-invisibility effect glitterdust have the advantage that your allies will be also able to spot the enemy while with see invisibility have the advantage that you dont need to know where the foe is.
crowclub 08-30-06, 04:27 AM	Rules wise, you CAN turn into creatures from any size category with Polymorph. Yes, that makes it broken so I would limit it as you suggest which makes it a great spell instead of a broken one. If you can use the Spell Compendium then have a look at... Benign Transposition Ruin Delver's Fortune Any Orb spell
tarkin 08-30-06, 11:09 AM	crowclub, you are giving an OPINION, not a fact. It is HEAVILY debated. if you read the actual core books, it says as Alter Self. Alter Self has a limit on size. Polymorph is such a screwed up spell they keep trying to fix it. Some people claim that one or more of the fixes removed that. Others don't. So if you think that it needs limitations, don't go around telling everyone that the rules say it doesn't have them.
crowclub 08-30-06, 01:21 PM	crowclub, you are giving an OPINION, not a fact. It is HEAVILY debated. if you read the actual core books, it says as Alter Self. Alter Self has a limit on size. Polymorph is such a screwed up spell they keep trying to fix it. Some people claim that one or more of the fixes removed that. Others don't. So if you think that it needs limitations, don't go around telling everyone that the rules say it doesn't have them. Get your facts right dude. This link will take you to the official rules for Polymorph. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a I refer you to the line I have copy/pasted below The assumed form's size can be anything from Fine to Colossal. The kind of creature you choose for the assumed form determines the size. The subject becomes the same size as an average member of its kind. For example, if you turn the subject into a troll, the subject becomes size Large, which is the standard size for a troll. That's fairly clear to me dude. Will you be as quick to apologize as you are to criticize?
Osedox 08-30-06, 01:32 PM	Well im glad there is finaly an answer, it has been a point of contention for quite some time. And straight from the horses mouth too, Skip is one of the head honchos, no?
Joseph_Silver 08-30-06, 03:41 PM	Level 0 1. Prestidigitation 2. Arcane Mark 3. Detect Magic 4. Read Magic 5. Light 6. Message 7. Detect Poison 8. Mage Hand Level 1 1. True Strike 2. Ray of Enfeeblement 3. Identify 4. Feather Fall Level 2 1. See Invisibility 2. Mirror Image 3. Rope Trick 4. False Life Level 3 1. Haste 2. Arcane Sight 3. Fly Level 4 1. Enervation 2. Dimension Door 3. Stoneskin -> Polymorph Okay, I've changed Stoneskin to Polymorph. I guess I can turn into a hydra and make the party fighter cry (8 attacks at caster level 8). Level 5 1. Teleport 2. Telekinesis 3. Prying Eyes Level 6 1. Greater Dispel Magic 2. Greater Heroism Level 7 1. Power Word Blind 2. Limited Wish Level 8 1. Maze 2. Mind Blank Level 9 1. Shapechange 2. Time Stop
Osedox 08-30-06, 05:22 PM	Once you get Shapechange, seriously consider dropping Polymorph, but up until then it still rocks.
Joseph_Silver 08-30-06, 05:49 PM	Okay, I think my spell selection is okay... Now what about the feats? I've come up with two possible feat progressions, but I'm not sure how to finish them... Core + Unearthed Arcana H Improved Initiative 1 Power Attack 3 Cleave 6 Extend Spell 9 Empower Spell 12 ? 15 ? 18 ? Core + Unearthed Arcana + Complete Arcane H Draconic Heritage 1 Draconic Breath 3 Draconic Resistance 6 Draconic Power 9 Draconic Legacy 12 ? 15 ? 18 ?
crowclub 08-30-06, 06:09 PM	Draconic Power is okay, but I'd consider Draconic Toughness too. What Bloodline are you looking at? I like Crystal for Diplomacy and the Spells are good too.
Joseph_Silver 08-30-06, 07:17 PM	I'm going for the silver (Joseph Silver) dragon bloodline. And my character will be called Argent Gish. "Argent" means silver, and you know what "gish" means. Gish. Argent Gish. :D Okay, so that was a lame James Bond impersonation.
crowclub 08-31-06, 02:30 PM	Have a look at Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon it's some good!
Puca 08-31-06, 02:54 PM	Why would you take Draconinc Power? It helps with spells associated with your energy type, but you have no spells associated with that energy type?
Joseph_Silver 08-31-06, 03:21 PM	Draconic Power increases my caster level by 1 for all my spells. It's like a free Ring of Arcane Might. It also increases the DC of my [Cold] spells, but since I don't have such spells, I'm taking it mainly for the caster level increase, and because it lets me qualify for Draconic Legacy (it requires four draconic feats to qualify).
Puca 08-31-06, 03:32 PM	I thought it increased the caster level of only your [cold] spells. But I dont have to book in front of me.
Joseph_Silver 08-31-06, 05:49 PM	Draconic Power [Draconic] You have greater power manipulating the energies of your heritage. Prerequisite: Draconic Heritage Benefit: Your caster level increases by 1, and you add 1 to the save DC of all arcane spells with the energy descriptor of the same energy type as determined by your draconic heritage. Special: If the Energy Substitution feat is used to modify a spell, this feat will work if the new type of energy matches the energy type of your draconic heritage. Now that you mention it, it does seem like Draconic Power only my [Cold] spells. However, it also seems that it works with other spells, because there is a comma between the "Your caster level increases by 1" and "you add 1 to the save DC... with the energy descriptor of... your draconic heritage". What do you think?
crowclub 08-31-06, 06:12 PM	Both making your spells "stronger" and "harder" to resist, fall into the general catagory of Power. I think it does both, but as usual it could have been written better!
Joseph_Silver 08-31-06, 08:24 PM	Anyway, if it only applies to [Cold] spells, I'll take Draconic Claw instead, so I'll never be without a weapon.
scottt 08-31-06, 08:41 PM	I actually thinking of swapping a fighter 6 to wizard recently (low magic campaign, wanted to create magic items) Here's my choices if they help... Specialise in Transmutation (spurning Enchantment and Necromancy) Spells at 9th level Wizard 0th - 4 (1) * Detect Magic Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.(Div) * Read Magic Read scrolls and spellbooks. (Div) * Acid Splash Orb deals 1d3 acid damage. (Conj) * Ray Of Frost Ray deals 1d3 cold damage. (Evoc) + Mending Makes minor repairs on an object. (Trans) 1st - 4 (1+1) * Shield Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles. (Abj) * True Strike +20 on your next attack roll. (Div) * Enlarge Person Humanoid creature doubles in size. (Trans) * Expeditious Retreat Your speed increases by 30 ft. (Trans) # Feather Fall Objects or creatures fall slowly. (Trans) + Magic Weapon Weapon gains +1 bonus. (Trans) 2nd - 4 (1+1) * Protection From Arrows Subject immune to most ranged attacks. (Abj) * Resist Energy Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type. (Abj) * Scorching Ray Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 ray/four levels (max 3).(Evoc) * Invisibility Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks. (Ill) # Mirror Image Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per three levels, max 8).(Ill) + Spider Climb Grants ability to walk on walls and ceilings. (Trans) 3rd - 3 (1+1) * Protection From Energy Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy. (Abj) # Blacklight 20-ft. radius of supernatural darkness you can see through. (Evoc) * Blink You randomly vanish and reappear for 1 round/level. (Trans) + Keen Edge Doubles normal weapon's threat range. (Trans) * Magic Weapon, Greater +1 bonus/four levels (max +5). (Trans) 4th - 2 (1) * Stoneskin Ignore 10 points of damage per attack. (Abj) * Black Tentacles Tentacles grapple all within 20 ft. spread. (Conj) + Mnemonic Enhancer Wizard only. Prepares extra spells or retains one just cast.(Trans) 5th - 1 (1) * Interposing Hand Hand provides cover against one opponent. (Evoc) + Fabricate Transforms raw materials into finished items. (Trans) Shield spell at first level is very good if you are using a weapon 2-handed or TWF. Enlarge person is also good if you want to use improved tripping as a tactic. If you don't spurn Necromancy you should take Ray of Enfeeblement and Touch of Idiocy for crippling enemy fighters and spell casters respectively. (mmmm no saving throw!) Good luck!
Joseph_Silver 09-01-06, 01:29 PM	Um, this thread is for battle sorcerers, not wizards.
Puca 09-01-06, 02:02 PM	Now that you mention it, it does seem like Draconic Power only my [Cold] spells. However, it also seems that it works with other spells, because there is a comma between the "Your caster level increases by 1" and "you add 1 to the save DC... with the energy descriptor of... your draconic heritage". What do you think?The comma 100% supports your previous interpretation, but the short description ("You have greater power manipulating the energies of your heritage") seems to limit it it, at least as far as we can infer the intent, to increasing just [cold] spells caster-level. Thats probably why I had the interpretation I did. DMs call I supposed. Id limit it.
Joseph_Silver 09-01-06, 03:06 PM	Since the flavor text says that it only affects my [Cold] spells, I'm now definitely dropping it in favor of Draconic Claw (so I won't be without a weapon).
Joseph_Silver 09-04-06, 11:53 AM	Okay, here's my final spell selection. Level 0 1. Prestidigitation 2. Arcane Mark 3. Detect Magic 4. Read Magic 5. Light 6. Message 7. Detect Poison 8. Mage Hand Level 1 1. True Strike 2. Ray of Enfeeblement 3. Identify -> Magic Missile 4. Feather Fall I've decided to take out Identify for Magic Missile. Level 2 1. See Invisibility 2. Mirror Image 3. Rope Trick 4. False Life Level 3 1. Haste 2. Arcane Sight 3. Fly Level 4 1. Enervation 2. Dimension Door 3. Polymorph Level 5 1. Teleport 2. Telekinesis 3. Prying Eyes Level 6 1. Greater Dispel Magic 2. Greater Heroism Level 7 1. Power Word Blind 2. Limited Wish Level 8 1. Maze 2. Mind Blank Level 9 1. Shapechange 2. Time Stop