Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mregecko 04-30-07, 09:36 AM	So... Question for the boards (obviously). I've never played an Arcane type in 3.5. I just got to 7th level with my wizard5/wildmage2, and our GM has told me that we're going to need a good amount of battlefield control spells to make it much further. What 2 spells should I take from PHB/Spell Compendium (our two options)? I'm a transmuter specialist, so obviously one of my 2 spells has to be transmutation. I have been thinking either Mass Enlarge Person or Polymorph... We have a lot of fighter types, so Enlarge could be nice. But of course Polymorph rocks too. My other thought was Evard's -- Wall of Fire/Ice seem somewhat ineffectual to me (little damage). The third option was Solid Fog, but that seems somewhat detrimental to my own party as well (not that Evard's isn't, but you can see in at least). Any other suggestions are very much so desired! -- Mr. E Gecko
runestar 04-30-07, 10:24 AM	I think freedom of movement should cancel out solid fog. So solid fog the enemies, cast evard's tentacles, freedom of movement the fighter, and have him wade into combat. It is very resource intensive though, and best saved for those final faceoffs with the BBEG and his cronies. A titanic combination of solid fog and cloudkill will do in most foes. Throw in evard's tentacles and possible mass reduce person for sheer overkill. In the meanwhile, you may want to consider lower lv spells like grease, glitterdust, web, slow and the like.
TheGogmagog 04-30-07, 11:31 AM	I like solid fog after playing a warmage. You hit half your opponents with solid fog, the party kills the exposed half while the others slowly work thier way out. Evards black tenticals isn't that great with the strictest interpretation (that you save when the spell is cast and at entering the effect, but not after moving around inside the effect). Depending on your DM. Wall of stone is good, as is wall of force, there is also transmute earth to mud. Some tanglefoot bags wouldn't hurt either, half opponents movement 1d4 rounds even if they make thier save.
tarkin 04-30-07, 12:05 PM	I have found that Wall of fire is usually a very good battlefield control spell. It has the nice effect that it is one sided. You stand on the safe side, having the nasty side facing the bad guys.
Iver Gearsham 04-30-07, 02:52 PM	I have found that Wall of fire is usually a very good battlefield control spell. It has the nice effect that it is one sided. You stand on the safe side, having the nasty side facing the bad guys.Absolutly also check the circle option suround your party and have the burning going out ward that stops arrows coming in and your melee foes have to stand in the heat. Shrink Item can be a great battlefield controller With a Ring of Minor Spell Storing you cast the spells in they put on the ring Shrink an Object like a Wall with Arrow slits they take off the ring and hand it back you cast again hand it back or to another PC and they Shrink rinse repeat and now all your party can place or command SI objects and form hard points anywhere to fight from. I think the ability to gain +4 to AC and +4 to reflex saves with Evasion for every party member is worth 18,000 gp.
robitusinz 04-30-07, 03:38 PM	Summon Monster 3. Hear me out: You can summon 1d4+1 of the creatures in the Summon Monster I list. Let's use Celestial Dogs, as an example. When you summon these 1d4+1 creatures, you place them wherever you want, within the range limit of the spell. If you have say, 3 of your party members in battle, you have a very good chance of being able to give each one of them their own personal creature that will a) help them flank, b) can use the "assist other" action to grant them an extra +2 to their attack bonus, c) will take up an "attack" from some NPC to get rid of them...hey, if an Ogre's whacking you for 40 points, having that Ogre whack a Dog instead of you is like casting a Cure Serious Wounds, and d) if placed strategically, the critters can provide cover, or just be obstacles in the path of enemies. Truthfully, using SM3 in this way is an abuse of the abstract D&D system, but hey, you do what you gotta do. :D
Puca 04-30-07, 03:46 PM	d) if placed strategically, the critters can provide cover, or just be obstacles in the path of enemies.Good advice. Enemies cant charge if there are dogs in the way. In addition, a moving opponent might provoke attacks of opportunity from a couple of them. (They might not hit anything considering your level, but intelligent opponents still might not risk it.) Summon Monster spells offer a great deal of versatility. Another versatile spell is something like Minor Image. (Which two schools are barred for you, by the way?) Minor Image is really whatever you need it to be. And until they interact with it, they will assume it to be real.
BW0222 04-30-07, 06:01 PM	mregecko, Battlefield control spells typically have two purposes: 1. To separate folks such that you don't have to fight an entire group at one time, and 2. To delay folks such that you can pre-buff or attack them from a distance with spells or ranged weapons. If you think web or entangle... it affects an area, traps some for a while, but a few get free (or are outside the AoE). You can then deal with smaller numbers who might escape, heal up, and then go after the next ones to get free. Alternately, you can force ranged combat on creatures not optimized for it. Enlarge, polymorph, etc. are not great battlefield control spells. While they might subject folks to AoO, they don't prevent them from 'ganging' up on folks nor do they keep you out of melee with nasty folks long enough to buff or weaken them with ranged attacks. This normally leaves a few types of spells. Wall Spells I exclude wall of fire from this category, and include only those which physically stop (or nearly stop) all movement -- wall of ice, wall of thorns, wall of stone, etc. Such spells can essentially split a group and while most folks can break out in several round, it buys you time while you can focus on a smaller number of creatures. However, they can be annoying in that they may prevent you from getting to the bad guys either and limit ranged attacks while buying buffing time. Wall of thorns is likely the best, for druids. Wall of ice or wall of stone for wizards. Web, Entangle, Solid Fog, Plant Growth, etc. Likely your best best choices as these virtually stop foes for significant amounts of time. For wizards solid fog is a good spell, but web is typically Vision/Fog/Slowing Spells Various types of spells such as obscuring mist, fog cloud, stinking cloud, grease, sleet storm, slow, etc. which slow approaching creatures. Some limit vision, some slow movement, etc. These aren't as good as the second group, but they often do damage or disable folks besides slowing them. Damaging Spells This includes spike growth, wall of fire, ice storm, evards, swarm spells, even mind fog and others, etc. These usually don't directly stop of limit movement, but cause sufficient damage (or serious disability) such that many creatures won't enter the area. They can buy you some time. However, most spells don't deal enough damage for their APL to stop serious opponents. IMO, at best, they might buy you a round or so while folks decide if it is worth it. Often just tosing up a fireball is as effective since they are going to run through the area anyway. Evards may be the best of the bunch as it is better at actually slowing something. Summoning Spells The idea of summoning large numbers of creatures (actually 2-5) and placing them in a line is typically a poor-man's battlefield control. The problems with such things is that they are typically can't take many hits when confronted by creatures many many CRs above them (2-5 wolves won't stop a pair of ogres for long), can be protected against (protection from evil), and are often fodder for AoO spells, multi-attack, or cleaving creatures. Limited range and full-round casting time is often an issue -- typically, you want control spells up before folks have a chance to close. However, they are multi-purpose in that they can be used offensively, to harrass folks in the rear, bodyguard weaker folks, etc. Illusions Depending upon the type, these aren't bad. A shadow evocation of a wall of ice is almost as good as the real one. A shadow conjuration of stinking cloud or an silent image of a grease area or a rust monster might actually serve a similar purpose. i.e. folks will stay out of it -- and if they don't typically you didn't expect the spell to actually stop them anyway. Because they are multi-purpose, they can be used in a pinch for battlefield control. IMO, your best option is to go for one of the 'wall' spells (wall of ice or wall of stone), one lower level spell from the web/entangle/solid fog group, and then add a couple from different backup groups -- summoning, damaging, or illusion. Try picking complementary spells -- say wall of fire and summoning creatures immune to fire, or web followed by stinking cloud, etc. In your big combats, use your wall spell. In others, start with one of the spells and then toss in it's matching spell if things look tough.
Sephiroth Do'Urden 05-06-07, 06:42 PM	What about Nightmare terrain? Looks preatty good on Paper but I have yeet to make use of it...